<p>We know several kids that were accepted at top ivy schools under EA or ED and several who were deferred. Every kid that was accepted has some athletic EC on their record. Those that didn't, were either deferred or outright rejected. Has anyone else noticed this trend?</p>
<p>I am raising this because there was a post noting that, at one time, ivy league schools wanted "attractive people." I was wondering if their thought process was, "athletic kids must be in good shape and trim."</p>
<p>I should note that the accepted kids all had very good GPAs and SATs but not necessarily better than those that were deferred.</p>
<p>Does athletics play a huge role in Ivy acceptances? If you're a recruited athlete--absolutely. Two good books by William Bowen (and coauthors) on the subject are THE GAME OF LIFE and RECLAIMING THE GAME. The statistics he compiles are stunning.</p>
<p>Most of the ones that I know who got into top schools were NOT specifically recruited athletes for specific teams. Their either played on a varsity team or on high school intermural teams, although one was well ranked in swimming.</p>
<p>last year, our school got three into Columbia: 2 ED, and 1 RD. One of the ED'ers was recruited, and the RD'er was recruited. The other ED'er was top of the class.</p>
<p>This year, however, the early admits to the top 10 appear to be more bwrk's (one or two varsity athletes, but not even close to being recruitable), while the international science award winner was deferred at MIT.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, frankly, I will be a bit dissappointed if the key hook to getting admitted to an ivy school or other top schools were athletics! To me this is very shallow; however, I guess having winning teams is a big deal to these schools. Maybe they seem to emphasize the term "league" in ivy league more than most people realize.</p>
<p>When it comes to athletes at the Ivies, comments typically include the veiled implication that the students ONLY made it because of the hook. One reality is that there are many athletes playing competitive sports at the most selective schools -see Ivies or Williams. Comparatively, you will hear a lot fewer negative comments about students who have different talents. </p>
<p>When it comes to sports recruiting, I think that more attention should be devoted at the schools where athletes are recruited without much consideration of their academic abilities. The Ivy League and other very selective schools are hardly the place for the "dumb" jock. The overwhelming majority of athletes at our most selectives schools do well and graduate in remarkable numbers. </p>
<p>As far as getting a nod, could it be that athletes who also have competitive academic qualifications have shown the ability of managing brutal schedules or displayed character and leadership? Also, it would be wrong to believe that average athletes are given easy advantages. The number of students who are recruited is a lot smaller than most people might assume. </p>
<p>Lastly, one ought to consider the other side of the coin. The life of an athlete at a competitive school is full of sacrifices and it IS hard work.</p>
<p>Well, I am sure that one-size does not fit all, but my son's story is interesting. He was a four-year HS football player, 3 years varsity. He was recruited by Columbia and Brown, as well as Wesleyan, Pomona and Wash. U. His academic stats alone were sufficient for any of the above schools. In others words, he was not in need of a banded-slot that the Ivies use to fill out their rosters. (Xiggi: I am not saying these banded -slot players are not worthy or able to do they work, I know some of these kids and they are doing quite well with the academics).</p>
<p>Well, he got hurt first game of senior season and the Ivies dropped him like a hot potato. Still, he applied Ed to Columbia and was deferred. Later on he was rejected at Brown and Columbia, but accepted at Wes., Pomona (off the wait list) and Wash. U.</p>
<p>As most of you know, he choose to take an academic scholarship at Tulane and not play football in college.</p>
<p>So, in his case, sports alone were not enough to get him into an Ivy, and I do not think that playing a sport (unless you are a recruited athlete) is worth more than any other EC that takes significant time and commitment. On the other hand, where he was recruited (Div. III), both his high academic and football skills no doubt opened doors for him that were closed to other academically qualified candidates.</p>
<p>Xiggi, let me be clear: the kids that got into the Ivy schools ED or other top schools certainly had the stats to be competitive. I am not inplying that they were sub par applicants. However, they didn't seem to have scores or GPAs better than those who were deferred at our school. It just seemed that the athletic hooks was enough to get them to stand out from the pack.</p>
<p>One of my son's HS classmates is now attending an Ivy League school. (HS is a highly competitive private college prep school.) Said classmate was nationally ranked (#1 in the country) for his sport. I don't know if he was accepted solely on the basis of his athletics BUT I do know that it wasn't on the basis of his academics. His weighted GPA was less than 3.9 and he was not even in the top 25% of the class. (He also had no other ECs since most of his time was devoted to his sport.) Given all the Ivy League rejections you see on this board for students who have straight A's and perfect SAT scores and amazing resumes, it does make one wonder......</p>
<p>Let me address the comments of Worriedmom. </p>
<p>First, let's look at the student who was Number One is his sport. You say that he ONLY had a 3.9 GPA and was not in the top 25% of his class at a ... highly competitive prep school. </p>
<p>Isn't it fair to assume that for someone to become No 1 and maintain a national ranking does require an enormous amount of work? Can't we safely assume that the colleges do factor the various time commitment of the sport when analyzing his "r</p>
<p>for some sports, athletics can be a big hook, particularly at the top tier schools. There aren't many GREAT football or hockey players that can score 1400+ and maintain a high gpa given the time pressures of the sport. It's only natural they standout, as has been noted by several authors of the college tomes.</p>
<p>In the case of the two recruits to Columbia that I referenced, both had good stats (~1400, 3.7+ gpa) and other leadership qualities as well (ASB Pres).</p>
<p>Xiggi, I did not say that my son's classmate had ONLY a 3.9 GPA. I simply stated that it was UNDER 3.9 (weighted) and that he was not in the top 25% -- facts that I could verify because the school indicates those graduating with honors in the commencement program. Quite frankly, my son and his friends who attended some classes with this kid believe his grades were much more in the range of 2.5 - 3.0, but I did not want to overstate the case, based on speculation alone. To be honest, this particular student was recruited by the high school too -- the high school happens to be ranked among the top 3 in the nation for that particular sport.</p>
<p>I have no problem with the Ivies and other highly selective schools specifically choosing athletes out of the pool of academically qualified applicants, because as you say, athletes do put an enormous amount of time and effort into achieving top rankings. Even I would give your sister, the valedictorian/athlete, an admissions boost because of that. </p>
<p>Where I get concerned is when the school chooses someone who is not even close to being competitive on academics -- just because they are a top-ranked athlete.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the average academic index score for athletes must be within one standard deviation of the AI for the school as a whole. Depending on the school, this translates into an average of 600 on each SAT test and a top 25% ranking (AI is approximately 182).</p>
<p>You are welcome. This is a hot button issue for many. But, as Xiggi so eloquently put it, unless you live with a student-athlete, you have no idea of the sacrifices these kids make for their team and their sport. Up early, home late. For a football player like my son, you can add: sports hernia, separated shoulder, big-toe bone bruise, and those are just the injuries that required surgery or loss of playing time. The usual bangs and bruises dont even count for these kids.</p>
<p>xiggi,
excellent summation of the sacrifices made by athletes who may not have time to stay up till 1 am perfecting that paper because they just got in at midnight from a meet and have an entire night's workload ahead of them. Parents who don't have an athlete (or hard-working theater student or musician--you name it) don't get why some of these kids may get an edge in admissions in recognition that the athlete still made honor roll AND was all-state in their sport.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the average academic index score for athletes must be within one standard deviation of the AI for the school as a whole. Depending on the school, this translates into an average of low 600's on each SAT test and a top 25% ranking (AI for this scenario will be around 185-190). Since this is an average, there will be a number of athletes with lower scores. Without an athletic hook, students with these scores would be unlikely to be admitted.</p>
<p>Xiggi's argument that athletes spend a great deal of time with their sport is accurate. But that's also true for other varsity athletes who don't possess the talent to be recruited. I would also hope it's true for non-athletes who pursue their activity with an equal passion. Unfortunately, for a student who's a fraction of a second too slow or who has a non-athletic EC, they don't get the break of this one-standard deviation, despite working just as hard.</p>
<p>My main objection is the sheer numbers of recruited athletes. For example, I find no justification for 35 football recruits each year. Other top D-I schools recruit half that number (even allowing for redshirts). Other sports have similar disparities, plus the Ivy schools boast more varsity teams than the average D-I school, so they need even more athletes!</p>
<p>Of course the Ivy schools could alleviate this athletic pressure by switching to D-III, but that won't happen.</p>