Does athletics seem to be a major hook for the ivy schools?

<p>Mini, you are amazing!</p>

<ol>
<li>TCB PUBLISHES a report - that means they make it public.</li>
</ol>

<p>2, Fairtest reproduces portions of the report illegally - and obviously attempts to add a slant of their own. </p>

<p>Now, you claim that TCB is upset because fairtest.org made the same information so "publicly visible". Come on, Mini, what kind of logic is that. </p>

<p>The truth is a LOT more simple: fairtest.org does NOT have any information of their own, they do not have competent staff, they do NOT have access to any of the relevant information -short of stealing it. TCB simply tells fairtest to develop their own information and not steal TCB's. </p>

<p>Does it get any simpler than that?</p>

<p>I would fully expect those from higher income groups to test well. I do believe there is some correlation of income and IQ--take a look at the reported average IQ's of various professions--far above average for most professional jobs.</p>

<p>dabost: I participate in a non-recruited sport not offered at my high school. I currently spend 10-12 hours a week on it although it is my No. 1 Passion. I know, 10-12 hours a week hardly appears to be a passion compared to other kids spending 20-25 hours a week with their sport. The ONLY reason I can't and don't spend more hours on it is due to cost. If I take on another part-time job (I already have 3), I could spend more time on my sport but then my grades would drop because I am spending too much time trying to make money to pay for my sport. </p>

<p>Being low income, "passionate" about a sport and maintaining near perfect grades is very difficult. No wonder why it is hard for lower income applicants to get accepted into top schools.</p>

<p>Worldshopper, don't worry, if you are working to pay for your sports practices, that's quite admirable, and I would think colleges would think very highly of that. My D happens to be very good in her sport, even though we don't pay for elaborate lessons or private coaches. I tell her that in the end, her hard work will be recognized. She doesn't work a job because she doesn't have the time, but she does have an intership for next summer, where she will be paid. I think that in the end, the IVYs will value this just as much as they value the top athletic performers who have had their sports paid for for years.</p>

<p>Worldshopper - I wouldn't worry whether the Ivies value you or not - you are already a winner, and have the capacities of stick-to-itiveness, initiative, hardwork, and talent that many topflight college students will never truly acquire. I know - I used to teach 'em. No matter where you end up going to school, you're going to end up on top. (and if you think you are going to lose anything substantive in educational value by not attending an Ivy-like school, you should know there are tens of thousands of people - and lots of folks on these boards - that will tell you otherwise.) Congrats!</p>

<p>"Now, you claim that TCB is upset because fairtest.org made the same information so "publicly visible". Come on, Mini, what kind of logic is that."</p>

<p>I think you should be asking the CollegeBoard that question, since they're the ones who have tried to suppress the public availablity of their own study. Of course, they had very good reasons for doing so - it gave the tests (or so they thought) a black eye.</p>

<p>"The truth is a LOT more simple: fairtest.org does NOT have any information of their own, they do not have competent staff, they do NOT have access to any of the relevant information -short of stealing it. TCB simply tells fairtest to develop their own information and not steal TCB's."</p>

<p>You got. I agree without absolutely everything in the last paragraph - except the "stealing", which is yet to be proven. Fairtest did not develop any of their own information. It was (and is) the CollegeBoard's. That's the whole point.</p>

<p>(One place I strongly disagree with FairTest - they argue that because the tests correlate with income so significantly, especially at the upper levels, the results are misused. For private institutions, I disagree - I think they are used precisely as intended. I think the best examination of these issues is still Lemann's "The Big Test" - not so much the section on the scores per se, but the fact that the CB developed a mechanism for making the scoring meritocratic, taking account of the advantages offered by family income, income of the school, race, etc., and rejecetd it.)</p>

<p>I have to admit that I have never seen a thread get so far from the original intent of the thread as this has. </p>

<p>I was simply asking for feedback for those of you who have kids accepted at ivy schools and top LACS such as Williams, Amherst, etc. as to,"whether your kids had some athletic ECs?" I noticed that a high percentage of those who did participate in athletics in varsity or as gymnasts . runners, etc., from our high school, and got into highly selective colleges, with the exception of the MITs and Caltechs of the world. I wanted to see if I was on to something here.</p>

<p>Let me be clear: if you have a kid who was accepted, especially ED, into an ivy or Williams, Amherst, Haverford, etc., please note whether or not they had athletics as one of their ECs? </p>

<p>Note, I am not just asking for specifically recruited kids for sports teams but, in addition, participation in athletics, which would have been noted on your college application.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>"I think you should be asking the CollegeBoard that question, since they're the ones who have tried to suppress the public availablity of their own study. Of course, they had very good reasons for doing so - it gave the tests (or so they thought) a black eye."</p>

<p>Mini, I remain speechless about your attempts to dance around the simplest of facts. You keep on mentioning a study, but that it is NOT at all the material that prompted TCB to act on the copyright infringement. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>YOU posted the information about the information that was supposed to be suppressed. If you follow the links, here's the exact file that prompted the cease and decist letter by TCB. Click <a href="http://www.fairtest.org/nattest/SAT%20Scoresn%202004%20Chart.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org/nattest/SAT%20Scoresn%202004%20Chart.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li>
<li><p>On the document in reference, you can see the EXACT source: College Board, College-Bound Seniors 2004: A Profile of SAT Program Test Takers</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This is the EXACT same document that is available on the web site of TCB. I've posted the link for 2005 in a previous post. I believe that the last ten years are still posted. Here is the report called College Board, College-Bound Seniors 2004: A Profile of SAT Program Test Takers
<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2004/2004_CBSNR_total_group.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2004/2004_CBSNR_total_group.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Accordingly, the facts are very clear and fall far short of supporting the allegations you made in your first post on this subject. I am still quite dumbfounded about the reasons behind your insistence of not recognizing mere facts that are so easily verifiable. You are telling everyone that TCB is attempting to suppress data, yet it is only one click away. </p>

<p>Now, let's celebrate the holidays. I call a truce. :)</p>

<p>Xiggi and others: Thanks for post the url that cites SAT performance as it correlates with income. It's almost a direct correlation too.</p>

<p>However, does it really surprise you. Richer families have access to all kinds of courses and tutors. In my area, which has a very heavy Asian population, kids are doing things that probably don't occur too much anywhere else. They start studying for the SAT early in their sophomore year! Some of the boutique SAT companies here are actually giving one year courses! Who says that the SATs aren't coachable?</p>

<p>and back to the original topic, I was accepted ED to columbia this year. I'm currently captaining for one sport that I've been playing competitively for three years, but not a recuite. I participate in a few other sports outside of classroom but not to a great amount. I don't think the one sport was the basis for my acceptance. however I think it did help to show that I'm not a total bookworm. </p>

<p>I agree that team sports requires alot more commitment than some of the school clubs. also anyone can join a service club or earn a few hundred volunteer hours if they want to, but playing well in a team sport takes alot of commitment and luck.</p>

<p>An athlete good enough to be recruited is a huge hook, obviously. For all the rest of the athletes, it shows committment, but I do not find at our high school the non-recruited athletes (i.e. those not good enough to play at college) do any better than the kids with other passions, be it drama, music or whatever. Those with outstanding ECs (the kid who published the article in the New Yorker was accepted to a top Ivy with a straight B average) stand out more than the guy who played on the basketball team but would have no chance of being recruited. It is hard to say how much sports help since in our school, at least, about 2/3 of the students participate in varsity sports. At a nearby private school, it is mandated that all physically able students play a varsity sport (tiny school, they need the bodies to make up teams).</p>

<p>Mini: Thanks for the praise. I agree -- a great education can be obtained at many schools, not just Ivy or the top 20. I applied to two Ivy schools and three selective schools not because of the name recognition but due to other factors which include offering my sport, my area of study, financial aid opportunties and location. </p>

<p>Choosing a college for the 'name' reminds me of clothing. I was brought up NOT to wear any clothes that revealed the brand name on the outside, either spelled out or represented by a logo or symbol. My mom feels that it is important to sell yourself, not be a walking advertisement for a clothing company. Same with college. I am going to go through life selling myself, not relying on the college brand name to get me in the door. I don't need to say "I went to Harvard" just like I don't need to run around with a polo player on my shirt to prove I have worth. A great college education can be found at lesser name schools just like a higher quality piece of clothing can be found w/o any reference to the brand on the outside (although most people don't get this).</p>

<p>Worried Mom-</p>

<p>R u from AZ?</p>

<p>Hi Everyone,
I play varsity girls golf. Does anyone know which colleges I will have good chance of getting in. My SAT I scores: v=690, m=780, w=700 (2170) and gpa= 4.35 w.
Thanks</p>

<p>sis1A, the parents need a great deal more information than your SAT scores and weighted GPA to help you. Do you plan to play golf in college? What's your golf average and handicap? Are you state-ranked in golf? Have you won any competitive tournaments? What year are you now? What is your unweighted GPA? What kinds of classes have you taken (Honor's, AP, Accelerated, etc.)? What are your other extracurricular and leadership activities? What are your interests in college? Large, small, etc? Give a great more detail if you really want help.</p>

<p>Thanks quiltguru for a prompt reply. Here are my answers to your questions. I would like to play golf in college. My average is 45. I am not ranked in state or have I won any tournaments. I am a junior now. Last year was the first time I played varsity golf. Our team had quite a few good players who were seniors and juniors and they got the chance to play more with the team.I think this year I should be able to play more and do well with the team. I go to a school with 3,000 kids. My uw gpa=4.15. I have taken Hon. Bio I and II, Hon. Chem I and II, Hon. Algebra I and II, Hon. Geometry, Hon. Analysis and trignometry, Spanish 1,2,3,4 and Hon. 5, Hon. Expos. Comp, Comp World Studies, Ap bio,and Ap chem. Next year I am planning on taking AP calc -ab, Ap span, Hon. Physics, Anatom. and Physiol., Hon. Imaginative Process and all required electives.I am planning on taking Ap bio, chem, span and calc exams and also SAT II- bio, chem, math II, span and physics. I am a member of Interact club(3 yrs), Spanish hon society(2 yrs), Model UN(2 yrs), volunteer at senior citizen facility(3yrs), and been a classical dancer for 9 yrs. I have performed for Tsunami and Katrina fundraisers. I am interested in Pre-med prog. or 8 yr BS/Md prog. I would like to attend college with 2 - 8 thousand students. No geographic preference.
Thanks for your help.</p>

<p>Thanks quiltguru for a prompt reply. Here are my answers to your questions. I would like to play golf in college. My average is 45. I am not ranked in state or have I won any tournaments. I am a junior now. Last year was the first time I played varsity golf. Our team had quite a few good players who were seniors and juniors and they got the chance to play more with the team.I think this year I should be able to play more and do well with the team. I go to a school with 3,000 kids. My uw gpa=4.15. I have taken Hon. Bio I and II, Hon. Chem I and II, Hon. Algebra I and II, Hon. Geometry, Hon. Analysis and trignometry, Spanish 1,2,3,4 and Hon. 5, Hon. Expos. Comp, Comp World Studies, Ap bio,and Ap chem. Next year I am planning on taking AP calc -ab, Ap span, Hon. Physics, Anatom. and Physiol., Hon. Imaginative Process and all required electives.I am planning on taking Ap bio, chem, span and calc exams and also SAT II- bio, chem, math II, span and physics. I am a member of Interact club(3 yrs), Spanish hon society(2 yrs), Model UN(2 yrs), volunteer at senior citizen facility(3yrs), and been a classical dancer for 9 yrs. I have performed for Tsunami and Katrina fundraisers. I am interested in Pre-med prog. or 8 yr BS/Md prog. I would like to attend college with 2 - 8 thousand students. No geographic preference.
Thanks for your help.</p>