Does being Hispanic help?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Georgetown University
1

<p>Hi </p>

<p>I know Georgetown had a big scandal this year with throwing out specific applicants based on race or other characteristics (I heard/read about this here... not sure if actually still true)</p>

<p>Would being Hispanic help then? My mother was born in Argentina, my dad is like Mayflower American... so I'm really only 50 percent... but I really connect with my Hispanic heritage and my moms side of the family. </p>

<p>I live in a quite affluent area (one of wealthiest counties in nation) but my family is strongly middle class.</p>

<p>Will this help/hurt/have no affect on my chances at any school? </p>

<p>Thanks :D</p>

2

<p>It all depends on how the Supreme Court votes on the affirmative action case come June. If they come to their senses, being Hispanic will not help you next year :p</p>

3

<p>There is no scandal - the claim made by a ‘Men’s Rights Advocates’ site was completely baseless. They read some woman’s blog postings and decided that what she described as being her PhD dissertation sounded like what a Georgetown undergrad wrote her Justice & Peace studies thesis on, so therefore the blog must’ve belonged to this Georgetown undergrad who would also somehow have been able to singlehandedly throw out applications. In otherwords, nonsense.</p>

<p>URM status is a variable used in admissions. It is one of many variables. It cannot hurt you. It could help you or it could have no effect.</p>

4

<p>dzleprechaun is wrong. It may be one of many variables, but it’s certainly a very important one. URM status will help you a lot if the SC decides to keep affirmative action as it stands.</p>

5

<p>I’m sorry, could you point out exactly what I said that is wrong?</p>

6

<p>Sorry, wrong is not the right word. I felt you were being a bit misleading, saying URM is just one of many variables (down-playing its role in admissions). It certainly wouldn’t have “no effect”.</p>

7

<p>I’m sorry but can someone explain to me what URM stands for? and What supreme court case is coming up?</p>

<p>Also my apologies for calling it a scandal… I only read the letter, so I apologize for sounding ill-informed</p>

<p>Edit: I found out what it means, but still I’m intruiged about this Supreme Court case? I certainly wouldn’t use my heritage as a scapegoat almost for getting into college… but I’ve had people tell me “Oh you can get in anywhere you want cause you are Hispanic”</p>

8

<p>* I felt you were being a bit misleading, saying URM is just one of many variables (down-playing its role in admissions).*</p>

<p>It IS just one of many variables. Standardized test scores are a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted - all else being equal. Class rank is a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. Class schedule rigor is a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. Essays are a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. Letters of recommendation are a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. The interview is a variable and (rarely) may or may not determine whether you are admitted. Legacy status is a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. Recruited athlete status is a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. At Georgetown and some other schools, socio-economic status and other special considerations, like whether you’re the first in your family to attend college, are a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. </p>

<p>And, yes, URM status is a variable and may or may not determine whether you are admitted. No downplaying or misrepresentation involved.</p>

<p>* It certainly wouldn’t have “no effect”.*</p>

<p>The thing about admission to Georgetown is that it is ultimately a zero-sum game. With respect to URM status, that means there are three possible outcomes:</p>

<ol>
<li>You are denied and your URM status would not have/did not make any difference.</li>
<li>You are admitted and your URM status was a decisive factor.</li>
<li>You are admitted and would have been admitted regardless of your URM status, so it did not have any effect.</li>
</ol>

<p>So in two out of the three possibilities, URM status has no effect on the outcome.</p>

<p>The model can be made a bit more complex by including the waitlist, preferred transfer, etc. but at the end of the day, you’re either admitted or you’re not, and URM status either played a decisive role or it didn’t. If it didn’t, then it effectively had no effect, as it did not alter the outcome.</p>

<p>What supreme court case is coming up?</p>

<p>There are two cases: One, Fisher v. University of Texas, was heard in October 2012, but no decision has yet been issued. The second, Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, was granted cert in March of this year and will be heard sometime during the next session, presumably.</p>

9

<p>You mention variables like recruited athlete, class rank, and essay quality as if they are all weighted equally, but they aren’t. Asians have to score over 400 points on the SAT to get into the same university as a URM, something I’m sure you couldn’t say about a strong essay.
Ron Unz’s article explains this further: </p>

<p>[The</a> Myth of American Meritocracy | The American Conservative](<a href=“http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/]The”>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/)</p>

<p>As for the “no effect” statement, you’re right. Lesson of the night: be careful when arguing with an SFS grad.</p>

10

<p>A dual SFS grad, no less ;)</p>

<p>I’m familiar with Unz’ work. Our widely differing understandings of the concept of ‘meritocracy’ aside, the main problem with his analysis is that it attempts to render quantifiable a process that is deliberately, concertedly holistic.</p>

<p>Variables are not all weighted equally, yes. However, it is also the case that variables are not weighted constantly; rather, the weighting itself is variable, and determined on a case-by-case basis. That is the whole point of a holistic admissions process. The academic transcript will always be the most important component, not least because it is unfair to admit someone who would not be able to succeed at the institution. But the particulars of an application may dictate that the criteria used to evaluate it should vary. A truly outstanding essay that reveals something unique about an applicant could very well cause the essay to be weighed more than it would be otherwise and reduce the relative importance of quantitative statistics (to a point, obviously).</p>

<p>One of the common criticisms of affirmative action is that it is a blunt instrument, which is a charge that definitely holds some validity. A more holistic process is meant to remove some of that bluntness, and that is the case with Georgetown. However, a truly holistic process will also take into account non-‘meritocratic’ factors, including socio-economic status. I happen to agree with that approach, but it is not an easily scalable one, which makes it much more difficult for larger schools to implement.</p>

11

<p>Re: Fisher V. UTA. I’d be very surprised if the supreme court sided with Fisher. For one UTA is following state law that allows the top percentage from each high school to earn auto admittance. Although maybe not perfect the math of selection is even handed across all Texas public schools. Also if Fisher wins, I doubt that it will affect a private school like Georgetown.</p>

12

<p>If Fisher REALLY wanted to attend UTA she should have tried harder to excel in her grades. Her GPA was anemic, she came in like somewhere in the 12% so she was not an automatic admit. If you are not in the top 10% (now 7%) the ones after, from what I’ve read, start with the highest GPA’s & they work themselves down. With all the people applying to UTA…good luck. She seemed to think because everyone in her family went there she should as well.</p>