Does contest math help you outside of high school?

Pre-College Topics High School Life
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<p>So, I'm pretty serious about math since I want to be a physicist. From practice tests, I will most likely be participating in the USAChO and USABO this year(taking physics senior year). I looked over some amc's, aime's, and usamo's. The first two just look like problems that can be solved through memorizing a lot of simple techniques. Not too hard, but quite time consuming. The USAMO looks a lot more challenging, but it is only proofs which is required primarily if not only for math majors. </p>

<p>I'm not trying to bash contest math, but does it have any application outside of well, contest math? Will performing/studying in these competitions prove useful for me after high school?I'm only interested in the math used in physics. Thanks.</p>

<p>But since Calculus is used extensively throughout physics, are there any Calculus-based contests? Thanks.</p>

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<p>okay, the farther reaching applications it may have are, of course, not guaranteed. Like you might make some great friends doing it, or you might not. It’s hard to tell what affects it would have in a persons future.</p>

<p>I don’t think a calculus based competition would be any different from a competition that did not require concepts from calculus. That is just my feeling. Like I think in both cases what it tested is how you put together and utilize the concepts that are covered in the competition. And I think as long as the difficulty level is similar, the type of thinking required will be similar. And I don’t think difficulty is a limiting factor - as you know competitions that don’t involve concepts from calculus are sufficiently difficult to be able to distinguish between the most talented kids.</p>

<p>Why are you interested in physics?</p>

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<p>I usually have a long speech prepared whenever someone asks me that haha, but for the sake of time… I’m interested in physics because I have a deep desire to understand nature. I could never see myself doing anything else than discovering the mysteries of the universe :]</p>

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<p>okay, that sounds like a nice desire. curiosity is a good human trait i think.</p>

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<p>lol ;D thanks</p>

<p>10 char</p>

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<p>I do think though that physics is totally the wrong discipline for smart people to pursue. That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the instincts that motivate people to do physics, because I do have a lot of appreciation for them.</p>

<p>Just I don’t think that humanity needs another string theorist at the moment :p.</p>

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<p>^ We don’t have enough D;<</p>

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<p>Physics is not all string theory. :stuck_out_tongue: I would prepare a long rant on the utility of physics, but that would be [wasting</a> time](<a href=“http://xkcd.com/386/]wasting”>xkcd: Duty Calls).</p>

<p>If you’re only interested in math used in physics, calculus is probably more helpful than most contest math in most applications. (Algebra and geometry do provide a large basis for calculus, though.) If you want to look at computational physics, though, discrete math (counting, probability, number theory, logic, etc.) forms part of the foundation of computer science and is used heavily in math competitions. </p>

<p>FYI, you will have to write proofs in higher math courses, which you are likely to take even as a physics major.</p>

<p>(And if you just memorize techniques for math competitions, you’re doing it wrong. Very wrong.)</p>

<p>EDIT: Never mind, you probably won’t have to write proofs unless you want to or you’re going into an abstract field. From a brief survey of physics major requirements, physics majors usually only need math up through differential equations. Probably assumed that because I’m going to take lots of math, physics, and CS in college, probably majoring in at least one of them, so it all kind of blends in. :P</p>

<p>There are calculus subject tests in some math competitions (Stanford Math Tournament, Harvard-MIT Math Tournament), but for those you also have a Team and Power (proof) round, so…</p>

<p>And why are you doing bio/chem when you could be doing physics on your own? I studied for the AP physics and AP calculus exams without classes, and I did decently; several of my friends have self-studied physics and/or calculus on their own and performed similarly. None of us are geniuses.</p>

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<p>I know. I’ll explain my position a bit, so maybe you see I am not thinking along the lines that I think you might be thinking I’m thinking along.</p>

<p>I don’t doubt physic’s utility or worth to humans, etc. even if its only utility is that it’s a harmless occupation that makes the people happy who do it - that to me in considerable utility. I value it myself quite a lot. I just do not think that right now pursuing physics in the conventional sense is probably the best thing to do today if you want to get the most out of your life.</p>

<p>I think it’s fair to imagine a time not far off, when, you know, we have very powerful computers, and all you have to do is feed it the data of, say, an apple falling for a few microseconds, and it’ll be able to postulate not just newtons laws, but general relativity as the most probable hypothesis almost immediately, and sort of put to shame all the brilliant people who agonized over formulating the theory for years.</p>

<p>And maybe that won’t be the way we end up figuring things out - through efficient data processing and hypothesis forming machines -but it’s at least worthwhile to consider all the novel ways in which it may be possible to figure things out.</p>

<p>I think if you are someone who is seriously interested in understanding the things we don’t understand, in not just the personal glory of discovery or infatuation with the mysteriousness of the universe, but if you don’t care how things get figured out as long as they do, then I think you’ll see that getting humans to ponder physics directly is probably not the most efficient way of actually figuring physics out.</p>

<p>Another avenue would maybe be through realizing rejuvenation therapies, achieving indefinite life extension, figuring out ways to augment our intelligence ,etc. Then you don’t have to worry about reeducating each generation with our ever increasing knowledge of physics.</p>

<p>Also I see physics as sort of a default interest for a lot of smart people. Smart people interested in physics not because they really have a clue what it is, but just because they know physics is a domain smart people occupy. And that is not to say they are not curious and interested in the universe (they certainly are) it’s just that they see physics as the only place for them in society where those qualities they have are appreciated and accepted, and so on</p>

<p>I think it’s a rather low local minimum to rest at… To say with certainty your calling in life is physics in the 21st century probably means you are missing a few large pieces to the puzzle in terms of having broad understanding of what it means to be alive right now. The landscape from which you’re picking what’s best for you to do in other words is probably rather narrow.</p>

<p>==</p>

<p>we don’t have to argue, and arguments don’t have to be pointless or a waste of time.</p>

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<p>Competition math itself has no value. The process of studying intensely and learning to write solid proofs, however, is of much more value. But memorizing many many formula is worthless.</p>

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<p>I dunno, I’d say the heuristics trained by it are fairly helpful, and after learning a little bit of college math I think problem solving experience makes it somewhat easier.</p>

<p>There are calculus-based contests out there:</p>

<p>[HMMT:</a> Archive](<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/hmmt/www/datafiles/problems/2011.shtml]HMMT:”>http://web.mit.edu/hmmt/www/datafiles/problems/2011.shtml)</p>

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<p>Competition math teaches important problem solving skills and encourages thinking about situations in “better” ways…or something like that.
[Why</a> Discrete Math Is Important](<a href=“http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/articles.php?page=discretemath]Why”>Why Discrete Math is Important)
<a href=“http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/Files/problemsolving.pdf[/url]”>http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/Files/problemsolving.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
[Pros</a> and Cons of Math Competitions](<a href=“http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/articles.php?page=pc_competitions]Pros”>The Pros and Cons of Math Competitions)</p>

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<p>The Harvard MIT Math contest has a calculus portion.</p>

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<p>The Putnam Competition.
dun dun dunnnnnn</p>