<p>Cornell has been matching other Ivies for at least the past decade</p>
<p>sybbie719…
“Shouldn’t this happen anyway? Shouldn’t learning and doing one’s best work be intrinsically motivated not not necessarily based on the goal of getting into “a top college””
To an extent yes, but in the pursuit of certain goals sacrifices are made so if the goals are taken away what is the point of the sacrifice? I know these forums are full of kids that effortlessly produce top stats, but for some kids it is a lot more complex and a price is paid…</p>
<p>purpleacorn…
So you are at Duke? I appreciate your input, but it doesn’t look like you ended up needing to settle for a safety.<br>
I felt that when I started running NPCs during 10th grade that I was being fairly proactive…unfortunately my son already had some well established ideas by then…and I suppose I muddied the waters as early as 1st grade when I bought him a YALE tshirt!</p>
<p>Many of us had no idea how much college would actually cost by the time our kids turned 18. But I do agree that you’ve got to send a clear message now to your S as to how much you’re able to pay. I would recommend not letting him apply to any college you’re not willing to pay for if you had to. There are so many sad stories of bitter kids and distressed parents who couldn’t bring themselves to draw the financial line until after the kids had made a psychological investment in a certain school. If the NPC calculators for Cornell ( or any other school) indicate that it will be unaffordable, cross it off your list now. Don’t compare hypothetical price differentials among schools. Think, “will/can I pay this amount for this school, or not?”</p>
<p>I’m just starting but I’m doing what sybbie and NJmom have suggested. We started at the bottom so D is very happy with her in state safety school (to the point where, if she’s still this happy next year, it may be an ED application). </p>
<p>In compiling a list of potential schools, I ran the NPC for each school and then eliminated any school with EFC above our threshold. D wasn’t thrilled to see some schools drop off but that’s reality. D might apply to one or two of the eliminated schools but she knows that even if she is accepted, she probably won’t go unless somehow the financial aid package is more generous than expected.</p>
<p>I’m finding that assets play a big part in granting financial aid. So we fall into that 75-120k range but our assets then pushes the EFC much higher. Not complaining, just explaining.</p>
<p>ProudmomX3- Schools aren’t going to come up with a magical FA formula just for you, once you’re admitted, that will make it better. In April, your choices are going to be from denying your son his ‘dream’ school (because you let him have such a choice) and taking out absurd amounts in private loans (which you will justify).</p>
<p>I have friends who made this decision, and it was agonizing for them. Some went to UC-Berkley OOS and are taking out the $20k+ in private loans. Some are at Duke right now in the same situation. And some ‘settled’ for large scholarships at Bama and UT-Dallas and are still resentful towards their parents.</p>
<p>You can pretend all you want that magic will happen and the money fairy will be nice come FA time. Apply to those schools, as a reach-- that’s perfectly acceptable. But for the sake of your son, make him look at some other schools. There are so many institutions in this country, and so many of them have fantastic opportunities. Create a situtation in April where there are only good choices, not one fantastic dream choice and a whole bunch of bad one</p>
<p>purpleacorn…so, you are 19? I’m a bit older and stopped believing in the money fairy a few years ago. </p>
<p>This thread was about the disparity between Cornell’s financial aid and other similar options. I’m having a difficult time wrapping my head around it, when out of all of the colleges in the nation it happens to be the one my son is most drawn to. Yes, as a parent I am conflicted. I am not “pretending” anything, I am gathering information, educating myself, weighing options, and making it clear to my son that financial packages will need to be assessed. In the process I am also doing some venting on a public forum.</p>
<p>I never mentioned that I would require loans to pay full freight btw…and whatever I ultimately decide to pay I won’t feel the need to justify it to anyone other than my son.</p>
<p>Sybbie, this is from the Cornell web site:</p>
<p>“The Award Match Initiative – announced in fall 2011 – strengthens Cornell’s need-based financial aid by offering to match need-based aid packages from other Ivy League schools as well as Duke, MIT and Stanford.”</p>
<p>They may have been matching for years, but it became official in 2011, which is about the time they got rid of the lower loan amounts. I don’t care that I am right, except I found this in about 30 seconds.</p>
<p>My point is that it is not news as it has been something that they have been doing for well over a decade</p>
<p>They didn’t announce it 10 years ago, but two, which is what my post was referring to … In any case, the current state is that the loans are back up to $5k and they match some other schools. So you don’t get the benefit of the lower net price unless you apply RD and have another admission to a school they will match. And since they are less likely to take you in RD when they have already filled almost half their class ED, only really strong RD students will benefit from the lower net price. Before the change, even the ED kids were benefiting from the lower loan amounts.</p>
<p>SlackerMomMD – have you found other schools besides Cornell that consider equity in the primary residence in the NPC calculation? I haven’t in DS’s list, but I’m wondering which others do. Also, have you run the WashU NPC? Our results were terrible. DS wanted to add it because a few friends have it on their lists, but after seeing the results, I told him forget it. They put some huge note about merit aid, but he is barely at the median for stats. The CW NPC was also terrible, though if his SAT was 1560 instead of 1460, their merit aid kicked in.</p>
<p>Daddio3, I was on Harvard’s very simple NPC calculator and started with just our gross income and sure enough, it was very affordable. Then I added in our real estate equity, it went up. Then I added in our assets. At that point, the EFC fire Harvard was comparable to all the other schools D had listed. It was pretty much in the middle of the pack. It seemed the asset value had the biggest impact but I may be remembering it wrong.</p>
<p>again maybe I’m wrong but I thought Harvard would be among the most generous for need based aid. I haven’t looked at WashU</p>
<p>Of all of the things I just don’t get about FA, here is the biggest:</p>
<p>Total family income
Loan in aid package
Under $60,000 annually
$0
Between $60,000 and $75,000 annually
$2,500
Between $75,000 and $120,000 annually
$5,000
Above $120,000 annually
$7,500</p>
<p>WHY?!</p>
<p>What is the question? Why does the loan amount go up as the family income increases?</p>
<p>Said another way this policy is … the lower the family income the higher the level of direct grants. Wouldn’t that be what you expect.</p>
<p>PS - as a Cornell alum the first thing I’d improve if I could would be the level of FA provided.</p>
<p>Daddio…
I just ran WashU since some have suggested that it offers good aid, but my results were similar to yours…and as an added bonus their price came out the same as Cornell so I can no longer claim Cornell is the “worst”, lol.</p>
<p>3togo…
I guess I don’t understand the rationale of why a student who’s parent is making no contribution to begin (under $60,000) isn’t required to have any “skin in the game”. Probably a topic I should leave alone.</p>
<p>ProudMom, it’s great that you are doing this research right now. Too often students and parents find out about all of this when the stakes are real. The fact of the matter is that many old timers on this board who have already gone through this process have found out first hand that aid packages can vary $10-20K even among like schools. That’s why ED is not a good idea for those who want/need financial aid, unless both parent and child have decided that a particular school will be the one if it can at all be afforded, and there is a clear line as to what affordablility is. </p>
<p>Many of the top schools do have a student contribution amount even if the family EFC is zero and the parents come up as not having to contribute anything. Those amounts are often very hefty. I see them even at schools bragging that there are no loans included in aid packages for low income families, but really, where does a kid from a zero or low EFC family come up with, say $6K , which is an amount I have seen several times. Of course, he has to borrow from Direct Loans. Or there is work study in the award, which may or may not be earned, and the money isn’t available upfront in any case. It’s a tough go for those families who truly do not have an extra money and are strapped already. </p>
<p>THere are a lot of things in the aid formula, such as some schools capping home equity value, some including value of cars and other items and situation, and how they are assumed in the calculators also cause some distortions. THe calculators are averages only and when there assumptions for the average of certain income groups built into the calculator, some odd things happen. They are not always accurate. However, Cornell has always had the rep of being less generous, being a much larger school with a smaller per student endowment as compared to their peers. I’m glad they have come out and out and stated they are open to matching offers, as I am sure families have not bothered to negotiate and lost out, not knowing that this is an option. </p>
<p>Be aware that many of these schools have “curve balls” in their aid calculations that are difficult to discover until you fall in the path of one of them. UChicago will carry students assets from the first PROFILE all the way to through the years the student is there, for instance. One school might be more generous about outside awards than others–my son’s college did not cut school aid awards for outside awards, only necessary federal ones. Johns Hopkins does the same for the first year. Some schools are stingier about increasing awards and with formulas for future siblings or if the student starts out with a sibling in college, deep cuts may happen when that sibling is out of school . But, yes, schools may have very different formulas, at various income/asset ranges so it’s difficult comparing apples to apples. I think the NPCs have added transparency to the situation–it used to be nigh impossible to come up with any idea of what a given school’s aid formula is. But still, it is an estimate only with certain assumptions built in the forumulas that may not be born out in fact when the actual numbers are given.</p>
<p>Well if you want to see a worse one, look at Carnegie Mellon. CMU was my son’s dream school for computer science ever since we visited sophomore year (it was a reach for CS but he has a shot), and HE crossed it off his list after seeing how bad their aid was. They do have a cool option for estimating aid – you send in the numbers and they will run them through their most recent ACTUAL aid calculation as though you applied this year. But the results were really painful since they only meet full need for ED.</p>
<p>Yes, CMU is tight with the funds for most students. However, they will give real numbers, which is great, and they will also gladly look at competing packages and offer to match. THey have been the most open about this policy, unlike most schools who have acted like they are too good to negotiate (don’t even say the word), but actually have increased aid packages when a competing school has better offers. I applaud the schools that operate with transparency and tell everyone how it works. Admission Directors choke at admitting that they do take need into consideration for admissions, and that they have merit within need and other such things. </p>
<p>There are many “worse” school in terms of meeting need. Most of the college, the vast, vast majority of them gap. It’s a tiny minority that even come close to meeting need even as the colleges themselves define it. It’s crazy that one then has to figure out how each college defines it, as they have different formulas and won’t share them with you.</p>
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<p>You know, this sounds great, but I have another kid two years behind. Are they going to take 1/3 more off when that second kids goes to school, or are they going to recalculate from scratch and not improve the aid at all. I am running the numbers for both scenarios – now and three years from now.</p>