Does GPA matter when the scholar system is diametrically opposed

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>I wonder if the GPA calculated from equivalences matters for the internationals because in france we are compelled to take classes even though we are not interested in (If I'm right, students choose their classes in the US (APs) which allow them to have good GPAs if they're good at what they like to do...). My grades in maths, physics, biology are very good because they can be regarded as american A+ (they're all as difficult as AP classes) and history, english (too easy ;)) quite good too (A+) even though it's less difficult because I'm in a scientific section </p>

<p>So my gpa would be above 4W and UW according to the difficulty of classes taken BUT I'm compelled to attend french litterary (the level is light years away from the SAT level :))and spanish classes which decrease my GPA to 3,6. moreover a friend who studied in Washington DC told me that you can chose you sport in classes of sport (sorry for the repetition) --> a guy who's good at soccer would go on practicing it throughout years and always getting an A+
but in france we are once more coerced to practice a sport chosen by the teacher--> my grades can also decrease according to the sport. (I got a C in basketball whereas I would have had a A+ playing soccer or simply running). Sport is as important as spanish, I mean they have the same credit. as a result it affect greatly my GPA</p>

<p>Because a GPA of 3,6 in the US, a student would have a zero-chance of acceptance at HYPS or other select colleges unless having cured the cancer, or being an athletic recuited...</p>

<p>Would it be the same case for me? as I said without these classes where I'm forced to attend I would have a GPA of 4.5+W and 4UW</p>

<p>PS= I haven't taken the SAT yet.
Thank you in advance and sorry for misspellings.
Here's the website I'm using to calculate my gpa <a href="http://www.foreigncredits.com/Resources/GPA-Calculator/France%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.foreigncredits.com/Resources/GPA-Calculator/France&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

2

<p>While most American high schools allow a large degree of choice in classes, it is not true that students that want to go to college can only take the classes that interest them. All colleges’ admissions websites contain advice similar to this from Harvard:</p>

<p>In summary, we recommend:</p>

<pre><code>the study of English for four years: close and extensive reading of the classics of the world’s literature;
four years of a single foreign language;
the study of history for at least two, and preferably three years: American History, European History, and one additional advanced history course;
the study of mathematics for four years, including the particular topics described;
the study of science for four years: Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, and preferably one of these at an advanced level;
frequent practice in the writing of expository prose.
</code></pre>

<p>source: [Harvard</a> College Admissions § Applying: Preparing for College](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/preparing/index.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/preparing/index.html)</p>

<p>You will be evaluated based on your achievements in the context of what was available to you. Do not worry about differences between high schools.</p>

3

<p>Many US high schools have minimum requirements for graduation. For example, see: [Stuyvesant</a> High School](<a href=“http://stuy.enschool.org/academics/grad_require1.jsp]Stuyvesant”>http://stuy.enschool.org/academics/grad_require1.jsp). Not every student is interested in all the classes they must take. And for the record, many colleges recalculate your GPA without classes such as gym (your sport), chorus, drama etc.</p>

4

<p>I read it on the harvard’s website a long time ago but these requirements, I think, are to be nuanced, because a student can meet these criterions by attending basics classes which are very easy even though I know that the most part of the applicants won’t be in this case. If I’m not wrong they are not coerced to take AP classes, am I. I’ve another question, does the SAT score take more importance in the appplication for an international student? → because of these differences which render difficults any equivalences.</p>

5

<p>075014,</p>

<p>Most American high schools require a mix of mandatory courses with elective courses. At my sons’ high school, everyone is required to take English each year for four years. The course content (whether American literature or European literature, etc.) is not elective. However, better students are placed into honors level or AP level courses.</p>

<p>Similarly in math, science and history. Every student must take certain core courses - only the levels differ, whether regular college prep, honors or AP. Every student at my sons’ high school must take three years of a foreign language. There is some limited choice as to which language, but everyone must take it.</p>

<p>As for “sport,” most schools require at least a year or so of physical education, often with no choice as to the curriculum of the class or classes.</p>

<p>Furthermore, American colleges and universities, especially highly-selective schools, will be looking for specific minimum numbers of courses in different subjects, and specific topics within those subjects.</p>

<p>A long-time high school teacher and administrator that I know calls this “the rule of 20.” Generally, top colleges and universities are looking for a minimum total of 20 courses from five subject areas: math, science, English, history (or social studies), foreign languages. In math, they like to see four years ending at least in college prep pre-calculus. In science, they also like to see four years, including biology, chemistry and physics. In English, they’ll want to see at least four years and will often look for at least a year of English literature and at least a year of British or European literature. In history, again, they’d like to see three or four years, and they’ll look for at least a year of world history and a year of US history. Many want to see a class in US government. They want to see at least three years of a foreign language.</p>

<p>That leaves some flexibility. Both my sons will have taken only three of history. But my older son had six years of one foreign language and four years of a second foreign language. My younger son will likely have four years of one and three or four of a second foreign language. My older son took AP Calculus BC in his senior year to round out four years of math. But my younger son will likely do multivariable calculus in his senior year, ending, in effect, with five years of math.</p>

<p>At my sons’ high school, the school itself requires a minimum of 24 courses over four years, and most students do 28 or more. With those extra courses beyond the “core,” they’ll take the courses they really want to take, whether it’s extra math, science, language or social studies, or band or chorus or other music courses. Beyond the one course in physical education, there are no other “sport” courses, but many students participate in team sports, which are extracurricular activities for which one receives no grades, and are not counted as courses.</p>

<p>High schools can vary significantly in the United States, as each school jurisdiction sets up its own curriculum, its own rules, its own policies. And then, there are the countless private high schools (my sons’ high school if private) that are independent of and differ from the high schools sponsored and run by the government school jurisdictions.</p>

<p>But my sons’ high school is pretty typical of high schools in the United States, at least academically.</p>

6

<p>In addition to the classes expected by colleges such as Harvard for all incoming freshman, most US states also have minimum requirements for high school graduation, with certain classes in certain subjects also being a requirement. So there is some flexibility in choice of classes, there is also a basic core of courses that must be taken by all students. However, the expectations of a selective college like Harvard will almost always be much more demanding than the minimum state requirements for a high school diploma.</p>

<p>One thing to note is that Harvard admits a significant number of foreign students every year and is very experienced in judging equivalence and comparing the academic achievements from students from very different educational systems and backgrounds. Of course the SAT helps to standardize that, but it is only one component of the mix. </p>

<p>Regardless of the system the applicant comes from, Harvard will always want to see that you took the most rigorous courses available to you. That you took full advantage of the opportunities that you had. Not all US high schools offer AP classes, so obviously those students won’t be taking any. But if AP is offered then students better take them if possible.</p>

<p>So be sure you have taken the most demanding courses available to you, and Harvard will assess you accordingly. You will not be penalized if you have no US-style AP courses available.</p>

7

<p>See Page 2, upper right hand corner: <a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Docs/DownloadForms/2013/2013SchoolReport_download.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Docs/DownloadForms/2013/2013SchoolReport_download.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>When you apply to college, your guidance counselor must complete the above Secondary School Report (SSR) that asks them to rate the rigor of your course load, as compared to all other college bound students at your school. They must rate your rigor as (a) most demanding (b) very demanding (c) demanding (d) average or (e) below average. </p>

<p>Harvard, and all select colleges, are looking for students who have taken the “most demanding” course load at their high school. Your GPA is considered within the context of the courses you have taken. Having a “most demanding” course schedule and a 3.8 is vastly better than having an “average” course load and a 4.0. That’s true for international students as well.</p>

8

<p>I have around 32 hours per week of classes since the 9th grade. could you tell me the average of hours per week in the US please?. I took maths, physics, biology at the highest level possible = AP, french and history at a level… I would say honor level in france. of course spanish, english are in a ridiculous level in comparison with what’s studied in english or spanish speaking countries. I was also lead up to study economy and sth obscure called science of engineering–> far away of what I was expected, we 've just wasted our time in front of computers (no matter). Of course I’ve to study other fields to extend my mind, but taking classes for the sake of looking good in an application isn’t really productive, I’m currently gonna competing in french maths olympiad and I’ve no time to spend with Baudelaire, Voltaire, Victor Hugo, Maupassant, Verlaine, Zola… (I’m kind of bored of this persistent chauvinism because I’m sure that some of you would have never heard of them whereas in france they told us that we can’t do without them.</p>

<p>sorry but you didn’t answer my questions:
does the SAT score take more importance in the appplication for an international student?
does a GPA of 3.6 from equivalences invalid my plans of getting into an top college?</p>

<p>thanks you all for being so fast.</p>

9

<p>“does the SAT score take more importance in the appplication for an international student?”</p>

<p>With regards to your Math score, no. However, unlike other colleges, Harvard does not require international students to take the TOEFL. So I believe that Harvard looks more closely at an international student’s Critical Reading and Writing scores to determine whether a student can read and write English proficiently.</p>

10

<p>“does a GPA of 3.6 from equivalences invalid my plans of getting into an top college?”</p>

<p>This is a question for your guidance counselor. Over the years, how many students from your school have been admitted to US colleges with a 3.6? I imagine the answer is going to vary from country to country and school to school – that’s why you need to ask your GC.</p>

11

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<p>You are basically asking us a “chances” question, and chances questions are almost impossible to answer with any certainty because none of us is on the Harvard admissions committee. </p>

<p>My guess is that the SAT is a useful tool for comparing a certain form of academic achievement across different education and grading systems. However, Harvard gets lots of applications from Europe, including France, and thus are likely to be able to accurately assess graduates from French high schools without relying too heavily on the SAT.</p>

<p>You have a GPA of 3.6. 3.6 out of what? Out of 4.0? If so that is a little on the low side for Harvard. Harvard gets many applicants with perfect grades from very demanding high schools - both US and international schools. A 3.6 does not automatically “invalidate” your chances at Harvard, but you better have a strong record of achievements in other areas to compensate for your GPA.</p>

12

<p>I think most high schools generally have around 6 - 7 hours per day of instruction, which includes a short lunch break. My sons’ high school day is 7 hours.</p>

<p>As others have pointed out, if you apply to top-tier schools, it’s important to have taken courses at the highest level offered, even if you’re not particularly interested in the subject. If you’re not very good at the subject, it’s more of an open question as to what level one would take, but remember that if you’re applying to Harvard, and you take a lower level literature class when you could have taken something on the AP level, it’s going to be a small negative, whether you like or are good at literature or not.</p>

<p>Top schools will look for you to have taken advanced levels of French and French literature since you are, after all, studying in a French school. It’s hardly chauvinism to learn about your own culture.</p>

<p>Regarding grades vs. test scores for international students, I’m surmising, but I’d guess the emphasis will still be first on grades. Like others have said, top schools have dealt with international students before and have a good feel for how to evaluate the grades you receive.</p>

<p>The specific question of whether a GPA of 3.6 will keep you out of school is one I can’t answer. It will, I imagine, depend on the college or university and how they interpret the data from your current school and specific circumstances. By itself, it isn’t likely to cause an admissions committee to stop considering your application further.</p>