<p>re: post #94: This week my friend and I ran into two other moms of college-aged children. Of the group two of us had freshmen at elite schools (HYPS, and Berkeley), and two had children at the state flagship (one in the honors college, the other in the school of engineering.) I was telling them how my D had just called, ecstatic to have scored a 59 on her math test, since she was actually at the mean this time! The CAL mom laughed, and chimed in with a similar story. The flagship kids, both of whom had lower class rank (in the same high school) than our girls, were getting A’s in their math classes. Yup, easier on the ego, but is that what you want?</p>
<p>Well, I do know some disgruntled students at elite schools who have found out that working hard enough to score at the mean may give them personal satisfaction but will not necessarily get them into medical school. At least students at state honors colleges have the option of moving down a rung if necessary in those critical courses. This might be a trivial point, except at some of these schools large numbers of freshmen declare themselves pre-med and expect to decide whether or not they really want to go to medical school, rather than have the decision made for them before they have even adjusted to college life. This is probably less of an issue for students with other career aspirations, or those who wait to take the pre-med classes until later on, or after graduation (in a post-bac program.)</p>
<p>When we looked into this issue with our children (who had no interest at all in attending medical school), we were pretty much advised to go with the option among several large research universities that would seem to provide the greatest degree of one on one mentoring outside of the classroom, with the caveat that our children (barring family connections or URM status) would probably be less attractive to some employers with a diploma from a state school, no matter the GPA, than with a diploma from an elite school, were they to decide upon entering the job market immediately upon graduation.</p>
<p>I remember seeing a study that said students accepted into Ivy schools who choose state schools did just as well because it is about the student and how much they put in. Maybe that was their first study. I would have to look them both up. I think this becomes more of a concern when the expensive private school is not as well ranked. Some students would do better at an outstanding state school especially considering they first have to get past the trappings and evaluate the true value of the school itself. You can’t buy common sense. If you already have some you are way ahead of certain people.</p>
<p>Had a discussion about this with my sister when D was trying to figure out which schools to apply to. Sis went into the same field D wants to go into so it was logical to pick her brain for guidance.</p>
<p>My sister graduated from a pretty good state school and went on to land a nice job in one of the larger East Coast cities. Sis said that once she established herself at some level of departmental responsibility beyond the entry level and into the next levels at her firm, she then had to endure over a decade of training newly-minted Ivy graduates who would subsequently got the raises faster and be promoted over her because they had the right “pedigree”. Sis eventually made it to the upper eschellons of management after years of hard work, it just took her a lot longer to get there. All it took for her superiors to get that gleam in their eyes was the Ivy (or fancy LAC) degree of the job candidate. It got those graduates a foot in the door and a benefit of the doubt. I will assume that if they didn’t produce they were as out as anyone else with no Ivy pedigree. Unfair? Yes. Insurmountable? No. That said, it may be different for other fields. She worked for a financial firm.</p>
<p>Post #100 is something I’ve been saying for a long time on CC. It would be a far better system, imo. Right now, the elite schools that give the FA are risking losing the donut-hole kids, ie, the kids whose families are across the line for FA but not really rich. The 10 percent flat tuition charge would solve all of that. For some reason this whole idea seems to offend a lot of people – the notion that billionaires might pay a million to send their kid to Harvard. They prefer that sort of money be given directly to the endowments as “gifts.”</p>
<p>And regarding med school admissions - the Ivy pedigree helps. Premed weed-out classes are perhaps harder at Ivies where imposing a class curve is brutal. But the pedigree helps along the applications to med school. That’s pretty obvious. Also, the opportunities for life sci research are ridiculous. So I’d have to say going to an Ivy is a good idea if the objective is medical school - so long as it doesn’t blow the education budget for the family. And with FA today, for the majority it does not.</p>
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This may be true but I’m not sure the schools are very worried about it … but I do know the “donut hole” students are actually a very small slice of the population. 94% of the households in the US make less than $150k and the households in the $150k-$200k band are about 3% of the households. While this is huge issue for specific familes and the target audience of college confidential I’m not sure schools are losing a ton of sleep over the “donut hole”</p>
<p>More on household income … <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States</a></p>
<p>I would say that the authors have a very valid point. There are a lot of families taking out loans that are likely a very bad idea based on the assumption that any degree from an elite school will bring in a lot of money.
It’s fine to decide that money is not the most important thing to you. It’s another to make a bad fiscal choice based on incorrect information.</p>
<p>I’m just REALLY happy DS was rejected from Harvard and MIT. saved me about $100 K. Because I admit it would have been hard to turn it down.</p>
<p>depending on what you’re gonna study and what you want to do with your life some of those schools are worth the money.</p>
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<p>Huh? Berkeley is a state flagship…</p>
<p>But is the comparison actually valid without specifying how the different students compared against each other in math while they were all at the same high school? Are they all taking similar courses (e.g. calculus for scientists and engineers, calculus for social studies and business, honors calculus, sophomore level math, honor sophomore level math), and did they all go in with the same AP credit and AP scores (if any)?</p>
<p>Of course, with grade inflation, the median scores at a top university tend to translate into good grades.</p>
<p>I think this is a very fair idea. Up to full tuition of course. Otherwise Bill Gates’ kid has to pay a few billion, does not sound too fair.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus: I am considering Berkeley one of the elite schools despite the fact it’s a state school, because it is a top 10 rated university (unlike our mediocre state flagship.) Since the student is not from CA, her COA is much higher than if she had attended her own state flagship. The choice presented to these top students is often elite school for $$$, or state school for $ or nothing. </p>
<p>You make a good point about the math classes. No, I don’t know details. However, the Berkeley girl and one of the state flagship kids are both studying MechE, but may not be taking a comparable first year math class. But I do know that the Berkeley student won the physics award at our high school, so she is no slouch in mathy subjects, and yet she has to work super hard to pass. That was the point. Despite being extremely smart, she is struggling to do well. The flagship kids were getting A’s and without all the blood, sweat and tears. The education is simply not of the same caliber, IMO.</p>
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<p>How would you know what the financial aid package was if your child was never accepted? -_____- #blatantbitterness</p>
<p>^^^^EFC very high. We would be full freight. Believe me, no bitterness. My only point is, a rejection made it a whole lot easier, as I think it would have been hard to turn down such an honor as being accepted, yet shelling out over $200,000 would have been painful.</p>
<p>Why people use Harvard (or HYPMS) as benchmark for cost comparison? There are more happy people sending kids to many other private colleges that have the same cost and they don’t compare.</p>
<p>Ummm…re: post : 105. , sewhappy - grade inflation is well-known in the Ivies. From the folks I know in the medical field, an Ivy undergrad degree didn’t seem to make much,if any, difference in med school admissions. A friend in the field says - “Well, the Ivy kids will do well but that is largely because they are , largely, smart and hard working kids. I think most would do as well if they had gone to other schools.”</p>
<p>For me, if I were to attend Harvard, I wouldn’t be too fussed about jobs and pay so much. As a person who enjoys learning and research, what I would hope for at Harvard is being surrounded by passionate students - a group of peers/friends who are the cream of the crop - and 4 years of memories.</p>
<p>But maybe I’m just delusional.</p>
<p>fireeaterr…you’re a good example of why many readers here at CC have a distaste for HYP sycophants. </p>
<p>“surrounded by passionate students” “cream of the crop” “4 years of memories”</p>
<p>yup, only HYP can offer that. heck some of you even need to denigrate the other ivies by calling them “lesser ivies”. It’s this elitist attitude which many find offensive.</p>
<p>A few comments:
- At full pay, COA at Harvard is, in fact, cheaper than U of Michigan (OOS)
- Harvard is known to have grade inflation. There were many papers talking about that.
- In terms of getting a good job after graduation, it depends on the intended field of study. If you wish to get a job on the Wall Street, Ivies offer better chances. For studying computer science, I would choose U of Illinois over Harvard and Brown at any given day.
- You will meet more motivated kids at HYMPS. For competitive kids, that is a good environment to be in. For a kid who is not super smart and ultra-competitive, it can be a very humbling experience and perhaps and self esteem killer.</p>
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<p>As an engineering major with an MBA I just dont understand why schools do this - there is no reason 59 should be the mean. If the professor has taught the material well there should be kids scoring well on the exams. I was so discouraged in my engineering program that I had no desire to work as an engineer - I graduated with my 2.9 and went into marketing and later back to school for a Masters in Finance. My MBA experience (at the same school as my undergrad - top 10 MBA program) was dramatically different - very high expectations but there were always As on exams.</p>