Does having no EC's ruin my chances?

Applying to College
1

<p>I've been reading a lot of posts on here about Extracurricular activities, and it seems like everyone is volunteering 50 hours/week at a soup kitchen, picking up trash at their local park, and receiving international acclaim for their myriad nonacedemic endeavors.</p>

<p>Most of these people don't really care about these Extracurriculars, they are just signing up for everything they can, filling in as many variables in the equation for college admissions success as possible. So what if someone doesn't want to change their life just to get into a college? What if someone's priorities include being genuine instead of dishing out soup to people they don't care about?</p>

<p>Personally, I do not have time to volunteer everywhere. I've been sick most of my junior year. I'll be working at a local supermarket once I get well. But, really, I just don't want to do community service and leadership activities, anyway.</p>

<p>I'm nonreligious, nonethnic, and nonchalant. I don't care about poor people--all they have to do is try like I do, I'm not interested in captaining a soccer team or flaunting my multifarious talents to everyone possible, and I simply don't find it all that rewarding to get talked to by old people.</p>

<p>I like poker, I like playing video games, I like programming, I like running. But I would give up all of them without much of a fight. To some extent, I already have. Who cares?</p>

<p>The only thing I couldn't give up is the chance to learn. But apparently my ambition to learn doesn't matter to the institutions at which I would like to spend four years or more doing just that.</p>

<p>I have a 4.22 GPA, 3.80 UW, but I don't care about that. I have taken the most rigorous courseload possible, with no exception. I have taken advanced classes, equivalent to honors classes, which are not offered at my high school, solely to learn more. It never mattered if I've never been good at and have always hated Language Arts and History, I've taken as many advanced and AP classes as I can. I've doubled up on math classes, tripled up on AP science classes, and plan to take ten classes next year, including three at the local college and five AP classes (the last five my school has to offer me). My SAT will soon be 2300+, my ACT at least 34. But all this seems to dissipate to nothing when I say all I've done for Extracurriculars is play JV sports to get out of gym and take whatever competitive tests my teachers and peers recruit me for. </p>

<p>Are adaptability, realism, and independent thought irrelevant?
Do I have to help the community before I turn 18 to prove I can afterward?
Does being born into a poor family in a region devoid of inspiration and aspiration counterfeit all my other credentials?
Does my ability and hunger to learn count for nothing?</p>

2

<p>It depends on where you're applying. State universities, even top ones, basically pick students by whether you're a state resident; what your stats are.</p>

<p>Many private colleges pick students by their stats.</p>

<p>The colleges that weigh ECs in admission tend to be the private colleges like HPY, which have such an overabundance of high stat applicants that these colleges can afford to select students based on creating a well rounded class.</p>

3

<p>Well..with your stats..you'll still be great for a lot of colleges. However, if you want to get into the top echelon of colleges, you better suck it up and join some ECs....you're gonna have to do things you dont want to do your whole life....so i guess you might as well start now...</p>

<p>However, does your school have clubs...if so then found a poker club or programming club...if your school has a math or science team..join that. Or you could do nothing and be content with wherever you end up...but beware...i can serve soup, donate blood and play the bassoon at the same time :)..so watch out!</p>

4

<p>Your attitude needs some adjusting...I find it kind of sad...that you care so little for others and have no real interests in anything</p>

<p>so for 2 years of HS you did nothing but study...</p>

<p>aren't you bored and don't you want to grow at all...</p>

<p>whether it helps in the college hunt is irrelevant, it will help you in life</p>

<p>just sad to me</p>

5

<p>Not every kid is very involved in their communities and doesn't have incredible ECs. Surprise? Not really. I have a bunch of friends like the OP. Most aren't that smart. Many do drugs every day instead of study, so the OP is on a much better track than many other apathetic, ECless students. The OP just has to find what s/he is passionate about and work with that. I don't know what my true passion is, and find it hard to believe that most 17 or 18 year olds know what they really love and want to do. The OP would be in great shape for most colleges if s/he would just suck it up and join a few clubs. My friend got into UMD with a 3.4 GPA, 1900 SAT and 1 EC that he joined senior year. His numbers put him in a poor position for UMD, but he still got in with virtually 0 ECs. IMO, if you do something just to get into college, it just becomes a waste of time in the end. The OP just needs to experience more of the world and find that passion.</p>

6

<p>Even though it IS possible to get into a college w/ little to none EC's, most competitive colleges want to admit students who they will see as GIVING back to their community. EC's matter if you are planning on applying to a competitive college, while less selective colleges would probably be happy to enroll you based on your academics alone.</p>

7

<p>OP: Don't listen to anybody who tells you that you should do anything other than what you are intrinsically motivated to do. I may disagree with a few fine points of your philosophy, but your core values are excellent. </p>

<p>Citygirlsmom is the perfect example of somebody who seemingly doesn't understand the true beauty of learning. There are three types of achievers in the classroom environment.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Grade whores. These people do not care about learning anything. All they want is a good grade so they can get into a college. They will master the absolute minimum amount of the material so that they can get an A in the class and a 5 on whatever AP tests they take. Doing more than that is a waste of time to these people.</p></li>
<li><p>Lazy learners. The opposite of the grade whore, but significantly more rare. These people care very much about learning, but couldn't care less about what grade they get in the class. They may have a tendency to get the highest exam grades in the class, but not do any homework that they deem to be "busy work." These people are not to be mistaken with smart underachievers who simply do well on tests without studying. The lazy learner truly loves to learn, and may spend significant quantities of free time studying bizarre topics, but couldn't care less what grades they get in a class.</p></li>
<li><p>1 + 2. People who both love to learn and are grade whores. These are the people who get very little sleep.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with loving to learn. Most people in high school simply go for the best grade, and really couldn't give a crap about the material, except to treat it as a means to an end. If you are truly passionate about your studies, and focus on doing what you love, then some day I am sure you will be very happy and successful.</p>

<p>What is sad are the kids who spend their high school career trying to turn themselves into something they are not, in the hopes of getting into a certain school. To me, this defeats the whole purpose of learning, and is rather insulting. Don't force EC's onto yourself if you don't want to do them.</p>

<p>Go for the knowledge, buddy.</p>

8

<p>^Good post. Now tell that to the grade grubbers at my grade inflation factory of a high school.</p>

9

<p>Wow, so LEARNING is also about the world, not just books and to think it is is being naive</p>

<p>I DO find it sad that all a person does is study, while ignoring all that life has to offer is to be just really depressing</p>

<p>KNOWLEDGE is about all kinds of things, not jsut doing well on an AP Bio test and a lack of compassion for your fellow man is scary</p>

<p>Sure nothing wrong with studying 24-7, but having no interests at all outside the classroom makes for a very empty life</p>

<p>Sure, you can probably get into a fine school, but is your life full at all</p>

<p>You will of course say it is, but I really doubt it</p>

10

<p>You seem to be really opposed to everything I say, citygirlsmom... this post and the attendance one.</p>

<p>I don't care about people who obviously don't care about themselves. Poor people are lazy. I know it first hand. My parents are incredibly lazy, they never finish anything, and they don't aspire for greater things. Consequently, they're poor.</p>

<p>I haven't studied all that much in high school. I just focus very intently when I want to do something, and I love to learn, so I don't need to try to learn, it just happens.</p>

<p>I don't think that conforming to the rest of society makes me a better person, considering society is largely composed of fools and is made to protect fools. Society wants me to help those who refuse to do anything for themselves and find a passion in something that doesn't really matter.</p>

<p>And if you read between the lines, you'll see that I am interested in learning.</p>

<p>To northstarmom: I'm aiming for elite schools. I'd prefer MIT or Caltech, but UChicago, UPenn, Columbia, Stanford, and some others would be all right.</p>

<p>To the sultan: My school does have clubs, but all the clubs I would be interested in are composed of the type of people who are very smart, but who make an effort to not try in school. I don't like to be around people who want attention so much that they risk their future just to hear people say, "Everyone wishes they were as smart as you, but you don't even try. It's a waste."</p>

<p>I guess I sound a lot like a cynicist, a pessimist, and a misanthrope...</p>

11

<p>citygirlsmom, your condescending tone isn't really necessary here. </p>

<p>Word to Venkat89's whole post. That's exactly what I would have said.</p>

12

<p>citygirlsmom:</p>

<p>Who the heck are you to judge what makes a life empty or not? </p>

<p>There are so many things wrong with your posts that it makes it hard for me to even respond! </p>

<p>Provide me with some sort of objective list of "what life has to offer" and how that conflicts with him. "EC" to me means sports, random clubs, and getting strange awards for bizarre achievements in high school. Most of that has always come across as incredibly superficial to me, and not at all what life is like.</p>

<p>One thing I agree with is that knowledge is about all kinds of things. Test scores mean close to nothing, most of the time. I have no idea if this kid's life is full or not, but I do know that he was honest about his passion to learn, as opposed to turning himself into the ideal applicant, and that alone is something to be praised for.</p>

<p>As for being dedicated to learning leading to an empty life...I'm not even sure if that warrants a response.</p>

13

<p>There are a lot of bright people in the world. What elite national universities are looking for are applicants who will become leaders in their respective fields. ECs allow students to develop skills that will help to make them successful later in life. If you truly can run then go out for track and cross country - you don't have to volunteer or save the world but there's a lot more to life than poker or video games. It's time to grab life by the balls. Inspire us. You can do anything in life, unfortunately most people never understand this, and it's over much quicker than you think. It's your choice.</p>

14

<p>I'm not saying that a child that does nothing besides eat, sleep, study, and watch TV/play video games has a full life, or even a life. I used to be just like that though before I started high school (minus the constant study part). When I started high school I took it upon myself to be more outgoing and join clubs. When I started freshman year I was in about 20 clubs. By the end I was down to 3 that I actually enjoyed and am still a part of. People like the OP just need to go out into the world and try new things. Some break out of their shells sooner than others. Those like the OP has to make an effort to break out of that shell and have interests, activities, and passions, and if they don't it can lead to a lonely and hollow life. However, I don't believe in joining random clubs and doing random activities just to impress a college. Anything I have done just for college now just seems like a waste of time.</p>

15

<p>OP, i was just being facetious with my soup, blood bassoon comments. Do what ever floats your boat, as long as you dont commit a crime or something your future should be just fine. Really.</p>

16

<p>There is nothing wrong with learning, of course not, but if you have no passions about anything else, your life will be empty</p>

<p>and if you can't do more than just study, you will not succeed in life</p>

<p>sorry, but being an adult, I know that to be true</p>

<p>and the OPs lack of heart about anyone but him/herself is really sad to me</p>

<p>guess caring about anyone but yourself is alien to some</p>

<p>my point is if ALL you are dedicated to is learning, that is not enough in life...</p>

17

<p>"To northstarmom: I'm aiming for elite schools. I'd prefer MIT or Caltech, but UChicago, UPenn, Columbia, Stanford, and some others would be all right."</p>

<p>Assuming that your stats are sky high, CalTech would be your best bet because they care far more about stats than about ECs.</p>

<p>The other schools on your list, however, do care about ECs, so I think that your lack of ECs may make it even more difficult than normal to get into those colleges no matter how high your stats are.</p>

<p>I also agree with citygirlsmom's comments.</p>

18

<p>as far as being GENIUNE, what a bunch of hogwash...and a cop out</p>

<p>Who Cares? obviously the OP cares about nothing much at all, and that will shine through on his recommendations, his essays, etc</p>

<p>"well, he is a could student, works hard in class...um...doesn't do much of anything else..."</p>

19

<p>I guess I'll be the first student to back up the parents here. In principle, I agree with the OP--you should do what YOU want to do, what makes YOU happy. You should live for yourself, not for other people. But you can't expect colleges that can choose from the top students/leaders/talents in the country to bend to your philosophy on life, if it doesn't include a least decent extras (as well as top academics and test scores, etc.). I have had to accept this as well, and I have a lot more involvment that what you described. You can still shoot for the top, but you need to be realistic...it is very very very hard to be admitted with no demonstration of leadership or initiative or particular passion. You have to make some effort here. </p>

<p>It is not my intention to argue with people over their personal beliefs online, and you are certainly entitled to believe what you will. But I will tell you this: you will not be met with a lot of sympathy with the attitude that poor people are all lazy and don't deserve help and that the world is comprised almost completely of fools, no matter how true you may believe or find that to be. You will not find a lot of sympathy for a woe is me attitude. You will not find a lot of love from people you implicitly insult. It does not seem that you currently have the high test scores, so not even that is for certain. I disagree with your personal beliefs, but I'm not saying this because of that. I'm telling you the reality of the situation: your attitude will not endear you to many people, including admissions people. </p>

<p>You say that you love to learn, and you very well may, which is great. But you are up against kids who love to learn, got great grades, great scores, are great writers, and have impressive extras. Not everyone has to be great in all categories...but you have to be at least decent in your weak categories to be up for serious consideration. Again, try for those great schools--but do your homework and have matches and safeties, as well. </p>

<p>I'm repeating this one more time, although I'm sure I will get angry replies anyway: I have not written this post to try and correct your personal beliefs. I'm just repeating what I have read in EVERY SINGLE COLLEGE ADVICE BOOK: bitter, cynical applicants are not attractive to colleges. They just aren't. I doubt that you would be happy at these colleges anyways--most kids there are pretty involved and wouldn't take to your attitudes about extras very well.</p>

20

<p>I agree with the OP with many things.</p>

<p>You choose your individual path in life. If you want to learn, great do so and if you want to monger grades then nobody is stopping you. Morals and norms fail most of the time; if you change your life to fit what others expect of you or try to do something in the expectation of changing yourself, you've essentially put yourself at the mercy of society.</p>

<p>It's funny how people complain of how convoluted Ivy admissions are. But in the process they elevate HPY to a godlike status by constructing it as a "perfect" college that should be an absolute meritocracy when frankly, it's not.</p>

<p>You can get a great education anywhere you go. I have a 2300 on the SAT, two perfect scores on SAT IIs, more than 5 5s for AP exams, but I still plan on going to a state school because I don't like the pretentiousness of private schools. I just like to hang out with my friends on weekends, play counter-strike, and watch porn. It's what I like to do, and I'm not letting anyone change me.</p>

<p>And about poor people- a lot of poor people ARE lazy, but you have to recognize that not everyone "deserves" to be poor. I know some poor people who either don't know English or are severely disabled or otherwise intrinsically unable to be wealthy. But I do agree with the merits of hard work, my parents came here with only 100 US dollars and managed to become fairly wealthy. See, hard work does pay off.</p>