You might want to take a look at Drexel - good programs with coops and not too difficult to get into, but very expensive so you would need a good financial aid package.
Good luck.
OP- to answer your question as everyone has posted- no. He does not need to be an A student to get into a good program. But I think the parallel question needs to be “can he get in AND out of a good engineering/comp sci school” and that is a much more subtle question.
If you search through old threads you will see that every November and January parents (and kids) are freaking out because they’re going into finals (or have just finished finals) and are tracking towards academic probation. In June you will see parents posting that their kids have been asked not to return to their college. And throughout the year kids post asking for help with their appeal letter, i.e. “I know I have a 1.6 GPA but please let me stay at this college”.
I think there are some commonalities which are worth considering before applying.
1- Merit Aid- it’s a double edged sword. It’s wonderful to be wanted, and if it makes an otherwise unaffordable college possible, it’s fantastic. But you and your son need to make sure that the terms aren’t so onerous that he’ll be on the verge of losing his aid just as he’s starting to get into the swing of managing college level work.
2- Loans- There are thousands of kids in America who owe thousands (and tens of thousands) of dollars for degrees which they don’t have and are not on track to get. Dropping out sophomore year to regroup- not uncommon. But there are no “do-over’s” financially. If your son decides after a semester or two of a break that he really wants to major in econ or urban planning, AND he’s going to need an extra semester or year to fulfill the obligations AND he’s still got to pay off the loans for his Freshman year of being an engineering major… boy, that’s a lot of loans.
3- Work style- know your kid. If he’s a procrastinator- fix it now (or rather, encourage him to fix it now). College courses move at warp speed compared to HS, and CS and Engineering are not paced the way his HS classes are. He will have problem sets every week. If he doesn’t do them or falls behind or only completes partially, he will find it very, very difficult to catch up over a long weekend. If he’s not a procrastinator, but takes a little while longer than other kids to absorb new material, encourage him to work on his core reading and writing skills. Speed counts in college. If he is neither of these- and just is reluctant to ask for help, or get the teacher to explain something twice… he needs to get over that. Professors have office hours; TA’s run tutorials, kids run their own study sessions/reviews. Nobody gets through an engineering program without stumbling- and that’s what these backup mechanisms are for. But if he’s got a pattern of not asking for help this will hurt him in college.
4- Sleep- what can I say, he’s a teenager? But if I added up all the kids in real life who I know who started in CS or engineering and then ultimately dropped into something else (or left without a degree) I would probably note that sleep was the common denominator. There are some kids who routinely burn the candle at both ends and can make up for it without hurting their ability to function. There are some kids who are so disciplined that their lights will be out by midnight even when there’s a party raging in the next dorm room- and they will wake refreshed 7 hours later.
But many cannot or will not or have had so much parental support in HS that you just don’t know how he will function and regulate himself on his own. And if the combination of a party-hearty dorm, or lots of social distractions, or a fun non-classroom life starts to erode your son’s sleep, it won’t take long for a C- on a quiz to become an incomplete for the semester, then a W (withdrawn) and before you know it, he’s a semester behind and his advisor is gently asking if he’d like to consider a different major.
I’m sure the other posters can add — and I don’t want to be a debbie downer. But put some time and discussion with your son into figuring out the right environment for him to be successful, not just a college which will admit him to CS or engineering. Getting in is the easy part.
dadinator-will definitely look at Drexel! Thanks for the well wishes.
blossom-wow! This statement resonates with me " But I think the parallel question needs to be “can he get in AND out of a good engineering/comp sci school” and that is a much more subtle question."
Work style-I’m just not sure what his style is. He’s very self sufficient and I do believe he is hesitant to ask for help, which can be detrimental. I will talk to him about this. Excellent point!
Sleep-Big, big issue with teens and young adults. I just don’t know how he will perform under that amount of pressure.
Thank you so much for bringing up these points. Especially your point if it’s easy to get in, but harder to stay in.
What about CNU?
I second RIT.
Run the net price calculator for those, as well as Rose Hulman, Stevens. If he’s interested in co-op, UCincinnati may be cheaper than Drexel and its co op program is one of the best in the country.
I second the Rose Hulman suggestion.
Data point of one. My son had an 86/100 average and 1260 M/CR sat. So similar to your son, but without the extracurriculars. Much better math score than verbal. He did come out of a very good independent school, but is out of state for Virginia. He was accepted into engineering programs at Virginia Tech, UMBC, and Rose Hulman.
So I think your son has a good shot at all of those. We only were offered merit at Rose Hulman, but it was still pricey.
RIT is a very good option/idea if he can deal with the weather.
In the end mine opted not to go into engineering after all, but I wish yours all the best!!!
“What about CNU?” That could be a good instate one to look at also. They do have computer science. Nice campus.
I’ve also heard good things about Christopher Newport from a recent grad who is now my coworker. It sounds like a tight-knit school where the professors are very accessible to the students.
I’m that person who always mentions Rose-Hulman. My fiancé, who graduated from there a couple of years ago with a CS degree, was a B+/SAT 1950/ACT 27 high school student who also had a brilliant programming mind and a passion for robotics. Rose is harder to get into than when he applied, but the school is very good about picking out the kids they believe will succeed and then nurturing them when they arrive. It boasts nice facilities, extremely bright and dedicated professors, and a fantastic track record in the job market (so much so that his admittedly hefty student loans are all paid off now).
Amarylandmom, sometimes it can actually be easier for an OOS kid to get admitted to a good public engineering program . Schools want diversity, OOS tuition, yields are lower with OOS kids , etc. A lot of the possibility for OP’ s chances at a place like VT depends on what his GPA means in the context of his school and where his school is located. Kids in NOVA and other cities in Virginia are competing with many other high stats kids. VT had 9000 applications this year for 1650 engineering slots. The average admit has a 3.9+ GPA. No need to take it off the list but good to add other instate options as well as any privates that are within the budget.
MYOS1634- CNU is on our list. We’re just trying to figure out a way to hit as many schools as we can during his spring break. I’ve heard wonderful things about the school! I’m not familiar with Rose Hulman, but since you and dadinator recommend it, I will do some research. Thank you! Also, RIT is on our list to research.
amarylanmom-thank you for the encouragement. At the very least, we can tour the school. maybe it will inspire him or maybe he won’t want to go to a big school.
Finlet-congrats to your fiance! Another vote for CNU and Rose Hulman. My interest is definitely piqued. Thank you!
sevmom-we are from NOVA and Tech is one of the top choices for many. It seems it may be a stretch. Thank for your insight . At least we have a longer list and other options now, thanks to all of you who responded.
RIT, CNU and Rose Hulman
@sevmom, wow I didn’t realize that. I definitely don’t want to create false hope so glad you chimed in.
What about Purdue? Great school and easier to get into compared to other Big 10 schools. I will also add to the list of RIT fans. My daughter and I were very impressed when we visited. Someone mentioned SUNY’s. Albany has a brand new engineering program. I think it’s very limited. The other three with engineering are Binghamton, Buffalo, and Stony Brook. Bing has become more difficult to get into. Of those three, I think it’s easiest to get into Buffalo and it’s a good program. If your son is ok with cold weather, maybe he wants to look at Clarkson.
Good luck!
Hi amarylandmom, and I certainly didn’t want to take away from your son’s accomplishments. It is just interesting when you see the chess game sometimes. Kids that didn’t get into Maryland or Cal poly engineering in their home states so they end up at VT. Instate kids in Virginia that didn’t get into VT engineering and ended up at Maryland , Purdue, etc. Virginia schools have been pretty popular with Virginia residents even before the recession, unlike some states where their publics were until recently (thanks to the economy) seen as not that desirable by some people… Good to see the SUNY’ s getting more recognition.
Rose Hulman is a great school, but not for everyone. My DS was initially interested, but changed his mind after a visit. The campus reminded me of a NOVA campus (Northern Virginia community college). About the same physical size with parking lots out front. It was super quiet when we visited and we saw only a handful of kids walking around. It’s in a suburban area of town and I would think you’d need a car to go to restaurants or other entertainment.
It’s great for some kids (DS knows a couple of kids there) but not a typical campus and likely not a typical college experience. Definitely visit to see for yourself. We combined it with a visit to several engineering schools in the Midwest – Northwestern, Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, etc. last March. A lot of driving but easy to hit one school a day.
Michigan State offers in-state tuition to students invited to the Honors College. Your son’s stats might be competitive depending on his test scores. I think West Virginia has relatively low OOS tuition, as does Ole Miss. Flagship state schools generally have pretty solid engineering programs.
My wife’s two brothers graduated from Michigan Tech. It’s impossible to get to, but they both loved it and have done very well since graduating.
Rose Hulman has a summer program called Operation Catapult where students can try out an engineering project for three weeks. My D2 did it summer before senior year (that is the only year students can attend). She decided from that experience that she did not want to be an engineer, but she still enjoyed her project and it was better to learn that before heading off to college. She is currently a CS major (dabbling in Physics still, though, and could still switch to that). Rose Hulman gives the kids who attend OC a tuition break for all 4 years if they end up attending, and also makes the application super simple for OC kids – I think they knocked $2,000/year off for the year my kid went. They announce it at the end of camp as a big “surprise”, but apparently they do this every year. Still a pricey school, and the camp isn’t free, but if your kid is seriously interested in Rose Hulman AND wants to get an engineering experience this summer, it is something to consider.
The OP says they can afford about $25,000 a year. Some of the schools being suggested here will be more costly than that. Purdue is one. Unless he gets a good a out if aid, Rose Hulman won’t be $25,000 a year either.
Why do all of these visits have to take place during spring break? You live in NOVA…why not visit some on Saturdays. There have to be at least a handful of the instate schools that could be a day trip.
Virginia is a large state. Hours between campuses. If looking beyond instate schools, there could be many reasons-cost is not an issue, merit or need based aid is available, legacy, family nearby in another area, fit,etc. Most kids stay fairly local , within a couple hundred miles, but some people look beyond that. Lots of kids go to community college so any college away from home is a luxury.
@sevmom, so interesting as my son was accepted to College Park, but not the engineering school. I just assumed in state schools were easier to get into for in state residents, lol, but I am glad you have more insight for the OP. I lurk here all the time and still learn new things.
We also visited Rose Hulman. I thought their small campus was lovely with very nice facilities for the size. My son thought it was too much like a high school. The campus is definitely missing a college town. I think a visit would really help.
I chimed in earlier as a parent looking at similar lists. After reading the post by @blossom , I will reiterate the points made in that post from my viewpoint as a math college prof . I think it is worthwhile to keep in mind that the public universities which may be easier to get into still have a “weed out” mentality when it comes to engineering . The course load for engrg. majors are similar for all ABET accredited programs. Lower grades in high school English/ social studies/language courses (and lower CR scores in the SAT) possibly indicate an issue with reading skills which are magnified with a college course, where the pace is much faster.
This is in the back of my mind as I help my child choose a college that is a reasonable fit. As parents, we want a good college experience for our children and often we look at components which are non-academic. But the reality is that college is about staying in with a decent GPA - more so than about getting in. It’s hard to predict what may happen in any particular program, but it’s good to have a “drop down” track or major as a backup. In CS (the field my kid is interested in), it’s worthwhile to look into the program to see if it’s theoretical or more hands-on , or if they have both tracks, or an IT or MIS track. In Engrg, there is no “drop down” track. The technology track has vanished from many universities from the 1980’s when I was an undergrad.