<p>The Rhodes is a geographic competition. Each college or university can only nominate one undergraduate from each state for the competition. (You can compete either for your home state or the state in which your college is located.) So, if the fellowship committee thinks it matters, the candidate will not get through the fellowship committee and will not “win” the nomination for his college. Game over. </p>
<p>You can’t just leave out the information.First, the application is detailed. Second, I’ve never heard of a college or university that didn’t include a grueling interview as part of the application process, since the Rhodes selection at both the state and regional level involves interviews. The likelihood you won’t be asked about any glaring holes in your app is virtually non-existent. </p>
<p>MANY candidates who did not get their university nomination have reapplied as graduate students–the rules are different for grad student apps and in many cases, the grad schools attended by those who failed to get the nomination from the colleges they attended as undergrads are located in different states, which may be less competitive. SOME of these have won a Rhodes. It’s not at all rare.</p>
<p>To some extent, who wins at the state level depends upon who shows up to do the interviews. The Rhodes often uses former Rhodes scholars. Since in the old days, there was a marked preference for athletes, many of the winners were college jocks. (That’s still true to a small degree.) Many of these went into business. It is not unknown for them to choose the candidate who is NOT the academic type. Remember, the Oxford faculty does NOT have ANYTHING to do with choosing the winners.</p>
<p>I just happen to know (without ESP or clairvoyance) that IB paid summer internships typically run about 10-12 weeks. That’s not a secret and is fairly common knowledge.</p>
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<p>I agree that one could do something equally worthwhile with the 3-4 weeks left before returning to school. </p>
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<p>No, and neither did I. I was simply pointing out the potential problems with omitting what you might be doing for 10+ weeks the summer before senior year. I was making a little light-hearted joke that securing a competitive paid internship and working hard over the summer is something students should be proud of (rather on the opposite end of the spectrum from “bar-hopping in the Keys.”) Forgive me for not including the proverbial smiley face. Here-- I’ll do it now. ;)</p>
<p>Bottom line --all else being equal-- I do not think this would be a negative on an application. From my perspective, omitting it (leaving blank what you did the majority of the summer before your senior year) would be. Trust me, if you didn’t put it on the application, it will come up in the interview. No doubt.</p>
<p>Also, just my opinion. ;)</p>
<p>I agree with the last paragraph of the above poster, Inthebiz, and jonri’s post as well. Good points.</p>
<p>As this is a 2nd hand story, there may have been more said directly to the candidate – in addition to stating that the IB internship was a problem.</p>
<p>Xiggi’s post is excellent and likely right on target. MIT probably had candidates they think are stronger in this particular year.</p>
<p>I got curious and did a quick Google search. Of course, this is from 1998, and there may be some more recent-- but check out Adeel Qalbani, who graduated from Princeton with a degree in Economics.</p>
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<p>Wow. “summer internships in investment banking”-- as in plural. So, that’s at least one. I’m sure there are more. These former Rhodes Scholars often sit on the committees, too. I seriously doubt it’s unusual or a negative (again, all other things being equal).</p>
<p>The purpose of an IBanking summer internship is not to gain valuable experience and have fun living in NY while making enough money to pay your expenses during senior year (even if that’s the students goal). The purpose on an Ibanking internship as far as the bank is concerned is to cherry pick the entry level class for next years hires. So if the kid in question did well over the summer, he’d go back to campus with an offer in hand and an expectation that by October/November he’d be ready to accept that offer.</p>
<p>It would be foolish of MIT to support a kid’s fellowship application for the coming academic year if that kid had alreaady committed to a June or July start date for a full time job. Either the kid reneges on his commitment to JP Morgan if he gets a fellowship, or the school is wasting a sponsorship on a kid who couldn’t possibly accept since he’d already accepted a full time job offer.</p>
<p>OK? Has nothing to do with the perceived noteworthiness of one type of internship over another- just the reality (which is quite transparent) that a kid can’t both be at Oxford and NYC at the same time.</p>
<p>The underbelly to this is that if the kid messed up at JP Morgan and didn’t get an offer, he would of course be free to pursue a fellowship. How badly the mess up would be and how much disclosure would be involved to an interview committee for the Rhodes is beyond my area of expertise!</p>
<p>My nephew interned at one of the big banks the summer before winning a Marshall (and making it to the Rhodes finalist stage). While you must have some public service credentials on your resume, they are also looking for really smart kids who can make a difference, as evidenced by your future plans as detailed on an application. BTW the big banks and consulting firms love hiring fellowship winners.</p>
<p>ernie: Yes, without checking, I would have guessed there might be a number of those Rhodes or Marshalls who are now at top consulting and banking firms.</p>
<p>Your information is outdated/innacurate. There is no longer a state rhodes competition. It is now 16 different regional/district competitions, with two winners from each. Colleges are not capped in their number of nominees to a district, but it does not make much sense to nominate more than two, lest they compete with each other. BTW, both of the winners for district 10 this year were from Illinois and the U. of Chicago. </p>
<p>Regarding I-banking, a few of the posters above summarized it well. Just consider why most kids pursue IB internships. The rhodes selectors know this too, so there is a presumption of, shall we say, “high self interest” to be overcome, as inthebiz stated. I’m sure there is also an experience factor (perhaps less than ideal outcomes with past scholars with the IB experience?)</p>
<p>There is another factor that could be in play here: being “among the top students” may not be enough, depending on how broad the “among” pool is. The committee is not just looking for a high GPA. To win takes something beyond that, something that shows up in faculty references and word of mouth. This individual could never know how he really stacks up against the competition, but the scholarship office knows. Perhaps the IB internship is not the whole story, but is a gentle way to let the guy down?</p>
<p>Do IBs and consulting firms go after Rhodes Scholars? Of course. It starts right after winners are announced. So there is no question some end up employed there. The firms even advertise the fact.</p>
<p>D.E. Shaw, a quant fund, likes to hire students who are Rhodes Background. However, being a qauntfund hedge fund, it is no fun for humanities kids unless applicant graduates in mathematics or math/econ combination.</p>
<p>By the by, Mr. Qalbani (referenced in my earlier post as someone who had spent more than one summer working at investment banking firms and who won the Rhodes in '98) got married this past summer, 2007. It was in the NY Times. Here’s what he does now:</p>
<p>Let’s be careful to distinguish what winners do AFTER they finish at Oxford and what they do before they win. </p>
<p>Let us hypothesize, for a moment, that the Rhodes Trust is looking for people that will change the world, with high empathy for the less advantaged (not saying this is the case, just making an example). As already mentioned by others, doing an IBanking internship is not thought by most adults to be an indicator of such traits. But, why is it so surprising that some of these same world changers will conclude, after two or more years of maturity and education, that the best path for them to accomplish their world changing goals personally is through finance?</p>
<p>Strikes me as a pretty rational approach. </p>
<p>To put it another way, seeking an internship while in college in certain fields signals something very different than an employment choice.</p>
<p>You may also notice that Qalbani seems to have done a rather less than traditional I banking internship.</p>
<p>newmassdad: Yes, I absolutely agree with your comments. My point is that regardless of what else was on his resume (and I’m not privy to that-- but perhaps you are), he did, in fact, spend more than one summer doing IB internship(s). I doubt seriously he’s the first (or the last) potential Rhodes Scholar to do so.</p>
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<p>Yes, and this particular Scholar did IB internship(s) BEFORE he won and went to Oxford.</p>
<p>Again, all things being equal, I do not think a banking internship would hurt a prospective Scholar. By “all things being equal,” I mean-- the person would have to have a lot of additional impressive (perhaps even connected) involvement going on, which would obviously enhance his/her background for this particular fellowship. Certainly, I agree with your assessment in the post above about what they might be looking for in a potential Scholar.</p>
<p>As an aside, I don’t know where you picked up that his particular IB summer internship(s) were “less than traditional” as my earlier post never suggested that:</p>