<p>As a parent with your kid getting turned down or wait listed at yale/harvard/penn/brown/princeton/columbia/duke/northwestern/rice/wash u/stanford etc.. does score mean anything during admission? Sometimes as parent you think that when your kid gets act score of 33+ and sat 2200+ in the first try is it enough? What does the university look for? When I see the forum with kids with perfect scores rejected or waitlisted I feel sorry for them. Does class ranking, gpa, score mean anything?</p>
<p>^^^^Of course it does. It just doesn’t guarantee anything. There MUST be more to the student than numbers. The schools say this over and over and over. I don’t think everyone listens.</p>
<p>High stats gets the student in the door, but as the admissions counselor from Caltech told us, it takes more than that to be admitted. They want to see someone who not only will be a good fit for their school but who will contribute something to the community. How they decide this last piece varies from school to school.</p>
<p>No, those schools actually just collect random kids from the street corners in a big green bus.</p>
<p>It doesn’t mean as much as it used to.</p>
<p>It means that the test scores won’t be the reason for rejection. But there are plenty of other reasons for rejection at the most selective schools – getting near maximum in academic credentials is necessary, but not sufficient, for admission.</p>
<p>I read an article on here a while back, and schools are moving away from the standardized test as an admissions tool. </p>
<p>I think they just have a base line and you have to tag it to get to the next round. So, yeah, I don’t think it is an acceptance criteria so much as a consideration criteria at these schools you listed. Like, if you want a job, you have to have graduated from college, but then, once you get past that, they want to know who you are. </p>
<p>At other schools, it means quite a bit. But, I don’t think those are the schools you are talking about. </p>
<p>Then, they begin the selection process.</p>
<p>Lookingforward is a poster on here who knows a lot about how it works.</p>
<p>2400 helps. I had a bad GPA (3.74), but also good ECs. SAT and ECs probably carried me.</p>
<p>I ended up accepted at:
Stanford, Penn, Vanderbilt, Duke, Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Yale, and Harvard.</p>
<p>And URM.</p>
<p>Students are told at their schools that high GPAs mean a ticket to wherever they want, so kids work hard, sacrifice and DON’T end up at that dream school even with amazing stats. Clearly something needs to change and I really believe this should start with guidance counselors. </p>
<p>I’ve been very upfront with D about the realities of highly selective schools. Her biggest challenge will be finding a safety that she can live with and be thrilled with.</p>
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<p>In another thread, you mentioned that she wants to major in physics and/or math.</p>
<p>Consider Stony Brook University, part of the SUNY system. It is well respected for physics and math, despite its lowly general reputation, is somewhat selective but is likely safety level for a student with a realistic chance at the Caltech-level schools, and is relatively inexpensive even for out of state students.</p>
<p>Thanks UCB, we are planning a trip out east this summer and NY is on our list. I’ll put it on D’s list to check out.</p>
<p>Scores for the majority of elite school admits seem to be pretty compressed these days, so it is hard to believe that a few extra points would make a difference on a test that does not have a very high ceiling. What I have noticed is fewer admits for lop-sided students who might have one score below 700.</p>
<p>As for math/physics majors - the math/physics majors at any of a number of state schools seem to be a self-selecting group, with stats that are similar to elite school admits, especially if only math/science scores are considered.</p>
<p>In these cases, perfect or near perfect stats can still pave the way for impressive merit money, as the cut-off in scores for merit money seems to have risen steadily over the years.</p>
<p>It means a lot. THe way most selective schools work, they have a matrix of sorts where students get a score for test scores, grades/rank, difficulty of courses taken in high school, essay, recs, and ECs. Some areas may be more heavily weighted than others, and there are also the “tags” for those kids lucky enough to have something on a school’s wish list. But test scores are important and you won’t see many kids with low test scores getting into the most selective schools. </p>
<p>However, most schools categorize test scores so that a 2400or a 2390 might be in the same category as a 2340, for example, where all 3 scores might qualify for an “A” grade for test scores in the admissions perusal. Also a lot of selective school will add the SAT2 scores in the mix and want a 5 score total rather than 3. This has been the case for some time now with schools that require SAT2s. Some may also include AP scores in the mix, though many will put those in the Curriculum difficulty category. </p>
<p>So you can see that while test scores are important, they are just one part of the picture. A certain level, barring no compensating factor can get an applicant eliminated and a certain level could automatically keep an applicant under consideration, because all selective schools do keep an eye out on the average scores for their school so that selectivity rank is not compromised. </p>
<p>I’ve seen outraged parents who cite their kids perfect SAT1 score and higher gpa over another kid in the same school, and selection at a top school favored the lower stat kid, but upon further questioning, it becomes clear why. The other kid might have higher Sat2, or be in the same category as the kid with the higher score so the difference is eliminated in terms of it counting. The other kid could have taken extra courses else where and more difficult ones. That my son took a number of APs his junior year and did well on them, reallly enhanced his application and made him a candidate for some schools more selective than his lackluster GPA would initially indicate. That another son took courses his senior year at a top 50 university and did well in them was another big deal to a school–and a lot of them do not look at community college courses in the same light.</p>
<p>And top SAT1 scores are the biggest factor in most merit awards, I have found.</p>
<p>It does mean something. Some schools publish acceptance rates correlated with test scores. Here is Brown’s.
[Admission</a> Facts | Undergraduate Admission](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)
The higher the test score, the higher the acceptance rate. However, the acceptance rate is still low.</p>
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<p>In my opinion, it should start with the parents. They have much more influence over the kids than anyone else. And while hard work and sacrifice won’t guarantee they’ll gain admittance to the dream school, NOT working hard will pretty much guarantee that they won’t.</p>
<p>The answer is yes and no. It will get you initially into the serious consideration pile. Beyond that, I believe that AO’s look at the context of your environment. Evaluating the rigor of a transcript, LOR, and leadership roles in school/community. In the end, they want to know did you make the most of the opportunities given to you. Lastly, I think they are looking for a real person beyond the numbers expressed in the applicant’s essays to determine how passionate or authentic the applicant is and whether a good fit for the school. There is a lot of room for subjectivity in the process which moves it into the great mystery of college admissions.</p>
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<p>I just want to point out that this does not necessarily mean that someone will directly increase their chances by increasing their SAT score.</p>
<p>Oh, c’mon people - we all know it’s a crapshoot!! These adcoms have 25-30,000 applications to go through - do you really think they can discern one kid over the other with the amount of essays and ec’s they have to go through?? The whole process is a horrible mess.</p>
<p>I think you need to give the adcoms a little more credit than that. One thing to keep in mind is that, in addition to considering the relative merits of each individual, the smaller elites are building a class. So if your kid is one of so many interested in computer science, for example, he probably is up against stiffer competition than someone who wants to be a classicist. (I recommend reading “The Gatekeepers” or one of the other fine books about admissions for anyone helping a high achieving student navigate the process.)</p>
<p>A perfect SAT (or ACT) will give you bragging rights and something to hold over your kids when it is their turn to take the tests. It won’t get you into any one school, even with better grades than mentioned by one poster. Wanting to go to a school and a host of other tangible and intangible factors count. There are too many good students for elite schools to choose from- they can’t take everyone who would do well. In that sense it is random luck/chance for the pool of top students. The best bet is to have a student apply to those elite schools they actively want to but also have other schools they could be happy at.</p>
<p>Note- my kid got the SAT 2400 shortly after his 16th birthday senior year of HS. Went to an excellent state flagship he told his aunt he would choose over Stanford (can’t blame him based on the two campuses). He wouldn’t even look at Harvard when close to it and wouldn’t apply to other Ivies, etc. The east coast is not on the Midwest radar as much as for those from that region.</p>