<p>The three schools are obviously very different. Does it really matter which one you go to, particularly if you're heavily leaning toward med school but are still undecided? Close friend has to choose between these three and I'd like an opinion other than my own.</p>
<p>UChicago and Middlebury are elite colleges but Temple is not. Will s/he have to take out loans ? Which college does s/he like ?</p>
<p>Cost is essentially negligible, as the net price calculator for Mid and Chicago have everything covered with only a 2k yearly loan apart of the Middlebury package. Likely full-tuition scholarship to Temple and she would probably live at home. She doesn’t have a particular academic preference, all three provide very different things.</p>
<p>Mid provides a bucholic setting and the best language program out of all three (she’s a linguaphile – accepted to Midd’s language honors program and received a fellowship to go spend a summer at a Midd immerson school for grad students for free!). Med school placement doesn’t seem to be too shabby.</p>
<p>Chicago provides the most academically rigorous option of the three, and the best fit [at least, IMO]. While grade deflation is a problem there, its in its own world and thus I think it’d do the best strategic placement for med. She’s the study hard, party hard type, so I think Chicago, particularly with research opportunities and notable alumni in every field, allows her the most flexibility, should she decide to change her mind (she’s locked into the language department at Midd).</p>
<p>Temple is the most familiar. She has a bit of anxiety about leaving home, and living in our hometown by going to Temple provides her with the most familiar setting, considering that she was WL by Penn today. She seems to be of the opinion that the connections she develops at Temple will be the same as those she develops at UChicago, but I find this extremely hard to believe. She talked to someone who went to Stanford for a year, came back home to Temple, loved it, and then went to Chicago for grad school, but I think their case is an extreme abnormality. </p>
<p>She doesn’t actually like anything about Temple, but a bit of nervousness is seriously influencing her decision, and I don’t think she’s being particularly rational. I suppose the question is, does anyone actually care about prestige in the real world? Will the experience at Temple be that comparable in opportunity to UChicago?</p>
<p>If she does not like anything about Temple, then she will likely not be happy and studies might suffer. It all boils down to what kind of environment she likes. University of Chicago is a big research university and that provides a lot of opportunities. It is in the city and although the transit lines don’t go right on campus like they do where I am a faculty member (Illinois Institute of Technology), the city is an exciting place. Middlebury offers a more intimate relationship with faculty but the research opportunities are certainly more limited.</p>
<p>Prestige is overrated for getting into graduate or medical school. If the student is strong and has done the right things to prepare herself then she can get into a good medical school.</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
<p>WTH? Go to Chicago and don’t look back. It is one of the best schools in the country and worth every penny. </p>
<p>Temple? Middlebury? No. Go to Chicago.</p>
<p>Does it matter? It depends on what you mean by matter. The qualitative experience of those schools will be different. Chicago and Middlebury will be filled with top students - even the very bottom students will have been in the top 25% of their high school classes, and accomplished students to boot. There are opportunities at those schools that may be unavailable at other places, and the environment may be intellectually stimulating in a way that Temple won’t be. I mean, I liked my small LAC and the students there were driven and ambitious. But I’m a grad student at Columbia and the students here are on a completely different level as far as prior accomplishments and future endeavors. Had I come here for undergrad (and I’m glad I went to my school - but as a thought experiment) I would’ve been exposed to things I never imagined possible, and probably learned a lot about options I didn’t know existed.</p>
<p>A motivated and driven student can access top graduate schools/med schools from virtually anywhere, including Temple. If cost is negligible, though, and the cost would be the same at either place, I would definitely not even consider Temple. You have two of the best schools in the nation available at an affordable price.</p>
<p>Do people care about prestige? Yes, they do. While people can be successful from any school and it won’t matter much once she has a graduate degree, I have noticed that people give my Columbia pedigree a second look when I mention it. It impresses people. I’ve no doubt (and have been told) that some of the recent interest in my CV, as I look for postdocs, comes from the fact that I am being trained at an Ivy League university. Plus, prestigious schools offer intangible things like I mentioned above - intellectually driven classmates, better resources, better career centers, more connected alumni networks. If this was a cost issue, it wouldn’t matter, as she could succeed anywhere; however, given the choice, she should certainly choose UChicago or Middlebury. The network she forms at either one of those schools (but especially UChicago, as you opine) will be vastly different than the kind of network she forms at Temple. I mean, my LAC classmates were no slouches and many of them have recently graduated from prestigious med schools or law schools or are finishing up PhD programs now at top places, like me. But coming to a place like this, or like UChicago, you meet future hedge fund managers and investment bankers and ambassadors and people like that. It’s just qualitatively <em>different</em>.</p>
<p>At this point I think it would be down to personal choice. You sound like you’re a fan of Chicago but that you are trying to convince your daughter. Personally, I know I’d thrive in a small and intimate environment in a bucolic setting more than a quirky place like UChicago in a gritty city like Chicago, so I would choose Middlebury over UChicago even if people perceive it as better. Really, Middlebury is consistently ranked in the top 5 colleges in the country so I don’t think there’s too much difference re: selectivity and prestige between them (reputation is different; more people are familiar with UChicago than Midd, but the people who need to know Midd know Midd. The job prospect “second look” may be a bit different outside of the Northeast/East Coast, though; more people in, say CA or OR or TX will be familiar with UChicago than Midd).</p>
<p>She talked to someone who went to Stanford for a year, came back home to Temple, loved it, and then went to Chicago for grad school, but I think their case is an extreme abnormality.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s an “extreme” abnormality. I know many people who went to more prestigious graduate schools than their undergrad was. I myself dreamed of attending Columbia as an undergrad, but couldn’t afford it. I went to a top 100 LAC on a full merit scholarship and ended up at Columbia for graduate school.</p>
<p>Still, I say she should choose Chicago or Midd.</p>
<p>Temple has its own Med-School, and there are a number of med schools in the Philadelphia area (Penn, Jefferson, etc.). Seems to me if she is U. of Chicago material that she should do great at Temple and by getting to know the people at her local med-schools will be that much more knowledgeable in getting into the med school of her choice. Remember, there is far more to life than prestige. If she would be happier living and going to school in Philly, she is also likely to do better in that school than if she is unhappy living in Chicago. What if she gets to U of Chicago and finds that her classmates are pompous asses? Will she be happy with that? Will she be happy with dealing with the arrogance and the cut throats from that sort of Student body? How about dealing with the Chicago winters? Temple is an everyday school for everyday people with a quality undergraduate education and quality med and law schools, etc. Philly is close to New York and close enough to New England so that she can have a great time while also going to school. In the end, where does she want to live for the next four years. Remember that these posters who have gone to the elite schools think that’s the only way to go. But going to an elite school is not going to enhance your daughter’s quality of life is it? And going to Temple is not going to prevent her from getting in to Med School is it? So in the end, it comes down to where she wants to live and what kind of people she wants to associate with. I would take Temple any day over the type of people who look down on any but the elite schools.</p>
<p>And let me edit my post to suggest that most average people don’t care a whit about Prestige. In the medical profession, people care only about how good the doctor is and what kind of bedside manner they have. The only people who really care about prestige are generally those who think they have it, and that is usually the elite college people only.</p>
<p>The quality of the students and the teaching will be quite different at Temple vs. U. Chicago or Midd. It’s not just prestige----it’s everything at a top notch school vs. one that isn’t. Between U. Chicago and Midd I don’t think it’s that obvious. Chicago is great, but she should really examine the core requirements to make sure she’s comfortable with them. And actually “work hard play hard” is applied to schools like Middlebury more than to Chicago. The “playing” usually means partying on the weekends. At Chicago, although it has supposedly changed some, the “playing” sounds like it’s more intellectual— discussing books and plays etc. You’ll see on the U. Chicago boards that the whole “where fun goes to die” thing is misleading and outdated, but there are different types of fun and she should examine which she wants. Also, go to admitted student days. It can help with the nervousness.</p>
<p>This student does not belong at Temple. No way. Eliminate that right now.</p>
<p>You say she was waitlisted at Penn…I assume she would have gone there had she gotten in? UChicago seems to be by far the closest of her choices to Penn in spirit…urban, with quirky smart kids. </p>
<p>Temple has become popular at our South Jersey hs in recent years. But for more “average” kids. For this person I agree completely with MomofWC…there will be very few like her at Temple. I think it would be a mistake. If she’s good enough to get into UChicago (and Middlebury) I think Temple could be a big bore for her.</p>
<p>I simply do not understand how there could be any possible benefit of this student moving to the Midwest when she is far more comfortable in the Philadelphia area. She is going to an undergraduate school, not a graduate or medical school. If she wants to go to the best for medical school, then she should strive for Penn, but going to Temple undergraduate will be far better for her, not only because she will be at home and more comfortable, which likely will result in better school performance, but because she will avoid the type of people who look down on schools like temple without knowing anything about the types of students who go there. When you read something like his: “The quality of the students and the teaching will be quite different at Temple vs. U. Chicago or Midd. It’s not just prestige----it’s everything at a top notch school vs. one that isn’t.” you have to ask yourself how this poster could possibly know anything about the teaching of Premed at Temple, and the quality of its Premed students. This poster and others are making inferences upon inferences, all without any facts to back them up. I can tell you that they have some very sharp and good people at Temple. Don’t buy into this arrogance and blindness of the “prestige sect”. This young lady can make a wonderful life for herself, but she needs to avoid the garbage floating about on this site about how only the top schools are worth it.</p>
<p>You know, i was wondering why some of the people on this site are so big on the supposedly top schools and that they readily admit that people look at them differently when they say they went to a “prestigious” school as opposed to a non prestigious school. Perhaps the problem is that this was the greatest accomplishment in this person’s life, and that after entering the real world, they are just like everybody else and thus have to hang on to their “prestigious” pedigree to distinguish themselves from their peers. But the thing is, if a person goes on to a successful career in law or medicine, they don’t need to fall back on their college years to feed their egos. They can be satisfied with their successful professional careers, and of course what a person does with their education and accomplishes is a heck of a lot more important, in the end, than where they got that education to begin with. </p>
<p>Just talking to a person today who was telling me how her daughter got a free ride to Dartmouth years ago. When I asked what she does now, she is a “housewife” and perfectly happy raising her children. I suppose that her history degree at Dartmouth wasn’t worth a whole lot since she never went for education beyond her UG years. On the other hand, I also suppose she is very happy and satisfied with her role in life or she wouldn’t be doing it.</p>
<p>If she’s locked into languages at Midd, she should go to Chicago. It’s a truly great school that will enrich her life.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>See if the following facts are at all helpful in comparing the quality of the 3 schools. If not, maybe someone can share data I’ve overlooked that paints a different picture.</p>
<p>Average Class Size
Chicago: … 75.1% < 20, 20% 20-49, 4.9% >=50
Middlebury: 68.2% < 20, 30.5% 20-49, 1.4% >=50
Temple: … 37.4% < 20, 57.5% 20-49, 5.1% >=50
(source: USNWR) </p>
<p>4 year graduation rate
Chicago: … 86%
Middlebury: 86%
Temple: … 36%
(source: USNWR) </p>
<p>Average SATs
Chicago: … 738CR / 738M / 732W
Middlebury: 690CR / 689M / 700W
Temple: … 551 CR / 564M / 549W
(source: USNWR) </p>
<p>Average FT Faculty Salaries
Chicago: … $140,850
Middlebury: $95,073
Temple: … $94,259
(source: stateuniversity.com)</p>
<p>Endowment per Student
Chicago: … $426,000 ([Reach</a> High Scholars - College Endowments](<a href=“http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html]Reach”>College Endowments))
Middlebury: $351,000 ([Reach</a> High Scholars - College Endowments](<a href=“http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html]Reach”>College Endowments))
Temple: … $8,000 ( [Economic</a> decline creates sobering budget future for Temple | Temple University News](<a href=“http://news.temple.edu/economic-decline-creates-sobering-budget-future-temple]Economic”>Economic decline creates sobering budget future for Temple))</p>
<p>Bachelors to PhD Rank
Chicago: … 7th (national universities)
Middlebury: 28th (LACs
Temple: … 232nd (national universities)
(source: Washington Monthly)</p>
<p>Students whose need was fully met
Chicago: … 100%
Middlebury: 99.8%
Temple: … 24.3%
(source: USNWR)</p>
<p>Library system
Chicago: … 8.5 million volumes (<a href=“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago[/url]”>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago</a>)
Middlebury: > 1 million holdings ([Libraries</a> & Collections | Middlebury](<a href=“Collections | Middlebury Libraries”>Collections | Middlebury Libraries))
Temple: … 245,000 volumes ([Temple</a> University Libraries – Temple University [lib-web-cats 2307]](<a href=“libraries.org: an International Directory of Libraries”>Temple University Libraries -- Temple University))
(source: USNWR)</p>
<p>Numbers aside, I think the student should think about the value of spreading her wings in a new environment for 4 years, one she’ll share with students from all over the country (compared to commuting from home for 4 years to a school that draws most students from the local area.) Some people are not willing to make that leap.</p>
<p>^^ Well, for our son, we all agreed he would most likely work to his highest potential, and would be happiest overall, if he were surrounded in college by kids like him. He always, since the first grade, performed best in classes with other smart kids. They pushed each other and more importantly understood each other. During the college hunt, prestige was secondary…getting the best education he could while being surrounded by kids like him was paramount.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with seeking out the opportunity to be in class with, and to live and eat and party with, people like you. Believe me son’s four years at a highly ranked CS school were NOT the highlight of his life…it hasn’t been downhill since then, quite the opposite. Temple no doubt has the computer science major… I speak only for my son, but I wager there are a lot like him (especially on this site!). CS at Temple might have been a fine experience but my hunch is it would have been an entirely different animal than the program he experienced at CMU. And I doubt he’d be where he is today seven years out of school had he gone to Temple. Sure, this person could do fine at Temple. And I’m sure there are some fine instructors there. But my point earlier…she (in the OP)has whatever it takes to get into UChicago…prestige aside, there are many top students who would jump on the opportunity to be surrounded by an entire community of bright people like herself.</p>
<p>If there is no real difference in the cost of going to any of these 3 colleges, AND she wants the flexibility of not having to major in linguistics, then she should choose Chicago. Chicago’s language program is one of the strongest in the nation, and she WILL have more of a chance to do research at Chicago than at Temple or Middlebury , which could be very critical to med school admission.
I’d say Chicago is a no-brainer.
She may be a little anxious about going away to college right now- the reality that she WILL be leaving has probably just hit her[ and that anxiety is perfectly normal right now] , but by Sept she will be ready to go!</p>
<p>Seriously. You can’t do much better than Middlebury when it comes to language instruction. Chicago is great if you’re a grad student, but for undergrad, go with Midd.</p>
<p>Chicago is just another huge school. Nothing special. Go small or go temple. Those well paid professors have no interest in teaching undergrads. They are too busy producing worthless research papers five people in the world will read.</p>
<p>Let me rephrase that, it is just another huge name school. Go Temple or if that is too large, find a small school, say Franklin and Marshall, get a great education and go on to Medical School. Avoid these huge name schools at all costs imho, especially if you need to move out of your State to attend.</p>
<p>I think some of the advice being offered here is verging on trollery. Yes, it’s true that prestige counts less than MCATs and gpa when it comes to med school admissions - but, you have to graduate first - and, that’s where the real advantage of going to a top school comes in. With everything we have learned recently about the obstacles facing even gifted low-income students, it would seem the height of folly to forego two colleges where the graduation rate is 90% for a commuter school where the graduation rate is in the high 30s:</p>
<p><a href=“Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor - The New York Times”>Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor - The New York Times;
<p>You’ve done the work, you’ve received the fat envelope not just once - but, twice. You’ve been been awarded an aid package most middle-class families would kill for. That isn’t just looking the gift-horse in the mouth, it’s performing a complete Heimlich maneuver on it! </p>
<p>Yes, I totally get that she may not want to leave home yet. That’s where the role of parent comes in; only you know your DD. My experience is that what a seventeen year-old says now isn’t necessarily how she will feel a year from now.</p>