Middlebury College vs. the University of Chicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z Middlebury College
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<p>I was recently admitted to both of these schools and have to make a decision by May 1, obviously. Posting in both Midd/UChicago forums because I know it'll be biased on each side, but hopefully, someone can also post in depth about the respective school. </p>

<p>I know I should take the internet with a grain of salt, but since I can't visit either school through April, I'm trying to get a general feel of each school.</p>

<p>I would be studying economics and intend to go into investment banking or management consulting. I'm fairly positive I could fit into both schools, so I don't foresee that as a problem. I have to pay $9k more at Middlebury, so I'm hoping that FA office will attempt to match it, or at least something close to it. If not - well, then the decision is very simple.</p>

<p>I'm mainly concerned about job opportunities out of the schools. Can someone please shed light on investment banking/management consulting?</p>

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<p>During my interview at Middlebury, my interviewer mentioned something along the lines that Middlebury sends as many people to Wall Street as Harvard does.</p>

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<p>^ lol seriously?</p>

<p>I know before Lehman Collapsed there was a major Middlebury-Lehman link and they sent most of their students to Lehman. But I doubt any school on earth can match harvard in IB. The next best schools will be Penn, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth with middlebury not even remotely close.</p>

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<p>you probably won’t have problems caused by whichever school you decide on, and if you do have problems finding a job it’ll be your own fault. (I don’t mean this condescendingly, I just don’t know how else to put it)</p>

<p>Neither college can make or break your future. </p>

<p>I heard that a lot of companies are actually looking for and prefer graduates from liberal arts degrees, especially if it’s anything that involves leadership or the humanities. Since both of your interests fall into those, I think Middlebury is a better choice (:
Obviously I would be biased since I’m a Middkid though.</p>

<p>UChic is probably better if you’re planning on working in a smaller less cosmopolitan company, or an international type association because UChic is more well known. However, if you choose a bigger company with people who know their colleges, they might be more impressed with Midd, seeing as it’s known to be more selective and difficult in terms of grading.</p>

<p>You can’t really go wrong with either. I lean towards Midd because the whole Midd experience is better (imho) and we don’t have articles titled “think you got it bad? University of Chicago’s got it worse” on one of the top google searches with the college name. Just sayin’</p>

<p>Congratulations on getting into two amazing colleges! (psst come to Midd!)</p>

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<p>Look, I love Middlebury. It’s truly one of the. Est schools in the nation, but if you want to go to school for economics and one of your choices is UC, well, it’s like saying you want to go to school for languages or enviro or international studies and one of your choices is Middlebury. UC has long been considered THE school for Econ. Having said that, I just recently saw an episode of Nova on PBS that discussed the fact that the traditional economists at UC may be to blame for the recession we’re in right now. The lack of behavioral economists there could be a problem in the near future. People do seem to be stearing away from traditional economics. There are plenty of posts on CC about the strength of Midd’s Econ department.</p>

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<p>Middlover:</p>

<p>You stay true to your moniker and provide some good advice, but a few points:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Middlebury is less selective than UChicago, but the schools are comparable. For the Class of 2015, UChicago had about 16% accept rate, and Middlebury had about a 20% accept rate. Incoming stats were similar, with an edge to UChicago, but the classes are certainly comparable.</p></li>
<li><p>UChicago, just like Middlebury, offers a liberal arts curriculum (and emphasizes liberal arts quite a bit through the core curriculum).</p></li>
<li><p>I’m not sure why “bigger” companies would be more impressed with Middlebury. UChicago’s long been known for having difficult grading (but that’s eased up a bit at UChicago, as they have everywhere), and I don’t know if Midd really has more of a reputation for this. </p></li>
<li><p>For business recruiting, by virtue of UChicago’s size, a wider array of companies come to campus to recruit, which offers more exposure to various industries for any given student. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>Between these schools, though, fit is really key, especially since they are such SUCH different schools. Any research university has a lot of differences from a small new england LAC. UChicago and Middlebury are no different. </p>

<p>Final note - I’m a UChicago alum and loved the school. These are both great schools, but fit is key! I couldn’t for a second imagine myself in a rural area for college, and I wanted a city, which ruled out most of the new england LACs.</p>

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<p>Damn the iPhone and the “auto-correct” function. That’s supposed to say, “It’s truly one of the best schools in the nation”, not, “It’s truly one of the. Est schools in the nation,”.</p>

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<p>Silly iPhone- I never touch them.
I think you should pick based on whether you want to be in Chicago on an urban campus, or Vermont in the great out-doors. Both schools can meet your other goals very well.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with Cue7 in that fit should be, IMO, the deciding factor because if you’re happy, you’re going to perform better academically regardless of the reputation of the school. That being said, I thought I would respond because both of my parents worked at UChicago for years in the 80’s and early 90’s. They were both doing research in the sciences. When it came time for me to start looking at colleges, they let me find my own path and were much the opposite of ‘helicopter parents’ that we hear so much about these days. The only thing they told me was that I was not allowed to go to UChicago. I could apply if I really wanted to (didn’t end up wanting to), but under no circumstances was I to enroll for undergrad (grad school is a different story). My mom, in particular, worked with undergrads, and her impression was that it was an unhealthy learning environment full of competition and few undergrads were happy. Obviously this is just one opinion, but I thought that I would include her experiences because they might be helpful. It’s going to be the right fit for some people, and many people are comfortable with that type of environment, but I think that it is probably one of the biggest differences between UChicago and Midd, and one that should be considered carefully. As rigorous as Midd is academically, I found it to be one of the few colleges where rigorous academics did not also mean competitive between students. That was a great, healthy environment for me and one that I was looking for. So, when making this decision, consider the type of learning environment that you want, not just the reputation of the schools because at this level, it’s really splitting hairs.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is that UChicago is a university with grad students, so does the reputation of the economics department come from its graduate program or from its undergrad program? I have no idea, but where I am for grad school, the grad programs are top notch but you couldn’t pay me to get my undergrad education (or what they call an education) in the same department.</p>

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<p>Can’t let panther’s assertions go unchallenged. I also agree about fit being paramount with schools of this quality, but his parents’ 20 year old perspective, which had some basis of validity at the time (though probably more so in the sciences than other areas), no longer holds. </p>

<p>UChicago remains as rigorous as they come academically, but in an invigorating, not a soul deadening, way. Students are generally collaborative and supportive of each other. They also have fun, lots of it (as do the Middlebury kids). The university has given a great deal of focus, and resources, in recent years to improving the undergraduate experience, with considerable and increasing success. You can easily check up for yourself, both on Chicago and Middlebury. </p>

<p>So do come back to fit and feel, because those differences are pronounced, and that should be what matters most when schools are at this level. If both school/student personalities appeal to you equally, then either go back to the objective measures or flip a coin, as heads you win, tails you win.</p>

<p>Do, however, keep in mind that in terms of reputation, quality of the educational experience, and breadth of resources, the schools aren’t quite the peers that some would have you believe. Leaving aside the obvious and major sui generis differences between a rural LAC and an urban university (and here pay close attention to the specifics of the rural and urban involved as, for rural vs. urban, it doesn’t get much better than the Champlain valley or Chicago) the schools are not quite that close - to take just one data point: 1290-1480 vs. 1400-1560 for incoming mid-range SAT scores (CR+M, per the infamous, and lagging, USNWR data). If you take that ~100 point differential and apply it in the other direction, you compare Middlebury with schools whose students inhabit the 1200-1400 range. Good schools, certainly, but they’re no Middlebury, just as Middlebury is no UChicago. Who do you want for your companions for 4 years and your friends and network after graduation? That said, Middlebury is still good enough that you should come back to “fit and feel” as your most important criterion. Just don’t, when assessing the feel of Chicago, buy into the dated perspective offered by panther.</p>

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<p>We’ll have to agree to disagree about the differences in reputation between Middlebury and University of Chicago. I’ve lived on the East Coast my entire life, and have many friends, family members, and co-workers who attended top schools. In my experience, the University of Chicago just doesn’t command the sort of “wow” factor that you seem to suggest. On the other hand, neither does Middlebury among those who aren’t familiar with LACs. Among people in the know, both are highly regarded schools and (I would argue) differences in perceived quality are miniscule. U Chicago certainly has more cachet when it comes to their excellent graduate programs. </p>

<p>It’s also worth noting that Chicago has twice as many grad students as undergrad students, so one cannot help but wonder where their priorities lie. Middlebury has no grad students during the academic year, so you’ll never be taught by a TA or have to compete with grad students for resources or equipment. </p>

<p>And as for the City of Chicago—it’s a world-class city with amazing cultural, culinary, and recreational attractions. But U Chicago isn’t in the best part of town, and it’s just far enough removed from the Loop to lose that big city feel (which some crave and others dislike). And yes, I’ve visited University of Chicago and walked around Hyde Park and Woodlawn and didn’t care for the neighborhood. Like I said—others may like that gritty urban feel. Middlebury is a rural school and certainly not for everyone. It’s essentially the opposite of University of Chicago, so I find it hard to believe that both institutions appeal equally to the same individual. I’d recommend visiting both again for the accepted students’ weekend. I think the differences are so great that you’ll discover your preference shortly after stepping foot on both campuses. </p>

<p>In terms of SAT averages, Middlebury is SAT optional, but reports the scores for all submitted tests, regardless of whether they were used for admission. Being SAT optional, Midd obviously doesn’t place as much of an emphasis on SAT I scores as Chicago, so it’s not surprising that Chicago’s scores are higher. Their ACT ranges are more in line with each other.</p>

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<p>If we’re going to argue admissions criteria (between these two incredibly academically similar institutions), I’d point out that USN&WR acceptance rate rankings have Midd at 23rd and Chicago at 29th. Since so many of Midd’s applicants are self-selecting, most applicants are at least in the ball-park, as opposed to Chicago, which gets tons of applicants who are just throwing money away by even applying. With that, and the higher acceptance rate, in mind, it would seem that Middlebury is the more selective school. Not to mention that Middlebury, being an LAC, has the luxury of looking at the whole applicant, not just their test scores. Just look at the recent posts of Middlebury applicants. Many students with lower scores were admitted (because they had some other redeeming qualities), while students with stellar scores, but little else were rejected (those students usually end up at Chicago anyway :wink: ). </p>

<p>Both are great schools with entirely different environments, but let’s not try to make distinctions between the two in academic quality or prestige where there are none.</p>

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<p>^^^so true. So pick the environment you like best…</p>

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<p>Arcadia,
I’ll agree to agreeing to disagree, and note in passing that we certainly have areas of agreement as well. In fact, most of us posting believe that both schools are good enough that the OP would not be making a mistake either way and that his/her most important evaluation criterion should be fit, since the schools offer such different undergraduate experiences. </p>

<p>Urbanslaughter,
Just to clear up an apparent misconception on your part, UChicago’s admission process is also holistic, with considerable weight being given to essays and recommendations, this to get a sense of the person behind the statistics because the university is as concerned with “fit” as the applicants should be. </p>

<p>Chicago seeks to admit interesting people, not numbers. So much so that if you peruse UChicago’s RD thread for class of 2016 on CC, you may find yourself scratching your head over many of the adcom’s admission calls. Sure, Chicago accepts a bunch of 2300-2400 types with stratospheric GPAs in all AP/Honors curricula and amazing trophy sets of ECs/accomplishment, but it waitlists or rejects many such as well, in favor of the pedestrian 2200-2300 set and even a fair number of sub-2100 candidates whose on paper soft credentials, while impressive, appear no more so than the highly qualified kids they beat out. </p>

<p>I think you’re on target with your assessment that “both are great schools with entirely different environments,” but that notwithstanding, still feel there are valid “distinctions [to be made] between the two in academic quality or prestige. To quote a recent and relevant comment from Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia (with whom I do not usually agree), “[The] University of Chicago is one of two or three of the most formidable intellectual institutions in the world; a really impressive place.” Not to be mean-spirited about it, but I doubt there are people making that claim about Middlebury, which is fine, because it plays a different, and also valuable, role in the landscape of higher education.</p>

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<p>Ummm, didn’t he teach there for a number of years? The quote would have more impact if it wasn’t so self-serving.</p>

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<p>It seems to me finances are the main issue, and until you ask about matching the package, the decision is simple. It also seems like you may be leaning toward Midd, since you wouldn’t just take UChicago off the bat with a 9k advantage, but maybe I’m reading into it too far. The key is where you will be comfortable and think you will thrive, and I think a visit to each with an overnight will easily tell you which feels more cozy to you.</p>

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<p>You’re tough, Arcadia.</p>

<p>Now you’re questioning either the veracity or the judgment (alright, I question Scalia’s judgment, too, but this time he got it right) of a Justice of the United States Supreme Court. Yes, Scalia taught at Chicago, as did also currently sitting Justice Elena Kagan. Recently retired Justice John Paul Stevens didn’t teach at Chicago, but he did get his AB there in English lit. Guess Scalia should recuse himself from this case. Would it help if I told you Scalia made the statement under oath? </p>

<p>So, let’s give you another impeachable source: Jonathan Cole, former provost and dean of faculties at Columbia University and author of the recent “The Great American University: Its Rise to Preeminence, Its Indispensable National Role, Why it Must be Protected” (2009). Cole asserts that the University of Chicago “embodies the values of academia more than any other American university.” It is “our closest approximation to the idea of a great university.” Not Columbia, where he served as provost for 14 years, not Harvard, not Stanford or Berkeley, but the University of Chicago. Or Cole again: “Where Chicago shines beyond any other institution I know of is in this core value of academic freedom and free inquiry.” </p>

<p>QED?</p>

<p>Listen, you (and other posters) don’t have to defend Middlebury to me. I love the place and hang out there occasionally (we’ve had a weekend place in Vermont for 25 years – what else are you going to do after the wood is split and you don’t feel like reading any more? Go in to Hanover? We do that, too.). Predominantly happy kids getting a fine education with bright prospects for the future. I’ve also spent time at Chicago, having a son there now, and believe I have a feel for the “feel” of the two schools. Beyond the urban/rural divide and the size difference, there’s something palpably different in the way the kids comport themselves, how they interact, what they talk about, and the dynamic and fierceness of classroom discussions, which (at Chicago) spill over to the dining hall, the Saturday night frat party, et al. I think there’s been enough written here on CC and in other places for the OP to extract a balanced view. The good news is that as long as his/her decision is an informed one, whatever it is, it will be the right one.</p>

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<p>How do you know what goes on in Midd’s classrooms and dining halls? I can understand visiting a college campus on occasion and perhaps gleaning something from discussions you overhear on college pathways and in downtown bars, but you’re telling me that you routinely sit in on class discussions and eat in the dining halls? How else would you be able to make this statement?</p>

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<p>I believe that Middlebury offers a more well-rounded and balanced college experience in general. Yes, college is first and foremost about academics, but one’s education extends well beyond the classroom. Middlebury students are smart, but they’re also interested in pick up games of broom ball in front of Mead Chapel and catching a glimpse of the aurora borealis on their way home from the library on a midwinter’s night. They know how to work hard, but they also know how to play. In general, I think they’re more socially polished than your typical U Chicago student. From what I’ve heard and read, Chicago is a great place for grad school, but undergrads can feel lost in the shuffle. The students body is competitive, and the coursework so demanding that students routinely print t-shirts proclaiming U Chicago as the place “where fun goes to die.”</p>

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<p>There’s no reason to dispute arcadia’s view of the quality of life and education at Middlebury. My child attended a similar school (Bowdoin) and his experience attested to this notion of the well balanced, academically challenging, LAC experience. I couldn’t be happier. But I could not disagree more with his assessment of one’s undergraduate experience at U Chicago. A neighbor’s child attended U Chicago during this same period (it was also high on my son’s list) and it became clear that U Chicago provided an intimate, vibrant, rigorous, and social setting for it’s students. This kid was quirky, smart, athletic, social and fearless. The relationships he established with friends and faculty was impressive and certainly helped when applying to grad schools. All of this is to say, like an above poster, that this is a win, win situation for the lucky student who gets to choose between these two schools.</p>

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<p>I’ll admit–I know very few U Chicago grads, so most of my comments are based on hearsay and what I’ve read (mainly on websites like this one). I shouldn’t speak in generalizations or give in to stereotypes. You’re right–there are no wrong choices when deciding between schools of this caliber.</p>