<p>Is prestige really worth something? What does prestige mean? Prestige comes up often in discussions about college, especially the Ivies. I think many of us value prestige more than we admit.</p>
<p>I collected the following list of "meanings" for prestige from many sources: consumer behavior, semiotics, social psychology, sociology, marketing. Some may seem similar to each other.</p>
<p>Some of the following "meanings" are personal, others are interpersonal. Thare are probably other ways to group them. Are they "real", practical advantages? How much are they worth? Have any been left out?</p>
<p>The meaning of prestige.</p>
<p>Signal of status.
Things that are too common are not prestigious, prestige has unique value.
Prestige has aesthetic appeal.
Satisfies emotional needs, hedonic value.
Prestige is based on tangible aspects of quality.
Prestige means technical superiority.
Prestige implies a quality process.
Prestige associates you with a desirable reference group.
Prestige is a means of self-expression.
Prestige allows you to associate with the people you desire
Prestige implies upward mobility.
Prestige will lead to intellectual stimulation.
Prestige secures lifelong social approval, others are impressed.
Prestige implies limited access and exclusivity.
Prestige enables you to emulate other successful people.
Prestige signals achievement.
Prestige provides intrinsic enjoyment and satisfaction.
Prestige reveals to others important things about you.
Prestige creates a desirable stereotype about you
Prestige makes you happy.
Prestige enhances self-esteem.
Prestige creates hope and optimism.
Prestige is a form of personal recognition.
Prestige distinguishes you from others.
Prestige implies that [your education] is not mass-produced.
Prestige is associated with wealth.
Prestige is a gift received from your parents, an expression of love and caring.
Prestige is associated with more beautiful lifestyle.
Prestige is associated with setting high goals.
Prestige suggests that you have been initiated into an exclusive group.
Prestige enhances your reputation among family and friends.
Prestige indicates distinctiveness rather than conformity.
Prestige enhances the reputation and status of your family.
People react differently to prestige, opens doors, enhances relationships.
Prestige is a proxy for quality.
Limited supply creates and maintains high demand, enduring benefit, won't go down in value.
Prestige is a source of reassurance, confidence, validation.
Prestige is exciting.
Prestige garners respect.
Prestige implies tradition and authenticity.
Prestige gives you a competitive edge.</p>
<p>My belief is that, despite some claims to the contrary, prestige has value and meaning. When students select colleges, they should not discount the reputation of the school. First, reputation is based on something real. Second, prestige has value by itself.</p>
<p>There are a lot of expensive private schools which offer the patina, the palimpsest of “social prestige” but which are no better academically than good state schools. To pay a premium for this kind of "prestige’ is rather vapid.</p>
<p>hmmmmm, BalletGirl- is Dartmouth not “prestigious”?</p>
<p>Honestly, I agree with collegehelp…we all want “prestige” although we like to claim we are above all that.</p>
<p>But prestige doesn’t exist in a vacuum, whether it be the quality of the faculty and students, where its graduates go on to work or graduate school, whatever. Thus, there are tangible benefits of a prestigious institution.</p>
<p>^^ What does Dartmouth have to do with anything? </p>
<p>Surely reputation is important and has many tangible aspects to it including academic quality of students; overall depth and breadth of faculty; faculty-to-student ratio; rigor of and resources committed to the academic program; accomplishments of alumni, professionally and academically (in the arts & sciences); alumni participation in government and community service; quality and helpfulness of the alumni network, etc. All of these aspects can be measured. Real prestige is a by-product. </p>
<p>My point is simply this. Some schools are deserving of a strong reputation, others are not. Too many expensive private school are trading on the patina of a strong reputation through effective marketing and the ignorance of consumers. In many instances, a good in-state school provides a much more compelling alternative – same quality education with better economics associated with it. For more on this see this discussion. </p>
<p>“Some schools are deserving of a strong reputation, others are not.”
And in the thread you provided a link to, you seem to feel that large+ private colleges are not worth what smaller colleges like, say Dartmouth, [where you are going and where my son was also accepted], is worth. Your implication that USC [ southern california] does not deserve a good reputation is based on what? USC is large, in great part because it offers many more comprehensive undergraduate programs- such as Business, Engineering, Architecture, Music, Cinema, Communication, etc. in addition to a liberal arts program in the College of Arts and Sciences, that most smaller colleges do. Hence there are many more students there than at your typical LAC. In addition, at many large public universities, class size and availability of classes can be a be deterrant to receiving a “quality” education to many students. Some parents are willing to pay so their children can have smaller classes and the benefit of being taught by someone other than a grad student during their first 2 years.</p>
<p>There are a lot of expensive private schools which offer the patina, the palimpsest of “social prestige” but which are no better academically than good state schools. To pay a premium for this kind of "prestige’ is rather vapid.</p>
<p>I agree with BalletGirl on this. I think there is a population of people with the disposable income to pay $50,000 or more a year for their not especially achieving offspring who would prefer to spend for the private college with a name associated with having served the upper crust than send their kid to a public. I would name school names but wouldn’t want to offend, or get toasted either. The name is more easily dropped at cocktail parties (especially if a parent has spent big dollars for private K-12 education). At the least, one can assume that Jason or Jill is hobnobbing with kids from similarly well-heeled families.
Postscript: I’m not thinking of USC here.</p>
<p>I am not saying that small is better than large. I am saying there is a subset of large private universities that are not particularly distinguished academically where, if a student had a good in-state option, he or she would be better off academically and financially going to the state school. </p>
<p>As example, in California, a resident would be better off at UCLA than at USC. It isn’t that USC isn’t a good enough school, it simply isn’t worth the price premium.</p>
<p>I see what you’re doing in this list, collegehelp.</p>
<p>Based on this set of definitions, the “gems” of the “Colleges That Change Lives” book or the “Hidden Ivies” (note the nameplay in conferring prestige in both examples) could be similarly prestigious to the Ivy League itself. I happen to subscribe to the CTCL mindset than the USNews mindset, so I guess for me, the CTCL schools are more prestigious than the Ivy League.</p>
<p>I guess students should choose recognize when colleges make them feel warm and fuzzy and should not discount their feelings toward that college.</p>
<p>“As example, in California, a resident would be better off at UCLA than at USC. It isn’t that USC isn’t a good enough school, it simply isn’t worth the price premium.”</p>
<p>And that is your opinion, but that doesn’t not make it so for everyone. Are you aware of how much financial aid USC offers students? Most students don’t pay full freight, any more than most students at HYPS do. Are you a Calif resident? Are you aware of the financial difficulties the UC’s are contunually undergoing because of funding shortfalls with the state of Calif ? Not long ago I spoke to 2 recent UCLA graduates, who are now working in Sacramento, in the Govenors education office, and they said they did not think UCLA was worth going to these days, and they would not go there now, because of the spending cutbacks now, and those coming in the future, that are imposed by the state. As I mentioned above, class sizes at UCLA, and, at times, the lack of availibility of classes required for advancement, can make what should be a 4 year experience into a 6 year committment.
If I may suggest, you might want to tone down your somewhat condescending attitude that you seem to have about certain colleges. "I continue to be amazed at the interest on CC for good but not outstanding large private universities, some of which are among the most expensive in the country ".
I don’t know what brought this on, since you are lucky enough to be going to what is recognized as a top college, I suggest you lighten up on the pontificating. By the way, we are paying nothing for USC, since our son was awarded a full tuition scholarship, and we are all very pleased with the quality of his education, the great professors there in his field, and the opportunites offered by USC.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything in BalletGirl’s post that suggests any kind of condescension. She stated a reasonable perspective about the cost of tuition vs. the quality of education received and followed it up with an opinion of what she felt was a good example. If you disagree, fine, but there’s no need to go on the offensive. If your son going to USC is going to cause you to be overly sensitive about perceived slights, then maybe you should examine your own attitude towards large public schools in California.</p>
<p>I was referring to her statement in the thread she provided a link to .
Statements such as this, : “Why this seeming flight to expensive private schools, when good in-state schools are as good (sometimes better) academically and always, always a better deal financially?”
And posts such as this, also made today by Balletgirl-</p>
<p>"Expensive and overrated (the worst kind):</p>
<p>George Washington University
New York University
University of Southern California
Boston University
Boston College
Notre Dame
Tulane</p>
<p>In fact she does not have a basis for stating “always, always”. USC, which is the school she choose to refer to, provides financial aid to 60% of it’s incoming freshman, as a quick look at the freshman profile would show. This is comparable to many highly ranked universities, and reduces the cost of attendance for many to what attendance at UCLA costs. It is also more financial aid to a higher % of students than the college she will be attending provides. I don’t think sweeping generalizations about large U’s, such as Balletgirl has made, without the facts to back them up, serve any purpose.</p>
<p>You took my post completely out of context. This is the entirety of my post from another thread. </p>
<p>Expensive and overrated (the worst kind):</p>
<p>George Washington University
New York University
University of Southern California
Boston University
Boston College
Notre Dame
Tulane</p>
<p>Inexpensive (for in-state students) and underrated:</p>
<p>William & Mary
Miami of Ohio
University of North Carolina
The College of New Jersey
Evergreen State (Washington)
University of California, San Diego
University of Texas Plan II Honors
St. Mary’s of Maryland
Truman State (Missouri)
Penn State (Honors)
Morris College (Minnesota)
New College (Florida)
CUNY (Honors)</p>
<p>Underrated</p>
<p>Tufts (and, unfortunately, a fate that shall ever remain so)
Rochester
Rice
Cooper Union
All LACs ranked 20-65 in the US News & World Report</p>
<p>It is completely consistently with my arguments on this and other threads. Some schools are deserving of a strong reputation, others are not. Too many expensive private school are trading on the patina of a strong reputation through highly effective marketing and a lack of knowledge on behalf of consumers. In many instances, a good in-state school provides a much more compelling alternative – same quality education with better economics associated with it. </p>
<p>That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it. </p>
<p>BTW, I am sensing you are sensitive about USC. What’s the big deal?</p>
<p>Obviously, the reason I mentioned Dartmouth is that you have chosen to go there…apparently, as you would have us believe, despite it’s “prestige.” I would say that undermines your entire position (do as I say, not as I do???)</p>
<p>“It is completely consistently with my arguments on this and other threads”
You’re entitled to your opinions, but just because you have posted it numerous times doesn’t make it so. Do some research about the actual cost of attendance [after financial aid] at some of the schools you are quick to dismiss as expensive.</p>
<p>menloparkmom- My D has many friends at USC who LOVE it. In fact, her best friend starts in January…and really wants my D to apply. Not sure what she’ll do, as she’s already received early acceptance to her first choice…she is just finishing her senior year.</p>