does school choice matter?

<p>When it comes to what college you've graduated from, does it really matter when you're about to go out in the workforce? Will you get paid more and get a job easier if you went to a better school?</p>

<p><a href="http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2000/2000043.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2000/2000043.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://papers.nber.org/papers/w7322.v5.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://papers.nber.org/papers/w7322.v5.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://chronicle.com/free/v46/i19/19a05201.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://chronicle.com/free/v46/i19/19a05201.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200410/easterbrook%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200410/easterbrook&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>that's alot of reading..</p>

<p>No, people just sweat it because it doesn't matter at all. Just go anywhere and Wall St. will chase you!</p>

<p>suze's sarcasm is h-i-l-a-r-i-o-u-s!!! do u have ur paid writing staff??? ROFL pounding the ground-- why would ppl sweat something if it were meaningl--- hahhahhHAHAHAHAHH- the idea.. Beloved Wall St. comin n knockin on ur door.. !! aaAHHAA this is the best joke ive heard since i found out why the chicken crossed the road. Or maybe the best one since i found out who was there knock knockin... Or maybe since i got the answer to 'guess what?'... OMFG Your should have ur own talkshow!!! I bet u got a 2400 on the SAT with brains like that!! Are you writing from Harvard in Cambridge, MA? Ur the coolest thing since dunkaroos!!!</p>

<p>-_-</p>

<p>Yeah the name of your college, while it gives shlts and giggles to relatives, hardly matters compared to what you actually do there. If ur talkin prestigious law schools / firms maybe but for most of the world no one knows nor cares which college u went to</p>

<p>it doesnt matter so much WHERE you go as it does WHAT you do.</p>

<p>suze: The second part of your post confuses me</p>

<p>^^^^^^ lmao</p>

<p>When you're about to graduate it matters a lot. Many top employers recruit from a specific set of colleges. Sure, you <em>could</em> get in from just about anywhere if your resume lands in the right spot on the right day, but then again you <em>could</em> win the lottery; in other words, as a practical matter, it does matter.</p>

<p>However this effect shrinks remarkably over time. A diploma from HYPS is not a guarantee of lifetime employment and high income. Employers are faced with a lack of knowledge when they hire someone, and even though you may feel they've "grilled" you in a set of interviewers the amount they really find out about your work habits, attitude, intelligence, etc. is more limited than you'd suspect. This is why employers tend to prefer name-brand schools; brands tell us something about quality, or at least we hope they do. But after time on the job a well-performing worker is going to get noticed and promoted regardless of where they went to college. And even if they didn't start out at premier U their work will speak for itself. Managers and others will see this, and as they change jobs/companies there will be a network of people out there who know of good workers and want to hire them or will give them great recommendations. This doesn't happen overnite, but over a few years, to be sure, but it does happen.</p>

<p>When you're about to graduate it matters a lot. Many top employers recruit from a specific set of colleges. Sure, you <em>could</em> get in from just about anywhere if your resume lands in the right spot on the right day, but then again you <em>could</em> win the lottery; in other words, as a practical matter, it does matter.</p>

<p>However this effect shrinks remarkably over time. A diploma from HYPS is not a guarantee of lifetime employment and high income. Employers are faced with a lack of knowledge when they hire someone, and even though you may feel they've "grilled" you in a set of interviewers the amount they really find out about your work habits, attitude, intelligence, etc. is more limited than you'd suspect. This is why employers tend to prefer name-brand schools; brands tell us something about quality, or at least we hope they do. But after time on the job a well-performing worker is going to get noticed and promoted regardless of where they went to college. And even if they didn't start out at premier U their work will speak for itself. Managers and others will see this, and as they change jobs/companies there will be a network of people out there who know of good workers and want to hire them or will give them great recommendations. This doesn't happen overnite, but over a few years, to be sure, but it does happen.</p>

<p>oops, sorry for the double-post :o The forum was slow and I pressed submit twice.</p>

<p>Anyway, one other thought I wanted to add. The slackers at the bottom will be found out, no matter the name on the diploma. The future top-performers are going to rise regardless. But what about the people in the middle? Here is where I think the launch from a top-name school really helps. These are people who aren't the stars but are good enough to keep around & eventually promote. They may not be the next CEO or even department head, but they'll do decently in life. If they start from a higher platform they're always ahead, and if they start at a bad job it may take a stroke of luck to pull them out of it (eg. a coworker who is quite good gets a job somewhere else and brings them over when there's an opening).</p>

<p>
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This is why employers tend to prefer name-brand schools; brands tell us something about quality, or at least we hope they do.

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</p>

<p>It's a very narrow-minded approach. I could tell you straight up that the QUALITY of the education matters almost squat between a prestigous university and a lesser known school. You use the same textbooks, professors teach the same or similar material, use the same labs, etc. </p>

<p>If anything, a lot of ppl I work w/ who went to brand name schools have a sense of entitlement attitude. They act like they should get anything they want b/c they went to Harvard, etc. I think this mentality is very prevalent in my experience. OF course, there are ppl who went to brand name schools who are geniunely smart but also have a strong work ethic.</p>

<p>To preface my comments, let me say this… I’m an “old fart”, as old farts like to say of themselves. I’ve been dealing with corporate clients, across a wide swath of industries and of varying size and visibility for decades. I regularly communicate with executives at the C-level and have interviewed candidates for senior-level jobs with compensation in 7 figures (that’s $1 million plus, if you have trouble counting), as well as those who “only” earn $80K – most are seasoned professionals, in a plethora of job functions. I routinely work with clients who range from “stealth mode” to venture-funded pre-IPO companies to multi-national, multi-billion dollar conglomerates. I have my finger on the pulse of the job market every day.</p>

<p>Life, if you are fortunate, will last a long time. In the process, many professional workers will go though an average of 7 career changes before retirement, if indeed that happens. Where you start will likely not be where you end up – this is as true for your chosen major going into college as it will be when you enter the job market. This is one reason why I believe in the value of a liberal arts education in which a student can gain breadth of knowledge, learn how to think critically, develop a strong sense of curiosity, and hone communication abilities. Can you get the benefits of this type of education at more than just your top choice school? You bet! Does that mean that you shouldn’t care where you attend? Nope. </p>

<p>The truth is that 9 out of 10 hopeful applicants to Harvard will be declined admission. Out of this 90%, there will be some brilliant students who will go on to do very well elsewhere, whether that be Cornell or UC Berkeley or Middle Tennessee State. After graduating, many will spread their wings and eventually land in productive jobs that will lead to successful careers. Will the name of the school on their degree make a big difference? Perhaps in the beginning, to open doors. Do hiring authorities hire paper (or names on paper)? Nope. Do they hire people? Yep. The key measurements (and ultimate hiring criteria) for most executives are 2 things: 1) get the job done; and 2) get along with the people you work with. Neither of these two factors emanates from only one college (or even from only a so-called “Top 20” school). </p>

<p>Yes, there is the visibility to be gained from certain of the nation’s highly selective colleges. The value is there, but ironically, there will be many more graduates from these selective schools who will NOT find immediate opportunities to springboard them to success than those who are fortunate to land choice jobs. Those that do land great career-starting opportunities will not do so without having had considerable foresight, diligence in their studies, and working summer internships that bolster their limited resumes. Make no mistake about it, in the beginning, employers will hire you based on how they perceive your potential. Five years after your career has begun, you will be judged according to what you have demonstrated through work experience. Rather than the name of your alma mater, the essential factors to career success will be how you’ve continued to gain skills/knowledge and applied them. </p>

<p>Consider Java programming and Java-based technologies, the basis of so much of what we see on the Internet. Ten years ago, even the best graduates of MIT in Computer Science didn’t know much about Java. Today, the most innovative software companies are working with technologies that didn’t exist even 2 years ago. That’s how fast the world changes. Your success in the world will need to be built, and the education and degree you receive from any school serves only as a building platform and nothing more. </p>

<p>The world is full of examples of those who never even finished college, much less attended one of the HYPSM category of schools. What Bill Gates learned, he learned mostly at Lakeside Prep School, not from his year at Harvard. Ditto with Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle Corp., the developers of the preferred relational data base management system by corporate America. Ellison lasted a couple of years at UIUC and one quarter at University of Chicago. Steven Jobs spent less than a year at Reed College before finding his way in life by founding Apple Computer with Steve Wozniak, he a UC Berkeley dropout (he later returned to Cal eleven years later to get his degree). Interestingly, besides being pioneering visionaries in the Silicon Valley, both Ellison and Jobs were given up for adoption as infants – hardly an auspicious start to life. </p>

<p>Attending a great school is a wonderful opportunity – and I hope all of you students get to realize this. But understand that if you ask most educated adults, they will say that they had a great college experience. They will say that they would not change a thing. They will also likely say that they could have had an equally great college experience at a school other than the one they attended. The luster of a diploma loses its sheen after a while, and before you know it, it only matters in the form of long-lasting friendships. Good luck!</p>

<p>In 10 years, no. Fresh out of undergrad, yes.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for the information =)</p>

<p>
[quote]
If anything, a lot of ppl I work w/ who went to brand name schools have a sense of entitlement attitude.

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</p>

<p>Yeah, but think about what is happening at the no-name schools. The harsh truth is that a lot of students at the no-name schools are simply lazy. I don't mean to kick somebody when he's down, but that's the truth. Go to any no-name school and you will find plenty of students who are far far more interested in partying, drinking, and hanging out than in actually studying. </p>

<p>I know one guy who went to a CalState for a semester. He ended up with 4 F's for that semester. How? He barely went to class. He basically did none of the work. Basically, he didn't do anything at all. He spent that entire semester drinking, dating a multitude of women, watching a lot of TV, riding his motorcycle, going to clubs, and basically doing everything except actually studying.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The harsh truth is that a lot of students at the no-name schools are simply lazy. I don't mean to kick somebody when he's down, but that's the truth. Go to any no-name school and you will find plenty of students who are far far more interested in partying, drinking, and hanging out than in actually studying. </p>

<p>I know one guy who went to a CalState for a semester. He ended up with 4 F's for that semester. How? He barely went to class. He basically did none of the work. Basically, he didn't do anything at all. He spent that entire semester drinking, dating a multitude of women, watching a lot of TV, riding his motorcycle, going to clubs, and basically doing everything except actually studying.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, if the student is lazy, its the students own damn fault. Don't blame the institution.</p>

<p>And besides, those so-called no name schools at least don't have any grade inflation. I bet your life savings that a lot of those lazy students at name schools would probably still get A's and B's thanks to grade inflation. And at least the students at the no name schools know how to have fun. Students who go to prestigious universities have fun by playing Counterstrike on the internet and going to message boards and try to proclaim their superiority to everybody else by bragging about going to Harvard, etc.</p>