Does size matter?

<p>What's the ideal size for a school for your child? Should boarding schools have lower enrollments than public high schools or is it just the class size and student:teacher ratios that matter?</p>

<p>When I was looking at schools, the whole attraction of private school was the smaller community and how that translated into more one-on-one attention and more opportunities to participate in extracurricular activities (not always being beaten out for slots by upperclassmen or superstar athletes). It seems a lot of schools are now super sizing. I understand the temptation to take advantage of economies of scale and the greater income, fancier facilities and more competitive sports teams but do you think it effects the quality of the experience negatively or positively?</p>

<p>I actually think that larger schools unfairly suffer from a bad rep among most applicants. Given a choice between small and large school, few will say, "Give me the biggest ones you can find!" At least until you tell them that those schools are Andover and Exeter. Then they'll be more flexible.</p>

<p>So I'd like to address the advantages to larger schools. I'm not convinced that applicants are influenced by the things you've cited (economies of scale, revenue, fancier facilities and more competitive sports teams). Well, I'll grant you the facilities part -- but that's not as closely tied to the size of the school. There are plenty of smaller schools with more modern facilities. (Ex.: Exeter has a great music building, but in terms of performance venues the facility options are lousy.) And sports teams are competitive within their leagues...so a small team can be competitive. But who cares about that outside of the people who are actually considering playing on the varsity team in a specific sport?</p>

<p>The more compelling reasons, I believe, to seriously consider larger schools boil down to BREADTH and DEPTH.</p>

<p>Larger schools deliver more opportunities. They are larger communities, but there are still going to be niches within them that are a manageable size for students to connect with. Andover boasts that it has some rather small, close-knit residential buildings, for example, so not everything you do at a large school is going to be daunting and super-sized. In fact, the school's size allows the school to create academic and extra-curricular experiences across a larger horizontal plane. Instead of one vertically enormous percussion group, you are more likely to find a horizontal depth of offerings, including an African drumming group, a jazz rhythm group, rock and roll bands, etc. It's not that there are "economies of scale" as much as there is a breadth of opportunities to connect to. Whether it's better odds of meeting up with that handful of people you become lifelong buddies with or a realistic chance of being able to take the Vergil class because there will be enough students also prepared and interested in it, larger schools deliver unparalleled breadth of opportunities.</p>

<p>And, for the mainstream activities they offer depth. This actually is a double-edged sword when it comes to competitive sports. Your chances of making that competitive varsity team get slimmer at a larger school. Especially if they accept PGs. But in other arenas, where space is not so scarce, the depth of the talent pool can be an amazing benefit. The fan (or school spirit) experience is very palpable at a larger school. For both my son and me, the single most incredible experience we had with visits was when my son sat in on a choir rehearsal at a large school. The size of the choir was mesmerizing. And then they stuck a student orchestra in front that really blew my mind away in terms of talent and size. And the uplifting music that they created together in that rehearsal room was a collaborative effort that a small school would be hard-pressed to replicate. When you consider the depth of the talent pool around you and the possibilities for collaboration, larger schools can become quite seductive.</p>

<p>That said, my S is at the smallest of all the schools he considered and I'm so glad that that was the direction he chose. For him. There's no universally correct answer to your question, because some students are social creatures that will love a large student body. Some students are wallflowers that they might need a large student body around them to bring them out of their shells. Then again, the social butterfly students might thrive in a smaller community that doesn't overwhelm them and dampen that natural spark that impels them to stand out. And those timid students might find it easier to connect with a community where everyone in the school -- not just in each grade -- gets to know everyone else by name and there's no chance of disappearing or getting lost or forgotten. I don't even think that there's a single right answer to this question for a specific student. In the end, it comes down to how all the various factors converge and dance together that will determine the best "fit" for a student.</p>

<p>Size does matter, but I don't think you can plot "student population" on the x-axis and "better fit" on the y-axis and plot out any sort of line or curve. It's but one factor that makes up a total package that an applicant needs to understand -- in terms of how those factors interact at a particular school and in terms of how that specific student will tend to engage that school (or disengage if it's not a good fit, taken as a whole).</p>

<p>Great Topic!</p>

<p>Having a D at a school that is about 330 kids (on the smaller end of the size scale), I don't know what "large" prep school (500 - 750?) is like. I know she came from a large public middle (1800 in grades 6-8) where they kept kids in "pods" of 120 - 125 kids sharing 4 teachers in classroom groupings that shared a commons (lockers) area. It reduced the feel of the school to some degree in that you were with the same kids all day. Pullouts/Arts/Music etc. were done on a schoolwide or gradewide basis to get efficiencies of scale and allow a bit more breadth. It worked well for what it was and the fact that middle school classwork is a standard set of classes (tracked by general level within a pod).</p>

<p>Getting back to my D's small prep school, I can see the positives D'yer pointed out about varsity athletic opportunities due to lack of competition. Of course, the flip side to that is a varsity team with a significant number of JV players tends to be non-competitive and in some ways hurts the school's ability to draw top players. And don't discount that the larger preps can offer a greater breadth of varsity sports - things like fencing or a swim team (bigger schools more likely to be able to afford a pool) are typically only found at the bigger preps.</p>

<p>I'm curious about the bigger schools "personal" feel. I know at my D's school everyone knows everyone - including the staff. It was interesting to see my D go out of her way to greet the groundskeeper (also zamboni driver) in the middle of the football field where he was chalking lines when we arrived back at school in September. It seems that the personal relationships with all of the employees and student at the school is very close at her school. I don't know how much that scales up at bigger preps. Anyone here have any experience?</p>

<p>Perhaps this is just piling on to a point that has already been made, but for our D it was all about "fit". We visited 6 schools ranging from 350 on the small end to 850 on the high end. She ended up at the school with 350 because that was in her opinion, and my wife and I also, the right spot for her. The difference in size was absolutely one of the factors in her mind in what was "right". In fact she didn't even apply to the school with 850 after the interview visit because it didn't seem like the right place for her.</p>

<p>I do agree that the bigger schools perhaps had more opportunities and grander facilities, but as long as you do your homework on what schools you are looking at I think a lot of those things turn out to be differences that don't really make a difference to your kid. Does my D's school have a huge awe inspiring music performance hall? No, but on a small scale those facilities are all modern and top quality and actually she doesn't plan on continuing her cello playing at BS. Does my D's school have a swimming program? No, but swimming isn't her sport. Does my D's school offer 8 languages? No, but it has a strong program in the language she has been working on and is interested in mastering. On the other hand, does my D's school have a great sports program in her sport, does it have modern top-quality facilities on a smaller scale and does it have strong curriculum in some of the areas she gets excited about? Absolutely. I suppose there is an argument to be made that my D might discover some new passion that we don't know about now if presented with broader range of opportunities at a big school and I can't say that's impossible, but the list of potential new things for her to experience even at a small school is a pretty good list.</p>

<p>One thing that I have worried a little about over the last couple weeks as she has adjusted is whether the pool of kids is so small that if she weren't being successful in making friends, fitting in and feeling comfortable that she could be in for a long akward year. Her entering 9th grade class was only 60, so if those are roughly 50/50 boys and girls and 20% of the kids are day students then the universe of 9th grade boarding girls is not that big. Fortunately, that hasn't seemed to be a problem for her as she seems to be settling in real well.</p>

<p>My kids are currently at a Jr. Prep that is small - 250 kids K-9. At the first all school meeting of the year they pick one 9th grader and one K-3 student (to help with lower school teachers) to come up and "introduce" all the teachers to the school. My son did it this year (he's been there since 5th grade). He needed help from the 3rd grader for the new lower school teachers, but he knew not only the teachers names and what they taught but he knew what else they did - like which sport they coached, that they were a dept chair, what they "did" on campus, things like that. That's kind of the "Cheers" effect (you know, where everybody knows your name...) of the small school.<br>
Some kids leave this school having had enough of it and want the larger school, where you have those relationships with those in your dorm, or on your team, and in your classes; but not with the entire school. Some kids (like my son) want that to continue. </p>

<p>Not having any big school experience personally, our placement counselor and S's head of upper school said that they feel our son needs the small school community. That it is different and more personal with less chances of getting "lost." </p>

<p>I had started a post this morning but had to run that was similar to Dyer about facilities and breadth of offerings. I don't think facilities are necessarily nicer at bigger schools - it depends on how good thier development offices are - LOL.</p>

<p>In larger schools, there are more people to interact with and that definitely helps because there are so many personalities and people to try out, but then at smaller schools you're also closer to more people. </p>

<p>However, at bigger schools (700+), you also get more clubs, activities, etc. to do. Also, I think that bigger schools give more independence just because you're on your own and it's harder to look after those kids all the time (I'm not saying that's a safety issue, though). So I think if you don't think you could acclimate to BS environment that well, a small school might be better.</p>

<p>
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Also, I think that bigger schools give more independence just because you're on your own and it's harder to look after those kids all the time

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Except the faculty/student ratios are still the same, so they have more people looking after them...right? I think of independence as more of a structure thing than a matter of size. </p>

<p>Also one thing I was thinking of in regards to sports. A larger school may be more competitve to get a starting varsity position or a lot of Varsity playing time. However, they may also have, for example, 4 football teams. So while you might not make Varsity, you might get a ton of playing time on the 3rds team. A smaller school may only have a Varsity and JV team...not as many opportunities to play, but not as competitve either in terms of making the team.</p>

<p>As others have said it greatly depends on the student. I'm attending one of the largest boarding schools. At Andover we have 1100 students. However, there are so many small groups (clusters, dorms, teams, classes, etc.) that we get the feel of a small community and a large community in one. Just because we have a large school doesn't mean our teachers and staff don't get to know us. Most faculty only teach 3 classes. When they only teach 45 students, there are great opportunities for personal interaction. They'll ask about sports teams, weekends, etc. before class starts or in the halls. Several teachers are known for getting mad if you don't say hi to them on the paths.<br>
We also get to know the staff. We talk to the janitors who help clean our dorms. We talk to the receptionists in the admin buildings. Not everyone is close to them, but most kids make a point of saying hello. One of the most popular figures on campus is Zulema who makes sandwiches in our dining hall. They tried to make the delis self-service, and many students were upset that she would no longer be there. She has since returned and everyone is happy.</p>

<p>If you're coming from a public school environment, I think a boarding school with 500 kids can feel bigger than you'd think - like a public school with 1,000 - in that at BS there seems to be a lot more interaction across grade levels then you would typically encounter at public school. It's that 24/7 living and dorm life.</p>

<p>I know of no prep schools with a varsity fencing team. However, Andover offers fencing P.E. as a sport and there are opportunies, through the club, to fence in USFA tournaments. We have some excellent coaches here, including an epee coach from Harvard who comes down here some afternoons, and some high-ranked fencers as well. If we actually had people to compete against, we totally could have a varisty fencing team. :)</p>

<p>as far as size goes, i definitely prefer smaller. also, i think my school, hotchkiss (100+ students per grade), is the perfect size. we have great facilities- music building, athletic center, and competitive sports. i personally love to socialize and make friends, but the idea of a large school like andover makes me uncomfortable. it might also be that i like to stand out. i think that at hotchkiss you get closeness with the people in your grade that you wouldn't have at a larger school. two weeks into the year and i already recoignize everyone in my grade by name. we have lots of clubs too. so basiclly my school has all the features of a large one with the eviorement of a small, close-knit school.</p>

<p>I don't know that size is the issue in terms of care for student. When my daughter was at her BS, the school had 1200 students on two campuses, and she was given extraordinary care and opportunities. my older son was at a school with 1000, and now my younger son is at a school with approximately 350.</p>

<p>As I search for BS for D3, I see that many schs have increasd their enrollment over the past 3-4 years. While the increases are generally b/w 5 and 10%, much of the increase (at least w/ the schs we're considering) has been in day students. In some cases, this has resulted in a signif change in the day:boarder ratio, which I consider to be important.</p>

<p>For example, last year the Miss Hall's web site describes the school as 180 students, 75% of whom are boarders. The current enrollment, however, is 193 - - 1/3 of day students and 2/3 boarders. </p>

<p>These increases are less likely in more isolated schools, but I suspect that as the % of day students climbs up, a sch's boarding character will diminish.</p>

<p>Aren't there quite a few schools that have decreased the size of their student body in recent years?</p>

<p>Perhaps - - I guess I should have said "a number of the shcs in which D has expressed interest" rather than "many schools."</p>