Does Swarthmore have fraternities?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
21

<p>
[quote]
He was not calling his girlfriend, and he was not even calling a girl. And his computer was full of illegal pictures.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I did not say anything about the student calling a girlfriend or a girl. I have no idea the gender of the two teenagers the student communicated with. I don't know that it makes any difference. I'm not condoning what the student did. </p>

<p>As you can see, the initial investigation and the main charges against the student involved internet chat room conversations with two teenagers and phone conversations with one of the two. The parents of one of the two discovered chat logs and contacted the police in their town, who set up a AIM sting and contacted the student. </p>

<p>I thought that I answered your question about the student's return to college following the completion of the sentence and a year and half of counseling. At that point, the student applied for re-admission to the college and the case went before the College Judiciary Committee for a decision. I suspect that several factors contributed to their decision to readmit the student: full cooperation from the get-go with the investigation, the outcome of the treatment program, the recommendation of the therapist, and dicsussions with the student.</p>

<p>From all indications, the College Judiciary Committee made, what in hindsight was the right decision. In addition to being an honors graduate, the student was a very active after the return to Swarthmore, editing and writing weekly for the paper, one of the principles in founding the Genocide Intervention Fund on Darfur, active in the lawsuit over the Diebold memos, interning for the Atlantic Monthly, active in local church activities, etc.</p>

<p>I understand why the decision would be controversial. But, to be honest, I'm glad that a high school valedictorian who made a serious error in judgement as a teenager and paid a hefty price for it, was able to get straightened out.</p>

<p>I don't understand how the "liberal" or "conservative" tag you used really applies. My understanding is that even the most conservative evangelical Christian theology is OK with atoning for sins and a chance at redemption.</p>

22

<p>You wrote:</p>

<p>"Actually, I think that case was centered around a college student having internet chat room conversations with two minors (16 and 17) and subsequent phone sex with the 17 year old . . .
Everything I've read in the Swarthmore paper from the time of the arrest going forward was that this was a 19 year old kid who had messed up, paid the penalty, gotten the appropriate counseling, and wasn't a threat to anyone. There had never been any allegations of physical contact with minors, nor was it a case of a "child pornography ring" or distribution enterprise ...
If anything, the prosecutor might have been a little overzealous in refusing a plea bargain. The courts would be pretty full if we threw the book at every 18 or 19 year old kid having phone sex or trading pictures with a 17 year old girlfriend."</p>

<p>You weren't implying that his actions weren't as serious as they were?</p>

<p>from The Phoenix:</p>

<p>[The student] "was arrested on April 29 after he had a sexual conversation over the Internet with a police detective posing as a 15-year-old male. Investigators found pornographic images depicting both prepubescent and postpubescent children on his computer."</p>

<p>By liberal, i meant permissive. I'm not religious, sure forgiveness is okay, but the kid is more than "just a kid who messed up". I just don't think these things should be downplayed.</p>

23

<p>I think there is a continuum of seriousness. Personally, I would put the student's computer crimes far below the seriousness of pedophile priests. I would put the student's computer crimes below the seriousness of date rape. I would put the student's computer crimes below the seriousness of the ice hockey team at Milton Academy that was serviced in the locker room by a 15 year old female student.</p>

<p>Given the student's age, clean record, and cooperation, if I had been the judge, I probably would have been more inclined for a plea bargain involving probation and a treatment program. In the grand scheme of things, I think the jail sentence was pretty excessive given the facts of the case. For the most part, I think that rehabilitation should be the goal in juvenile cases.</p>

<p>Just for comparison, the seven Milton Academy ice hockey players who were serviced by the 15 year old received sentences of 100 hours of community service and 2-years of probation, following which their records will be wiped clean. </p>

<p>Seems to me that, if phone sex with a 17 year old gets you a felony sex offender conviction with a jail sentence and required registration for the rest of your life, then actual public group sex with a 15 year old probably deserves something a little stiffer than a clean record after two years. </p>

<p>I'm not excusing either behavior; just the opposite. I am questioning the sentencing consistency. Harvard Law Professor, Alan Dershowitz (whose daughter attends Milton) was quoted in the Boston Globe that the Milton case never should have been prosectued at all. He called it "the most senseless use of prosecutorial discretion I've seen in a long time." I disagree with Dershowitz (as I usually do, but I wonder how he'd feel about the Swarthmore case where there wasn't even physical contact or sex involved? While I think the Milton boys should have been punished, there was at least enough prosectorial discretion to not throw them in jail.</p>

<p>You seem to be suggesting that the seven Milton Academy ice hockey players should not be given a shot by any colleges. I don't agree with that. I think that, generally speaking, teenagers deserve a second chance.</p>

24

<p>The way I interpret it, the colleges approach to disciplinary issues is rooted in the concept that students should take responsibility for themselves. The college basically treats students as adults; RAs are not viewed in the least as authoritarian figures, and have no role in “policing” their halls or searching rooms. If students choose to break laws and drink underage or use drugs then that is there choice. The college usually only restricts an individuals “freedom” if they prove that they cannot handle the responsibility, whether it manifest itself through falling behind in school or by becoming dangerously drunk. The college also puts through counseling and usually probation those who do get in trouble with the law. If a student has serious problems then they are usually asked to take some time off. There was a heated debate last year amongst the student body concerning Ivan Boothe, and the larger question of whether or not the college exhibited trends of ignoring serious concerns or complaints that had been placed by students. Ivan Boothe was on campus last year, and I personally did not have a major problem with that. Part of that is my faith in the legal system, and part is the fact that I felt the nature of his crime meant that neither I nor other students on the campus were at immediate risk. I did feel however that the college should have been more open with the student body. Ivan Boothe is a registered sex offender, and can be found on the Miranda’s law website, I think the school should have at least sent out official notice to this effect to the student body. I also had not read the editorial linked above, and that changes my views somewhat as to whether or not he was dangerous to members of the student body. I don’t feel like I am betraying the college by posting this, in fact I feel I would be if I was less than honest. The bottom line is, at Swarthmore students have a lot of personal freedom and responsibility. I personally am very, very appreciative of the freedom I have here, even if I am a little disturbed of some murmurings I have heard regarding the colleges treatment of student complaints, though I don’t know any real details or the facts of any of the cases, and I think this is probably a reality at every school. Ultimately, I feel safe here, but since this issue has been dragged up in the forums I want you to hear what Swat is like, at least in my opinions, rather then arrive at Swarthmore and find something radically different from what you accepted. If you have any further questions, or are in anyway confused about what I’ve written please say so. If issues like this are a serious concern to you then I highly recommend you do some serious in-depth investigation of all the schools that you apply to.</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
RAs are not viewed in the least as authoritarian figures, and have no role in “policing” their halls or searching rooms.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is true in one sense. But, in another sense, the RAs take responsibilty in identifying problems and communicating to the Dean's Office. I suppose this might be best described as a Neighborhood Watch program. I suspect that many "at risk" students have gotten help as a result of RAs seeking out a proper resource on campus. I suspect that more of this goes on than most people know about. </p>

<p>I do think that you make an important point. If students or parents are expecting a college that imposes a million rules and regulations or attempts to serve as surrogate parents, Swarthmore is not the right college. Throughout much of its history, it was a very "strict" college, but that changed right around 1960, largely in response to pressure from the students.</p>

<p>It seems clear from hearing Dean Gross speak to parents that he views college as a much larger experience than the classroom -- that college is really about the transtion to adulthood. And, that part of that learning process include making some mistakes and learning how to work things out. I think that the policy of treating college students like adults serves Swarthmore students well. By and large, they seem to handle the responsibility pretty well. But, that approach probably isn't right for everyone.</p>

26

<p>Swatstudent09, thank you for your honest answer. As to the last sentence of your post - I am, and that was what I was doing when I asked about something I had heard as gossip.</p>

<p>Instead of real facts, I got a public relations version of what really happened. Looking into schools on this forum is useless if that’s the kind of answers
to questions people are gonna get.</p>

<p>Interesteddad, I’m not suggesting anything about any situation at Milton Academy or any other school. I asked a question, and you gave me a sugarcoated answer that was a little misleading. I know you’re a big fan of the school, but I think people also wanna know the negatives of the place, not just your positives.</p>

27

<p>What sugar-coated? Actually, I overstated the charges against the student. He was never charged with communicating with an actual minor.</p>

<p>He was arrested as part of a five year long sting operation run by the Keene, NH police department. They would pose as 15 year olds starting conversations in chat rooms. Their operation led to arrest of students at Swarthmore, Dartmouth, Syracuse, and a Florida university.</p>

<p>The actual charges the student was convicted of were:</p>

<p>a) Soliciting a policemen posing as a 15 year old to call him for phone sex after an Instant Messanger chat.</p>

<p>b) Sending the policeman posing as a 15 year old six photographs.</p>

<p>c) Having child pornography on his computer.</p>

<p>d) Using his computer to download the phots in c) above.</p>

<p>I don't see how those charges are sugar-coated. I also don't see those charges as being in quite the same category as, for example, rape or actually molesting a minor or inducing a 15 year old to perform oral sex on an ice hockey team. </p>

<p>Jesus, I don't know what you want from the guy? Blood? He had a problem. He did a jail sentence. He has permanent felony conviction and has to register as a sex offender everywhere he lives for the rest of his life. He admitted his mistake, cooperated with the police, pled guilty, did his jail sentence, and spent a year and a half getting treatment. From all accounts, he's straightened himself out and has been a model citizen. What more punishment would you like to see handed out? The electric chair?</p>

<p>I get the message. You think it's unconscionably "liberal", that a commitee comprised of two deans, two faculty members, and two students at Swarthmore reviewed his case in detail and decided to let him get his degree. Fine. That's your opinion. I can tell that giving this kid a second chance really, really bothers you.</p>

<p>Personally, I don't much care one way or another. I wouldn't know the guy from Adam. I figure that the people who made the decision were probably in a better position to judge than you or I ever will be. I know that this may surprise you, but this kid was not the first college student in the history of the US to be readmitted after a big mistake and serious problem with the law.</p>

28

<p>Intersteddad, your post on the RA's is spot on with regards to pretty much everything it covers. I didn't mean to come across as negative as I did in my previous post. RA's provide a very valuable service, and I can think of a number of instances that I know of off the top of my head were RA's have spotted students floundering and done a lot to help them out. In a way I feel that this would not be possible in a school where RA's are viewed as the "enemy" and "spies for the administration". I also feel you captured the spirit behind the schools policies very well. I personally am very thankful for the environment at Swarthmore, but it may not be right for everyone. That said, every school out there has problems with discipline of one sort or another, and I strongly believe that Swarthmore's policies don't really put students at risk, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I know I personally have learned a lot about personal responsibility since I have been here, and not all of it the easy way. That’s also one of advantages of the pass/fail first semester; for it helps students adjust a lot to the social aspects of college, as well as the academic side. If students feel the need to go a little crazy when they get to college, they usually grow out of it pretty fast, and being pass/fail means that they get the opportunity to grow up and learn a little bit on their own, without having to pay for it academically. I’m not saying that being pass/fail is an excuse, or that it encourages reckless or irresponsible behavior, also, classes at Swat are no joke, pass/fail or full credit. However I genuinely believe that if a student is to act that way (and not all students do, by any means) then it is going happen no matter where the student goes to school, and at least at Swat, as long as they act within reason, they have a chance to grow up a little bit and get it out of their systems before they start really paying for poor judgment. If what I've said is any way confusing, or if your worried about it and want further clarification, please say so. Also, remember there are 1,400 other swatstudnet opinions out there, and this is only one of them.</p>

29

<p>I love swatstudnet opinions! student/studnet is the mistake I make typing almost 100% of the time and I'm glad I am not alone . . .</p>

30

<p>Ha, I’ve written so many papers on my PC I’m now almost completely dependent on Spellcheck. And I’m also a little dyslexic.</p>

31

<p>But at least you tell it straight, so you don't have to back-pedal in additional posts. Thank you.</p>

32

<p>Interesteddad, I don't want anything from the guy. I just wanted an honest and accurate answer to my question. I'm not sure what "message" you're getting from me.</p>

<p>I realize you have to try to demonize me in some way to divert attention from your attempt to hide the truth, but please don't put words in my mouth.</p>