This is inefficient. You’re relying on anecdote. Grinnell has more than double Emory’s per student and was the lowest offer my friend’s kid got.
Anecdotes rely on your own personal details.
@lookingforward Are you responding to me? I’m not talking about anecdotes. I quoted data.
Nope, @collegemom9 . Not to worry. Was responding to OP’s request for “individual experiences.” The Emory comparison was just convenient. My anecodote is that Grinnell gave my godson 2/3 of what others did. Not much to be learned from that, except that, “it depends.”
OP, can’t judge this just by who else got what. Someone with highest need may get more than another does. My kids got great aid at a college with an EPS far lower than some (and still highly selective, not combing for enrollees.)
@writingpumpkin03 That’s precisely what I was trying to point out to the OP, but you said it much more concisely! Just comparing the endowments is apples to oranges sometimes.
And yes, I don’t know why WashU is need-aware – it would be interesting to know what’s behind that choice, but either way I think it’s somewhat of a disgrace for such an elite school not to be need-blind.
There are quite a few schools that are arguably at or above the same “elite” level as Washington University that are need aware. It’s a business decision, and for these schools the need aware implications fall in large part at the end of the selected applicants.
^Yeah, the subject has drifted a bit from so-called, ‘generosity’ (admittedly, a vague and subjective term) to ‘need-blind versus need-aware’ which is a different issue entirely. A college can be need-aware and still offer more generous financial aid packages than some need-blind colleges. We see it on College Confidential all the time.
@circuitrider “We see it on College Confidential all the time.”
It takes time to get to 3,000+ posts, and it takes time plus a certain admirable (although almost scary) mind set to get to 30,000 posts, and to know everything discussed here by heart.
I think most users don’t have the stamina (and time?) to reach that stage. Searches do show interesting results but often are incomplete when one looks for something specific, and they often require digging through tons of detritus…
I’ve been here for a short time, and I was hoping that people who know a lot can link/paste/repeat so we would create a handy, unique thread answering, at least partially, the question posed in the subject line, which, I was hoping, would be of a great interest to some users.
Perhaps this is not the right approach - I’m just learning.
We don’t “know everything by heart,” just know what we do know.
I believe @circuitrider was referring to, “A college can be need-aware and still offer more generous financial aid packages than some need-blind colleges.” We DO see that. Not suggesting you read thousands of posts.
Imo, no, endowment size does not directly correlate with generosity of financial aid, except in theory. A high need kid, per that college’s policy and formula, will likely receive more than a kid who needs less, per their formulas. Is that “generous” to the latter? Maybe. But not necessarily.
Harvard allows for a higher income level than others. But whether you get the most from X or Y depends on those policies, not the size of the endowment.
If you’re trying to figure your shot at good aid, run the NPCs, if you aren’t a biz owner and the parents are together. Resources like Financial Aid or Dummies will help.
People here overestimate the importance of a “need blind” admissions claim. Colleges that claim that are really saying that FA need is not a consideration when looking at an individual applicant – but any selective college that gives its own FA almost certainly will be need-aware for the entire class, and can adjust proxies of FA need in their admissions criteria. For example, legacies tend to be less FA needy than non-legacies, even though some legacies may still be FA needy, so adjusting the weight of legacy consideration will affect the FA need of the resulting admissions class.
As I said, it’s very inefficient. I don’t think it will be a satisfying or productive way of getting the info you seek. As everyone has said, run the NPCs for colleges your child is interested in. If you are not a business-owner or divorced, and if you plug in true numbers, they will be very close to accurate. Also, if you provide more detailed info here about your situation, some posters can help you with suggestions for colleges to explore. What’s your income? Assets? Child’s GPA/SAT/ACT?
I’m not sure why Earlham was used as an example of a low endowment school. On a per student basis its endowment places ~30% higher than, for comparison, the quite respectably resourced Wesleyan’s (at least by the figures I accessed). In any case, IPEDS might offer you a preliminary sense for the net cost of various colleges for your financial situation, @ArtsyKidDad (e.g., https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Earlham&s=all&id=150455#netprc).
Actually, @merc81, I’m not sure where you are accessing your figures, (I just browsed Wikipedia and found no support for your “30% higher” claim) but, arguendo assuming you are correct, and just to muddy the waters even further, why not use the equally low-per-student-endowed, Cornell? Which school do you think is actually “richer” in terms of resources, Cornell or Earlham?
That’s the thing, I am a small business owner, myself and my wife run a 2-person professional services company, an S Corporation, so NPC calculators are of limited use, hence my “fishing expedition” in this thread. The income as calculated for IRS would be sufficiently low for quite a bit of FA but of course we know that’s not how colleges calculate it.
The daughter is just a rising junior, so not much testing yet (PSAT-10 was very good), 3.97 UW, 5.1 W GPA in an extremely selective, big city school, with fairly impressive music-related ECs. Two language APs, both (5), as a sophomore, and a good course load for the junior year.
You can run the FAFSA Forecaster for a vague idea of family contribution, per the feds Or the longer Ifap formula. Both came very close to what the colleges felt we should pay.
But it still rests on an individual college. I mentioned Grinnell because, anecdotally, their offer was so much lower than others, yet their endowment is so high.
Also anecdote, D1 got virtually the same FA from each RD school. A bit unheard of. The NPC wasnt available, back then.
There are some CC posters who believe the better your match, the better FA might be, even at a Meet Full Need only college. Might. I had seen those comments just before my first applied. We focused intently on real “match.” Except for merit opps, that’s more than stats. It’s the holistic match with their philosophy, offerings, the nature of empowerment you show, challenges taken on, and successes they look for, in the kid’s record and writing.
That’s harder to figure. But for top performing kids, vital to an admit, in the first place.
If you’re looking for merit, it’s a different question.
This type of thing is sometimes called “preferential packaging”. Another way of thinking about it is that it is like a hidden or unannounced competitive embedded merit scholarship. Note: “holistic match” is just another way of describing merit in relation to the college’s preferences, where the college determines desirability of applicants and admits holistically.
Re #31: College Raptor, “Endowment per Student for 2019.”
BUT (a big but!) @ucbalumnus, as has been repeatedly and exhaustively explained to you on other threads where Earlham was mentioned… the college cost calculator misses significant aspects of Earlham’s aid policies, and should not be considered as a “final” number. In most cases, it is not remotely close to the final number… especially for lower-income families. Many of my lower- and middle-income students attend Earlham at very-low/no cost. And loans for low-income students are capped in Earlham financial packages at a very low ceiling.
Also – Earlham includes money for research, guarantees every student a PAID internship, and includes foreign study as well as many other opportunities that are necessary for students to do, these days, but poor students don’t have access to at most schools.
Why DO you hop on every Earlham thread repeating the same flawed information? You claim that you have no personal knowledge of the school, and that you have no axe to grind, but you keep speaking about the school without having knowledge of it, and keep ignoring the updated information from people who actually know a lot about it.
I am an education professional in Indiana. I mentor students applying to elite colleges. Many of my former students have gone to Earlham. I even currently have a son at Earlham. I know the school well, and you are misleading students with your posts.
I would have been very upset if my students, lacking a mentor, had turned to College Confidential for guidance and got misinformed by someone who was advising them and discouraging them from applying to a school that was a good fit.
This is important and these kids are looking for guidance… you are going to cause someone to give up on good opportunities because you keep giving flawed advice about a school that you have admitted you know nothing about.
Why do you keep doing this? Talk about schools you KNOW about, and let others talk about the ones you don’t know about. That is supposed to be the beauty of a crowd-forum like this. Everyone puts in the piece they know about and together we create a good resource. If we don’t really know a school and we give information that is incomplete, or just plain wrong, because we don’t know, it undermines the goal of this resource. 
That ain’t cool, man! These people are here for help!
@BB why do you feel compelled to attack anyone critical of Earlham?. @ucbalumnus is entitled to their informed review. I would personally consider the likelihood that schools such as Earlham whose endowments have declined significantly based on deficit spending will have to make adjustments to financial aid policies, course offering and other strategic options or risk insolvency like numerous other peer institutions.
I base this on Moody’s commentary after two downgrades and an ultimate withdrawal of their rating of Earlham. The following is directly from Moodys…
Pl
"Moody’s Investors Service has downgraded Earlham College (Earlham) to Baa1 from A1. The outlook is negative. The downgrade to Baa1 reflects deepening operating deficits which are expected to last for an extended period of time as the college invests in repositioning itself to address fundamental student demand challenges.
SUMMARY RATING RATIONALE:
The downgrade to Baa1 from A1 is driven by Earlham’s challenged student demand, with declining net tuition revenue since 2009 leading the college to a position of fundamental financial imbalance. As the college works to implement its strategic plan that invests in its campus facilities, academics and the student experience, expenses will continue to grow. We now expect increasing operating deficits in the medium term, with declining deficits throughout the decade and potentially longer depending on the success of the college’s repositioning efforts. Sustaining the college’s rating at this time are significant expendable financial resources, providing it with an extended period of time to address current challenges. Our rating factors in some decline in financial reserves to fund the plan, but we also note that the college’s rating is increasingly vulnerable to financial market losses since its resources are the primary credit positive. The negative outlook reflects the possibility of further credit deterioration should operating losses or declines in liquidity be even greater than currently expected.
CHALLENGES
*Total net tuition revenue has declined by over 22% since 2009 with tuition discounting rising to nearly 60% as the college faces a challenging market environment.
*As it attempts to distinguish itself over the next several years, educational expenses per student, which are already up by over 20% over the past five years, are likely to climb further.
*With limited revenue growth in the near term, and an outlined strategy relying on investments with plans to implement cost reduction initiatives, Earlham’s operating deficits will be larger than previously expected and are now expected to extend through the end of the decade.
*Earlham’s historic balance sheet strength could erode as it uses supplemental endowment draws to fund its strategic initiatives if investment returns cannot offset the draws.
*The college has a high age of plant at nearly 22 years (Moody’s calculated) although recent capital investments underway (largely funded by Series 2013 bonds) should help campus facilities and recruiting. However, the college reports low deferred maintenance needs for the campus and the calculated age of plant will be lower when the new buildings come online.
*Although the strategic plan is approved and being implemented, it will take time for any measurable results to emerge."
@BB you keep asking why different members are commenting on schools they know nothing about (as opposed to you based on your son being an Earlham student). Moody’s is a professional financial credit rating agency that Earlham paid to provide an independent financial analysis of their credit worthiness on a forward looking basis to facilitate the sale of Earlham backed municipal bonds. BB I hope we can agree with that the damning views of Earlham’s financial situation as outlined in Moodys published report are unbiased and informed and shouldn’t be dismissed as you do those of others?
Well I think its clear that Earlham does sometimes/often offer better aid than the ncp shows. I know people who did better personally (none of my kids applied).
Neither of mine applied, either. (I do know a guy who taught there 30 years ago, lol.)
But the point is, we should all speak of what we do know. that’s what makes an informed forum, an informed collective. Not over-relying on broad data to analyze or patting underqualified kids on the head. And not relying on so much “I think you’ll be fine” or “I think that essay topic sounds great” when they aren’t even mentors, as BB said he is. In my experience with solid mentoring programs or relatonships, it’s generally broad insight and good help.