Does the infamous "Tufts syndrome" really exist?

College Search & Selection
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<p>I've been accepted to NYU and Tulane but I was waitlisted from Northeastern. From what I know, NYU and Tulane are a lot more selective than Northeastern. I know kids with 1200 SAT's (Math+Reading) that got into Northeastern while I had a 1350. I did a ton of ec's (Fencing champion and tae kwon do instructor). A lot of my friends have told me I possibly was a victim of the "tufts syndrome". I don't know if that's true but I'm curious to know the inner workings of college admissions. In theory, if I got into NYU and Tulane I should have gotten into Northeastern. My guidance counselor told me Northeastern was my safety school, as an added thought.</p>

<p>p.s- I'm not trying to be egotistical in anyway. I'm really just curious about this entire ordeal.</p>

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<p>you should be pleased that you got accepted at two universities, that in your opinion, were higher ranked than the one that did not admit you.</p>

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<p>SAT 25/75</p>

<p>CR
600-680 - Northeastern
610-710 - NYU
610-700 - Tulane</p>

<p>Math
630-710 - Northeastern
630-740 - NYU
620-700 - Tulane</p>

<p>Writing
590-680 - Northeastern
620-720 - NYU
620-710 - Tulane</p>

<p>ACT
28-31 - Northeastern
28-31 - NYU
29-32 - Tulane</p>

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<p>USNWR Undergraduate School Rankings</p>

<ol>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Tulane</li>
<li>Northeastern</li>
</ol>

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<p>I see so I guess I wasn’t what northeastern was looking for. Still, I believe I should have gotten in. I personally think that I was tufts syndromed.</p>

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<p>It’s hard to say on an individual basis. Northeastern has been getting very competitive lately. </p>

<p>However, I’ve looked at Naviance scattergrams and there are clearly schools that practice this. Some of the biggest offenders that I’ve seen are WUSTL - which waitlists most people, GWU, Union and Colby.</p>

<p>GWU for example seems to have an admitted “band”. If your stats are too low, you get rejected, if they are just right, you get in, if they are too high, you get waitlisted. I haven’t seen a lot of outright rejection of very high stat students, but I’ve seen a lot of waitlist. Usually the student has a better option anyway, so the school guessed right. </p>

<p>Interestingly, Tufts no longer appears to practice this.</p>

7

<p>I’ve also studied scattergrams, and I too think it happens at some schools. For example, the pattern I saw suggested this at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>But not at Tufts, as ClassicRockerDad says. I think the syndrome needs a new, more generic, name.</p>

8

<p>As long as schools care about their “yield” (ratio of matriculated students and admitted students), this syndrome–whatever you want to call it–will exist. And the only reason schools care about yield (other than determining how many students to admit) is that prospective students and their parents seem to put some weight on it as indicative of popularity or revealed preference. But yield itself tells you very little–other than the fact that some students with multiple admissions decided to go elsewhere. But without knowing where “elsewhere” is, it really doesn’t tell you very much.</p>

<p>This syndrome appears to have quieted down in recent years since USNWR stopped using yield as a ranking factor (because they decided it was of little utility). Nonetheless, yield is still a reported figure and as long as some people think it is important, schools will come up with methods to increase it. The most obvious method is to reject (or waitlist) students who you predict will not accept the admission and matriculate.</p>

9

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<p>Maybe, though I’m skeptical. If a school was going to have such a policy (overtly stated or merely implied) it seems to me that you’d start by rejecting those students who were at least at the 75th%-tile and higher since these are the students most likely to get accepted to “tougher” schools and therefore less likely to attend Northeastern. Smokey, in your case, using onecircuit’s numbers, you’re at roughly the 67th%-tile. So while I’m surprised you didn’t get an acceptance, it’s possible that there were other factors that affected your outcome (e.g., maybe they’d already reached their quota of sword-wielding tae kwon do instructors from your area or maybe, feeling that Northeastern was your safety, there was something in your essays that gave off the impression that Northeastern was merely a back-up).</p>

<p>Regardless, the “Tufts Syndrome” has always baffled me. It essentially says that a school feels it can’t compete for certain students. Not only that, it also implies that the admissions staff at a given school has the foresight to know which students will get accepted at “better” places and which ones won’t. It seems like a fairly high stakes game of chicken where-in the school misses out on a potentially very qualified candidate for the perceived benefit of a marginally better yield. I’m not saying the syndrome doesn’t exist, just that it relies on a fairly convoluted logic.</p>

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<p>Well there was no supplemental essay required for Northeastern (at least I think so?). In the supplement it asked for the colleges that I was applying to and Northeastern was one of the lowest ranked and least selective (at least I thought so) in the list of colleges I applied to. Northeastern is becoming more recognized and competitive with each passing year, so I could guess why I would be waitlisted. I guess Northeastern got the “your my safety school vibe” from me. My scores were good enough to get in but not enough to gain any significant financial aid or scholarships, I guess the admissions officers figured that I wouldn’t be attending even if I got in (which is true, NYU 15’ or Tulane 15’). I don’t want to sound conceited but I believe with my stats I should have gotten in easily to Northeastern. I guess I was overconfident about my scores and such. The admissions officer didn’t want to waste up a slot on a person that wasn’t even that good compared to other candidates and wouldn’t even attend if said person was accepted.</p>

11

<p>Vinceh–In fact, many if not most highly selective colleges use complicated algorithims to predict how many admitted students are likely to accept admisson offers. This is used in determing projected yields and how many students to admit to fill (and not underfill or overfill) the class. While not perfect, the predictions often come remarkably close to actual numbers. Obviously, no one can accurately predict decisions by individual candidates but I suspect that an admissions officer who is familiar with the factors going into the algorithim can make a pretty good educated guess as to the liklihood of any particular applicant accepting an offer.</p>

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<p>I don’t think this is quite right. Some schools care about yield because yield affects their acceptance rate, and it’s the acceptance rate (not yield itself) that many prospective students and their parents take as a proxy for “selectivity,” desirability, and quality. If they accept a lot of students who are cross-admits at higher-ranked schools, they’ll need to accept larger numbers in order to reach their target number for enrollment in the entering class, because their yield in that group with multiple attractive options will be lower. On the other hand, if most of their admits are students who will likely be cross-admits at similarly- or lower-ranked schools, they’ll snare a higher percentage of them, their acceptance rate will be lower, and they may appear more “selective” and therefore more attractive in subsequent rounds of admissions. Besides (they may figure) when all the dust settles they’re likely to have an entering class with pretty much the same stats either way, as most of the kids with the strongest stats go elsewhere; so why not go for the strategy that gives them a lowest acceptance rate and therefore makes them appear more desirable?</p>

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<p>This isn’t as much a guessing game as you might think. Schools keep detailed records of the stats of their admits and enrolled freshmen, and they can easily retrieve and aggregate that data across multiple admission cycles. It’s really not a difficult statistical manipulation to break that down into expected yield curves for various “bands” of applicants. So a school like Northeastern, for example, can probably look at its records and see that in the past 5 years it’s offered admission to X number of applicants with unweighted GPAs of 4.0 and SAT scores in the 2300-2400 range, and see that only 1 or 2% of them have ever enrolled. And if that’s the case, what’s to be gained by offering admission to the next one that comes down the pike? Especially if your 75th percentile SAT scores are well below that level. In Northeastern’s case, 75th percentile SAT is 2040. So for purposes of raising its 75th percentile SAT score (and thereby boosting its US News ranking), an admit just marginally above 2040 is just as valuable to Northeastern as the applicant with the 2300, and the one just above the 2040 level is, statistically speaking, far likelier to enroll.</p>

<p>Call it lack of self-confidence, call it manipulation, call it whatever you like. In a certain sense, though, it’s just hard-headed, common-sense pragmatism and self-interest that a school would concentrate on going after the best-qualified students it’s likely to be able to land, and not the best in an absolute sense. That’s the way to boost the stats of its entering class, keep its admit rate down, and thereby appear more attractive to subsequent rounds of applicants.</p>

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<p>There’s no doubt in my mind that colleges practice yield protection aka “Tufts Syndrome”. What I’m asking is if yield protection is a common practice among colleges. Judging from everyone’s posts, I see that top tiered colleges are in fact guilty of this practice (yet discreetly hide them). It makes sense. Why waste a spot on someone that isn’t even going to attend when there are hundreds of kids that are close in capabilities that will actually attend. I guess my main question is whether or not I was actually a victim of yield protection or Tufts Syndrome. I’m really just curious that’s all.</p>

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<p>Quite possible. Northeastern is not a typical school. There is the experiential learning requirement, usually completed through coop. If a high stat applicant really wanted to attend Northeastern, mention of coop or career plans would have helped in the essay. Also, a visit to the campus and registering for a campus/program info session would help. BTW, in the Northeastern threads, there are applicants posting accepted with 2250 SAT’s so Tufts Syndrome may not really apply. </p>

<p>Also, a Northeastern blog indicated that last year, an applicant wrote in his essay about what he felt that the NORTHWESTERN University experience would provide him. If you get the name of the school wrong, you are in trouble!</p>

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<p>Bump for curiosity sake.</p>

<p>After further thought and process, I can see that even though I should have gotten into Northeastern I didn’t necessarily have a guaranteed spot. I still think I should have gotten in. I think my low grades during my first semester might have turned them off. Still…I’ve taken 11 AP classes and got a 1980 on the SATs. Captain of an nationally recognized fencing team…I mean I got into Tulane and NYU.</p>

16

<p>No offense dude, but you got a 1950 on the SAT. If your reading and math were combined 1350, that means you got a 600 on the writing. Let’s say I divide your math and reading evenly (obviously it could be any combination), but that means you got a 675 on reading and 675 on math, both of which still aren’t outside the range of Northeastern 25-75% SAT.</p>

<p>Not saying you aren’t smart or anything, but you shouldn’t be so cocky that you are automatically in.</p>

<p>On the other hand, SAT and AP’s don’t just make up your acceptance. It may surprise you, but 11 AP’s is becoming more of a norm now a days. Some kids even take more. The question is how well did you do in those classes. Are you going to be Valedictorian or something? Or are you simply just top 10%?</p>

<p>And I am sure your fencing team is great, but I don’t even know top fencing schools at all.</p>

<p>Lastly, seeing how you found out about NYU and Tulane already indicates to me that you need a lot of financial aid. Some schools reject applicants because the school can’t afford to meet their financial aid OR some schools (like NYU and Tulane) seek socio-economic diversity while other schools may not or cannot (perhaps Northeastern?).</p>

<p>But each college is different and each person is different. So you can never know. College now a days is more than having a good SAT score and taking 11 AP’s or being in the top 10%. That’s expected. And while these were the norms of top schools, I feel it has been trickling downwards to other institutions. But who knows.</p>

<p>To me it seems more like that you disregarded Northeastern in the application process/your essays, and that hurt you. Just because you got rejected doesn’t mean you aren’t capable and it doesn’t mean that Northeastern practices yield protection. To me, yield protection is an excuse for cocky high schoolers who act like they have a right to attend any University they choose.</p>

<p>Be happy about getting into NYU and Tulane and don’t blame a University for not liking you. </p>

<p>It’s like the popular dude making an excuse of why the okay-looking chick doesn’t like him. Sometimes you aren’t a universities type. Deal with it.</p>

<p>Additionally, I have never seen evidence of yield protection practiced at any university (please show me proof if you have any from a credible source, of course).</p>

<p>Again, seems like an excuse conjured up by people who are self-concious or have an inferiority complex on CC. Just be happy to where you got in and don’t look back.</p>

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<p>Hunt…definitely NOT Swarthmore, considering most of the students accepted there are as or nearly as qualified as students at Ivies and other top schools. Its acceptance rate is lower than UPenn and Cornell and its SAT mid-range is higher than that of Brown, Cornell, Penn, Dartmouth, and Columbia. I’m not saying it is necessarily a better school than any of the Ivies (though probably Cornell), but it is certainly nearly as high or as high and therefore they aren’t rejecting applicants because they fear that they are applying to Swarthmore as an Ivy safety, but simply cause they aren’t as strong as other applicants. I’m not biased here BTW, I go to Williams…</p>

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<p>700 Reading
650 Math
630 Writing
= 1980 SAT Score.</p>

<p>I’m not here trying to be cocky or to bash Northeastern. It’s just a huge blow to my self-confidence and security knowing that my perceived safety school waitlisted me while I got into my higher target schools. Also I didn’t apply for financial aid for northeastern. There isn’t an supplemental essay for Northeastern and it was common app. The same app I did for NYU and Umich is exactly the same as for Northeastern. Northeastern actually sent me a letter waiving my application fee. </p>

<p>Northeastern is an amazing school that’s getting better and more well-known every year. But Tulane and NYU are definitely a lot more selective than Northeastern yet I got into those schools. I wouldn’t be making this post if I got accepted to Northeastern but got denied from NYU or Tulane because I expected to get denied.</p>

<p>I guess Northeastern wasn’t interested in me. But I don’t know. I’m really just curious.</p>

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<p>Our anecdotal evidence of one student indicates that “Tufts Syndrome” is still practiced at Tufts. WL at Tufts, and in at Swarthmore, UChicago, Rice, etc.</p>

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<p>I think it is. I got into Cornell, Johns Hopkins,Columbia and my local state U (full ride)</p>

<p>but Tufts never even gave me an interview and will probably reject.</p>

<p>can’t say that I care. :)</p>