That is a patently untrue characterization of Barnard life. I will admit that my perspective is probably influenced by the fact that half of the Barnard physical campus was shut down for construction of the Diana Center while my daughter attended school, so there literally was no place to hang out and socialize on campus during most of my d’s time at Barnard – but having visited the now open center, I don’t see how it will be that much of a magnet, especially for upperclass-women who are no longer living in the quad. Other than classes and certain EC-type activities, there’s just not much there to draw a student living several blocks away to the campus. </p>
<p>To me, the “campus” seems to also encompass the Broadway corridor from 116th down at least 8 or 10 blocks. It seems that every time I visited my daughter after her first year, we ended up walking up and down Broadway & Amsterdam, and invariably, every block of the way, we would run into several of my d’s college friends (from both Columbia and Barnard) --and I had more of sense of social connection going on there than on either campus. I’d walk around Columbia during the evenings and the campus seem quite empty, unless there was some sort of specific organized gathering. So neither campus had much of sense of “center” from my observation. (I spent 3 years at Berkeley so I look at universities in the context of a campus that is much more of a hub for the local community).</p>
<p>In any case, I’d take whatever a campus tour guide says about any campus with a grain of salt. Their job is to present their campus in the most positive light possible, and they have a set of talking points that is more the creation of the college marketing department than reality.</p>
I think you meant the second half of your sentence to be the other way around. What you stated is an obvious result of the factual statement in the sentence.</p>
<p>You are right – I meant to say that because of the different criteria, it is possible for a student to be admitted to Columbia and turned down from Barnard – and there are even students who have posted on CC that it is what happened to them. </p>
<p>That all goes to the fact that selective college admissions is not an objective process based on test scores and GPA.</p>
<p>“… dont want to go to women’s college, should I apply to Barnard or Columbia ?”</p>
<p>Barnard is a women’s college last time I checked, which means, all of your classes will be filled with women only, and any school only events will be women only.</p>
<p>And last time I checked, Columbia Admissions does not handle Barnard admissions; Columbia has a larger application rate, which means more people compete for admission, whereas Barnard has a lower application rate, meaning there are less students competing for acceptance there. </p>
<p>Barnard pays Columbia for the affiliation, so if you do go there, be prepared for constant criticism (by Columbia students), as there have always been arguments between Columbia and Barnard students ever since the affiliation.</p>
<p>EDIT: Yes, forgot about the cross registering thing. I take back the statement about classes being full of women only, my apologies.</p>
<p>^ not my daughter’s experience … not even close … the Columbia/Barnard affiliation has been terrific for her … including working with a Columbia prof on research as a Barnard frosh.</p>
<p>Not true at all. Probably 95% of Barnard classes are open to Columbia students, and there are generally going to be men in most of the larger courses. The exception would be the first year writing seminars, and senior research seminars that are reserved for Barnard majors in the department offering those seminars. (Those are usually in conjunction with the senior thesis). </p>
<p>Classes tend to be predominantly female - but definitely there will be males in most classes. Also, males are going to be attending various campus events that have anything likely to entice them to attend (such as free food); many Barnard/Columbia clubs meet regularly on the Barnard campus; and other than student government, Barnard activities are open to Columbia students. For example, my daughter had a regular radio program at WBAR; there are male Columbia students with WBAR programs – if you look at the current schedule at <a href=“http://wbar.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2010/02/picture-4.png[/url]”>http://wbar.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2010/02/picture-4.png</a> you’ll see that a lot of guys have shows. (Radio is kind of a solitary activity, actually, but they do attend some meetings together and run into each other coming & going from the studio). </p>
<p>Barnard is a womens college, but it is a women’s college affiliated with a co-ed university with a unified enrollment system and a course system that involves overlapping faculty. That is, many of the university courses are designated as “W” or “V” courses and may be taught interchangeably by Barnard or Columbia faculty, on either campus. Many departments are operated jointly. And of course Barnard women will end up taking courses on the Columbia campus – on average, Barnard women take about 1/3 of their classes at Columbia. </p>
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<p>The money flows both ways. Barnard pays Columbia for use of its resources, Columbia pays Barnard for use of its resources. Since Columbia has greater resources, the balance tends to be Barnard writing a check to Columbia, but there have been times when the course enrollment exchange shifted in Barnard’s favor (with more Columbia students in Barnard courses than vice versa).</p>
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<p>As to the OP’s question, if she is unsure where she wants to attend, she’s free to apply to both.</p>
<p>It’s a bit off topic, but as few people mentioned Oxbridge: the college system here is completely different - the colleges are integral parts of the university, and never been independent institutions, despite having their own land, endowment and income. Each provide an unique socialization, but the teaching is administered both by the college and the departments/faculties - the overwhelming majority of the professors is a member of one college, and belongs to a certain department as well. </p>
<p>Also, the degrees are awarded by the university, simply naming the college which the student was a member of. And at graduate level, colleges barely bear any importance, since students primarily affiliated with their department, and there is no graduate teaching in the colleges. Of course, being a member of an old and rich college certeanly do not hurt even at a graduate level Still, the connections between the university and the colleges in Oxbridge is completely different from the relations between, say, Barnard and Columbia. But even the townsfolk in Cambridge and Oxford are not always aware of this, so the Oxbridge college system usually confuses everyone, and people are tend to think that the colleges are independent institutions, or just loosely connected with the university. This is not the case, however.</p>
<p>Anyway, Columbia have one of the best history department in the world, so if you’re interested in history, definitely go there.</p>
<p>I found the post I’d read previously, it was from a college professor,he/she was just pointing out similarity in certain respects, not in every respect.</p>
<p>“An aspect of the Barnard-Columbia relationship worth considering is that Barnard faculty members undergo tenure reviews both at Barnard and at Columbia U.”
[snipped]
“One finds an analogous situation at Newnham, the women’s college at Cambridge (U.K.). The college is a part of Cambridge, students get a Cambridge degree, and the only professors who have tenure have had to undergo review at both the College and University levels.”
[later]
“Thus, if you look at Columbia U. departments you will see a number of distinguished Barnard faculty who are tenured there.”</p>
<p>First of all, in the UK there is no such thing like US style tenure Of course, ALL students of the university receive their degrees from the university, although at the same time, all student are members to a college as well. This is especially important at an undergrad level since the primary place for socialization is the college. But again, it have nothing to do with the relationship between Barnard and Columbia. </p>
<p>But…that’s true, Newham members receive their degrees from the university. How interesting, members of ALL 31 colleges receive their degrees from Cambridge University Again: the Oxbridge college system have nothing to do with the relations between some liberal arts (women) colleges and Ivies. The Oxbridge colleges founded to be integrated parts of the university, and never ever been independent institutions, despite having their own land and income. They are self-governed institutions, but not independent ones. It’s not the case that the colleges were independent, just merged with Cambridge. No, I repeat, they founded to be integral parts of the university, and no Oxbridge college was ever independent. </p>
<p>Well, it does mean that at the UO site they explained something with a familiar word to the US public (or at least for those who visit the site). Let’s say there are positions close to the lifetime tenure in the US, but these are not exactly the same.</p>
<p>Last time I checked, Oregon was definitely not in the UK, so this does not appear in an UK institution’s page :)</p>
<p>But that’s true, that most lecturers/professors are members of one college as well. They receive their salary from the university, but receive, say, 10.000 pounds from the college too, and in many cases they also receive a flat, or some money for housing. But, there are lecturers primary affiliated with the college, in their case the payment is just the reverse: more from the college, les from the faculty/department.</p>
<p>But this IS how it works at Columbia – ALL students from each undergraduate or graduate school or college get their degrees from Columbia University, but each student is affiliated and enrolled via a different school or college.</p>
<p>Ahhh…hey, please, believe me when I’m saying that the Oxbridge college system is nothing like anything in the US. Here everyone is affiliated with both the university and one college, no separate affilations exists - that never ever happened. Also, graduate schools and colleges auch as Balard are truly differ. I know how the US system works, and I know how the Oxbridge system, and the connections between the colleges here really differ from those. Just visit Wikipedia sites about Oxbridge ;)</p>
<p>Gerald, I really do not know how the Oxbridge system works, so I can’t speak to that. I just am trying to point out that at Columbia, each student is affiliated with both the University and with whatever college or school they happen to be enrolled in. With Columbia College it is a direct affiliation – with Barnard, the affiliation agreement is somewhat different, but it exists nonetheless. Barnard students are issued CUID’s (Columbia University ID’s) and Columbia university emails when they enroll, as well as their own separate Barnard id’s/emails – and Barnard college cannot issue a degree of its own. Rather, the Barnard faculty recommends degree candidates to the University, and the degree is issued by Columbia U. </p>
<p>So I’m having a difficult time seeing the distinction you are trying to draw. I realize that there may be many other ways in which the systems are very different, but the dual college/University affiliation seems to be quite similar. </p>
<p>Now on the faculty end of things it might be different, if you are saying that Oxbridge faculty can be affiliated with only one college. I know that a lot of the Barnard faculty hold dual or multiple appointments between Barnard college and other Columbia colleges or institutes. I have no idea how that translates in terms of tenuring process or where they draw their paychecks – I just know that its fairly easy to spot that when you are looking at their job titles. (They typically will have multiple “roles” listed on their faculty bio pages). </p>
<p>I do get the sense that perhaps the colleges under Oxford are all more like Barnard – I found this online: “There are 38 independent, self-governing colleges at Oxford University.” - [The</a> collegiate system - University of Oxford](<a href=“http://www.ox.ac.uk/colleges/the_collegiate_system/index.html]The”>http://www.ox.ac.uk/colleges/the_collegiate_system/index.html) – Barnard could be described as “independent, self-governing” – but Columbia College, being directly under the Columbia University umbrella, is not – I think you would have to describe CC has having a “dependent, shared” governance with CU – so perhaps that is what you were getting at?</p>
<p>Indeed, at Oxbridge the faculty cannot be a fellow of multiple colleges, just one. Not everyone who holds the rank of a lecturer or professor is affiliated with a college, but the vast majority is affiliated with one, because of the obvious benefits (money and other).
Well, they are independent to a certain degree, but they can not, say, introduce new courses or degrees. Also, all the research goes on I n the departments and research facilities, which are, with the exception of a few, belongs to the central university, not to the colleges.</p>
<p>As I said previously, the colleges are important for undergrad teaching (supervisions, for example), and, most importantly, socializing – the latter is unparalleled in the world, I think. Frankly, the whole Oxbridge college thing is a bit exaggerated, at least on a graduate level.</p>
<p>In sum, there are certain similarities with how some liberal arts colleges connect to Ivies, but those were initially independent institutions.</p>
Still, the connections between the university and the colleges in Oxbridge is completely different from the relations between, say, Barnard and Columbia. But even the townsfolk in Cambridge and Oxford are not always aware of this, so the Oxbridge college system usually confuses everyone, and people are tend to think that the colleges are independent institutions, or just loosely connected with the university. This is not the case, however.</p>![http://wbar.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2010/02/picture-4.png[/url]](http://wbar.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/picture-4.png%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
