Sykology – I went to college eons ago (private) and am now the parent of four children. I know MANY high-achieving kids (including my own, along with the children of friends, neighbors, and colleagues) who have picked state colleges over highly selective private colleges and are doing great. In fact, the large public school that one of my kids attends has been far more responsive, proactive, and organized than the small private college my other child attends. So I get a little tired of reading posts by private college students/alumni who assume that academics and student behavior much be so much worse at public schools. It’s an elitist assumption perpetuated out of ignorance.
Does Vanderbilt have a culture of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking--more than other schools
My statement meant to suggest that the vast majority of mid-to-low tier large, public universities have an overall greater culture of alcoholism/drug use/partying and an overall weaker academic culture than do top tier (usually private) institutions like Vanderbilt. There are probably some exceptions and I am quite obviously not speaking of every single student at both institutions. I very nearly attended a large public as well. I’m talking about general behavior and greater culture. It’s nothing to take offense to. I use “big state schools” as a general example because they’re easy to relate to, but I do not intend just to compare large publics to small privates. There are plenty of low-tier private institutions with awful cultures, and top-tier large public with great cultures.
I do believe these large mid-to-low tier public institutions come with more peer pressure to engage in negative behaviors and have created a social environment where they are more normal and acceptable, as well as where academics are slightly less stressful and time-consuming. I have found plenty of my own evidence, both anecdotal and data-driven. I am certainly not intending to attack the character of students who choose to attend. Of course many who attend still maintain excellent character and haver fantastic outcomes.
Sounds like you’ll disagree with me on this but it’s not exactly related to the topic of discussion here anyway so let’s move on and focus on Vanderbilt’s culture which it sounds like you have no familiarity with.
Well, @Pancaked i will say that Dartmouth and Brown are immediate exceptions to your rule that state universities have a “higher overall greater culture of alcoholism/drug use/partying.”
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/americas-best-and-drunkest-269866.html
@SouthernHope, I can’t find any evidence of the problem being worse at Dartmouth or Brown – the article does not provide any statistics on the matter. In fact, the article admits that these Universities are under higher scrutiny because they are elite academic institutions, suggesting problems like this fly under the university at other schools. It also admits that these Universities are among the few who take the issue seriously and have been very responsive/organized in responding to it.
I think the article focuses on Dartmouth because they known as the creators of beer pong and there’s some delusion that normal college behavior doesn’t happen in the Ivy League. If you wanted to change the target of the article to, say, Ohio State University, you’d have no issue finding plenty of videos, news reports, statistics, horror stories, student testimonials, etc to make it appear as bad as you’d like and make beer pong look absolutely innocent.
In my experience, the scenes described in the article do not sound unlike things you can certainly find at Vanderbilt as well as every other school. That doesn’t exactly speak to the relative prevalence of this culture. Not to mention, Dartmouth is a bit of an anomaly when it comes to beer pong, as they take great pride in having (apparently) invented the sport.
As I said, I know there are exceptions and I’m always open to new information.
Universities can’t control the decisions of young people who are typically experiencing their first real personal freedom. However, they can influence those decision. I’ve been a Vandy parent for a long time - S started there in fall of '02 and D in '05. S returned for law school and D is currently enrolled in a masters program at Vandy where these kinds of topics are frequently discussed. Over these last dozen+ years, I’ve watched Vanderbilt do two things that I think have been impressive. One is strengthen the freshman orientation by creating a semester long Vanderbilt Visions program with VUceptor involvement that goes beyond the initial first weeks, which is what both of my kids had.
The second is the implementation of the Commons Residential model which is more than just a housing plan. The Commons was in the works when S & I visited campus in September of 2001, but it took many years, lots of planning, and $$$ for it to become a reality. The Residential College system now in place has put freshmen on the opposite side of campus from Greek Row and has had success at developing stronger relationships among freshmen from what I read. Pancaked and other current students can correct me if I’m wrong, but I am under the impression that the focus on longer orientation in the students’ houses means that students receive more substantive instruction related to sexual assault, underage drinking, and other transitional issues facing first year students. The Commons also offers the opportunity for students to develop strong relationships with the residential faculty mentors. Do all of these things diminish the risks of sexual assault, alcohol and drug abuse, or the mental health issues often faced by first year students? I don’t know, but at least Vandy is making an effort.
Is this what motivated the question that started this thread? http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2015/0127/Guilty-Two-Vanderbilt-football-players-will-face-jail-in-rape-conviction
uesmomof2: Yes.
@2vu0609 … great post. But just to be clear, this Vanderbilt rape case happened on the Commons in a freshman dorm.
@KaMaMom , It occurred over the summer, when the freshman dorms are used to house athletes in town for training and summer term students of all ages.
Thanks for the reminder @pancaked.
The OP said “news reports were discussing Vanderbilt’s culture of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking”. Not true. News outlets were reporting that the defense attorneys for these two defendants were using this “culture” as a defense for a crime committed by their clients which was captured on camera. IMO, a desperate attempt to muddy the waters to try to divert the media attention in a different direction. I guess it worked on this forum. Even the prosecutor said this “culture” defense was no defense and was a “red herring”. Thank goodness the jury didn’t fall for It and juctice was served.
I feel very comfortable with my son at Vanderbilt and yes he’s in a fraternity. As much as I feel like I’m giving credence to these defendants by even discussing this, I must say IMO there is nothing going on at Vanderbilt that isn’t going on at almost every other college or university in this country.
@pancaked - I understood exactly what you were saying and didnt think you “thought you were better than anyone”. There is “no joke” to being a student at Vanderbilt. You are at a prestigious, selective, beautiful university where you will receive a great education, and you all should be proud…
Disgusting and tragic is all I can say. The alcohol and culture BS defense is all they had to defend these men with in hopes of shorter jail time. Thankfully the jury understood this BS defense and that there is no culture anywhere that condones what these men did.
A thumbs up to Vanderbilt for immediately expelling these students and banning them from campus and for getting law enforcement involved immediately. At many other U’s they would go through a peer review committee, not call in the police, not report the assault, the attackers would still be in school, and at some U’s they would still be playing football.
As it turns out, this incident happened the day before the PreVu event we attended the summer of 2013. It’s strange to contrast the great visit we had with the horrible event that had just occurred.
I have a lot of knowledge about Vanderbilt and the athletes. These 4 football players are a very unfortunate and disgraceful exception to the norm for Vanderbilt athletes. As far as Kyle Fuller and his ridiculous book- his former teammates and current players are completely disgusted and have expressed this clearly to him in social media. He is full of BS.
Most of the Vanderbilt athletes are appreciative of the opportunity to get a degree from such a top university and to participate in SEC athletics. They are wonderful young men and women. There are always exceptions, and the backgrounds of the athletes vary.
There is definitely drinking and partying, but not any more than I observed at Penn when my son was there. There is a large Greek presence, but students who are not interested in that have plenty of social opportunities as well. I’m not sure what the poster who referred to “southern drinking culture” meant. I attended a large Midwest public university and a top 3 law school after that, and neither were in the south and there was a huge amount of drinking! College students drink.
I followed the Vandy rape trial closely (I am a lawyer in Nashville) and it is disturbing and disgusting, but should not be viewed by anyone as representative of Vanderbilt culture or student athletes. I personally think Brandon Vandenburg (in particular) is a disturbed young man and I am happy that the jurors sent a clear message with their swift verdict.
@MomofWildChild
I am the one who posted about the Southern drinking culture. I should have put this term in quotes, because I meant it to be tongue-in-cheek. As a Southerner, I have heard the stereotypes that “good ol’ boys” like to get drunk and party more often/to a greater extent than those elsewhere. Like you, I have found no evidence for this stereotype, which is why it was a non-factor in my daughter’s decision to attend Vanderbilt, a southern school.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
My D graduated from Vanderbilt a few years ago. She originally turned down their offer of admission, based on the “party, party, party” posts on the Vanderbilt 20XX facebook group. She had no interest in getting trashed every weekend. She went to a small, southern LAC freshman year, which suited her socially - but she transferred to Vanderbilt sophomore year for increased academic opportunities, which she absolutely found at Vanderbilt. She did find a culture of partying, but by then she had enough friends at other colleges to know that it was pretty normal for college campuses. She avoided all fraternity parties, didn’t rush, didn’t go bar hopping … and she managed to find friends to hang with and things to do. I will be honest … she did feel that she was more the exception than the rule … but she had so many amazing opportunities as a result of attending Vanderbilt. She was mature enough to understand that she could carve her own path, and she did. She has not regretted it, and she has a great career thanks to her Vanderbilt degree.
The question expressly concerned: 1) a “culture of promiscuity and 2) rampant underage drinking”. I am a Vandy dad with too much time on my hands, so I watched the rape trial over the internet. My son graduated from Vandy just eight months ago. He is 22 years old. I can remember when I was 22. If Vanderbilt really had a “culture of promiscuity”, I would not have been able to pry him out of the school without the jaws of life – he would have flunked classes on purpose just to stay there a few more semesters (I know I would have). Alas, he graduated on schedule. Like others on this board, I conclude that Vandy is no more or no less promiscuous than the average school. There are 6,800 undergrads. I think you will find the full range.
Concerning the Vanderbilt trial, one of the two accused (Cory Batey) used the “culture of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking” as the center piece of his defense. Why? Because Mr. Batey had no other defense to speak of–zero–nada. Mr. Batey is explicitly on video, and the victim was very solid on the stand. Were I Mr. Batey’s attorney, I would have tried the same thing because, when you are dealing with a video that clearly shows an unconscious victim, the old “she asked for it” defense won’t carry one drop of water. Give no weight to the straw grasped by the defense.
Is there “rampant underage drinking”? Yep. But I doubt anybody is going to put a gun to your kid’s head. Nobody “made me” drink when I was in college. When I got drunk, I did it one gulp at a time: ie, I made dozens of decisions all on my own. If your kid goes to Vandy (or Duke or Brown or Emory or Alabama or BYU --yes, even BYU!) your kid will, all on their own, have to make dozens of little decisions in order to get drunk or take a lethal dose of heroin or fly off to a monastery in Kathmandu.
Which brings me to the UNstated part of this topic: parents are afraid. My kids have graduated from great schools and are successfully employed, and I am still afraid. My God, these kids are my everything, and now I have almost no control over what happens to them. Biologists all tell me that a boy’s prefrontal cortex is FUBAR until age 25, so I worry about my son’s judgement. And when I remember my judgement before age 25–I just want to lock my son in the basement for the next three years. Of course, my 24 year old daughter is being chased around by these same sub 25 year old boys. I feel helpless. And did I mention–I have no CONTROL.
Given this rape trial, you would be a bad parent if you didn’t ask questions about sex and booze, but I want you to consider that your question is just as much about your fear of losing control over the thing you love most. An old lady told me that we owe our kids “roots and wings–and wings is hard.” I am still trying.
BTW, we can all be proud of the way Vanderbilt handled this case.
I am very proud of how Vanderbilt handled this case. For those of you with concerns about the sports culture, I will say again that almost all of the Vandy athletes with whom I associate- and this includes basketball, women’s bowling, women’s track, a few football and baseball- are just excellent students and good kids. The center on the basketball team, Damian Jones, is an electrical engineering major. The baseball coach tolerates absolutely NO misconduct of any kind and the players are taught as soon as they arrive on campus to stand at military attention during every singing of the national anthem. There are always going to be a few bad ones that slip through- and Vandenburg was never Vandy material and should not have been recruited. Batey- good reports from high school, but lost his moral compass when he hit campus.
Excellent post above by thecoldeye. As parents, we can only do so much and after that you just pray…
Missed the reference to Brown in this citation. Maybe it is my poor reading, maybe it is a bad cite. Which?
MOWC, interesting that you mention Tim Corbin’s high standards and his teaching players respectful behavior during the national anthem. He lives near D and his front yard display during Christmas is, IMO, way more patriotic than “Christmasy”. I’ve been very impressed with everything I’ve seen related to VU baseball.