Vanderbilt is on my Ds short list of schools. All the negative publicity surrounding the rape case is causing me to reconsider whether this school would be appropriate. I realize drinking and sex occur at every university. However, news reports are discussing Vanderbilt’s “culture of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking”. Is this portrayal accurate? Typical of other universities? A factor of Vanderbilt’s excessive “entitled” rich-kids without limits?
Does Vanderbilt have a culture of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking--more than other schools
Every school is going to have a sizable amount of underage drinking and late-night activity. However, I have a few friends at Vanderbilt (3 females) and they were definitely party-girls while in high school. It all really depends on your daughter, if you trust her judgment and believe she has a good moral compass and sound core values then any school will be fine. The individual should control the environment, not the other way around. I wish you the best of luck and I hope your daughter has great success in her college applications.
It’s a frat/sorority-heavy school, which may play a role.
I have had one daughter graduate from Vanderbilt two years ago and my son will graduate from there this May. My daughter was in a sorority. My son is not in a fraternity. Is there underage drinking there? Sure. Is it worse than at other universities? I don’t think so. Promiscuity? Sure. Worse than other universities? I don’t think so.
Rich kids on campus? Sure. But plenty of others who are not.
Rape is a problem on most campuses. However, I have been mostly satisfied with the way Vanderbilt has handled this case. They did not try to hide what had happened.
Both my children love Vandy and I would send any of my other children there without any hesitation.
OP, a revolving door of top institutions have been in the news lately for sexual assault, including University of Virginia, Columbia, Wesleyan and Rhodes College. There are also 85 institutions currently under investigation for sexual assault cases. Some of those are Occidental, USC, Harvard, Brandeis, University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Emory, Knox College, UCLA, Berkeley, Dartmouth, Princeton, Sarah Lawrence, Penn State, Swarthmore, Brown, Southern Methodist, William & Mary, James Madison, and the University of Richmond. Even more colleges are conducting their own internal investigations and overhauls of how they handle sexual assault on campus. Probably an even larger group are not under investigation, but probably should change the way they handle sexual assault on campus.
My intent is not to be dismissive of sexual assault on college campuses (on the contrary, I think that colleges and governments and police forces should work together to devise ways handle sexual assault of college students and others on campus better). My point is, rather, that a wide variety of very fine academic institutions have bad sexual assault policies and/or have been in the news lately for a high-profile sexual assault that has happened. I think that’s partially because college sexual assault is currently on everyone’s minds, and the media are picking up stories that have been happening for decades but never really got told. Is there an increase in college sexual assault in recent years? I don’t know, but I don’t think increasing media reports are really a good indicator of anything.
I can tell you that having gone to and/or worked at three completely different kinds of institutions (a historically black women’s college, an elite medium-sized university similar to Vanderbilt, and a very large public institution) underaged drinking is rampant at pretty much every college, aside from possibly religious colleges whose ethics codes regulate it. It’s kind of baked into the ethos and expectations of college undergraduates. Of course, undergrads can avoid it if they want to and drink responsibly even if they do. Most top colleges also have a preponderance of upper-middle-class and wealthy kids. Vanderbilt is not really much different from Princeton, Dartmouth, Swarthmore, Johns Hopkins or Emory in that regard (or even, perhaps, UVa.)
I also do not want to trivialize the role that alcohol plays in college sexual assault. It does play a large role. But I want to point out that these media accounts are obscuring the fact that the majority of sexual assaults (an estimated 80%) are committed by someone the victim knows. It’s a sad fact, but a young college woman is much more likely to be raped by the “friend” or acquaintance (or boyfriend!) who offers to walk her home from a party because she’s drunk (aka, sees the drunkenness as an opportunity to take advantage of her vulnerability) than a random stranger at that party. The ones that are picked up by the news media are the most sensational ones - first of all, the ones that are reported (and it’s estimated that only 5% of college sexual assaults are reported, and that a full 42% of victims tell not a single soul about their assault), and then the ones that are the most sympathetic to a news-reading population (and that will bring the journalist page views and notoriety).
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The tl;dr is that I don’t know anything specifically about Vanderbilt’s culture, but I wouldn’t take the prominent rape case as an indication that Vanderbilt is more prone to rape and sexual assault than any other school of its caliber. Look at the university’s Clery Report, which maintains records on crime (violent and non-violent) that takes place on campus (although given the Title IX investigation…it may not be completely accurate…but that’s true of a LOT of universities).
FWIW, I was kind of a party girl myself in college (and early grad school lmao). It is possible to make responsible choices and protect yourself when drinking alcohol and having sex. That does not completely eliminate the chances of getting sexually assaulted (because again, as noted, most women are assaulted by someone they know and trust - and only half of sexual assaults involve alcohol). It’s just general good practice, though. When I was sexually assaulted in college, I was completely sober, and had not come from nor was heading to a party. I was on a date. (And I didn’t report it…so it wouldn’t show up in a Clery Report at my school.)
Don’t believe what any defense attorney says.
Juillet, thanks for the very detailed response. My biggest concern is the behavior of the majority of students…the campus culture. My D is social but not a partier. I’m not too worried about the choices she will make, but I am wondering if she will feel like she fits in. If most students are getting drunk on the weekends (and she isn’t), will she enjoy her experience at Vanderbilt? I know I might be naive–maybe she’ll become wild at college or experiment with new behaviors–but I don’t see her enjoying the party lifestyle or choosing to be around people that consistently make poor decisions.
Vanderbilt is not “State U”. The students there are all highly intelligent and driven. I don’t think she’ll have to worry about hanging out with “people that consistently make poor decisions”.
No…Vandy isn’t unique. Vandy is quite normal in that regard.
Unless you send your D to BYU or a Bible college, she’s going to see and be exposed to partying, sex, drinking, etc. Whether the school is an ivy, or a state school…it goes on.
Neither of my Vanderbilt students are big partiers and both have enjoyed their time there. Your daughter will be able to make friends with like minded students no matter where she decides to attend. You will also find students who make poor decisions at every university. If you decide to cross out every university where students make poor choices, engage in underage drinking, and where there have been rapes on campus, I am afraid that you will not be left with many choices.
The campus culture at Vandy is not one of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking. These things do occur just as they occur at just about every other university, except possibly highly religious schools. Although I attended a religious college and you could still find people who made poor choices, even if they would have been kicked out if they had been caught.
Trust your daughter that no matter where she decides to attend that she will make good choices.
Vandy has a higher Greek participation and sports emphasis compared to some of its academic peers like Chicago, Columbia, or Brown. Schools do vary on the prominence of the party culture. If Vandy is at the top of her list, I would encourage her to do an overnight there and judge for herself how comfortable she feels with the community.
Hanna has given good advice. Big difference between a tour and an overnight visit.
One more data point: S of good friends of ours is Freshman at Vandy. He wanted DI sports, but the “football mentality” has been a bit of a shock. Also, as a northerner, the culture has been quite different for him. Nonetheless, after a roommate swap, he is enjoying his first year there.
Good luck!
My D is a current freshman at Vanderbilt. We are very conservative, and my D has no interest in drinking. She is also not interest in Greek life and did not rush. I would say that she has had a few moments of being shocked by the promiscuous behaviors she has witnessed (yes, in public–one the first week of school on a shuttle bus), and she has certainly received an education in the college drinking culture (not through personal experience). In all honesty, it has been an adjustment for her in the sense that her eyes are opened, and she has a better understanding of the lifestyle some of her peers are choosing.
Having said that, D has been wise in making friends. She has had to be intentional in choosing friends with similar interests and values, but she now has quite a number of acquaintances/friends, and she is absolutely having a the best time of her life. She would not want to be anywhere else.
We are Southerners, and we did our homework about the Southern drinking culture before she made her decision to attend Vanderbilt. As for promiscuity, my guess is that there will always be students who will choose that route, regardless of the school. I think D would have had to face that issue no matter where she went. We’ve used the cases of sexual assault as teachable moments to help our D understand the risks and to take steps to protect herself and avoid those situations which are breeding grounds for any kind of assault.
As the parent of a daughter who will attend in the fall - I have been following the case. One of the most unique aspects of this case is that it actually went to trial. Most campus rape is not even reported, and if reported almost never goes to trial. This case has provoked discussion at home - but honestly it has not changed my message to my daughter. It’s about her staying in control of herself and making good decisions. She has to be the one to decide what and when anything will happen. I am not telling her what those decisions should be - only encouraging her to stay in control of herself and her surrounding/situation.
I agree with those who have said that Vanderbilt is not unique. Actually - I don’t even think the situation is unique to this generation. There was plenty going on in the 80s when I was in school. In fact I wonder if this will actually help put Vanderbilt out ahead of dealing with the situation? The campus newspaper has had a number of articles about efforts to address related issues.
But the issues will not be addressed if only parents of girls have these discussions. And the discussion with boys can’t focus on only the legal risk that is now linked into the definition of consent. It all comes down to self-respect and respect for others, and understanding that our decisions as adults have consequences.
Perhaps we should be thankful that teens and young adults still seem unable to understand that digital information is permanent? I found the testimony hard to read about - really upsetting. But I am not sure this case would have gone to court without the phone records. Just hoping it encourages discussion that can start promote a healthier, more respectful culture and environment on campuses.
That statement was nothing more than a legal tactic. No, Vanderbilt does not have a “culture of promiscuity and rampant underage drinking.” It does have a student body where some drink and engage in promiscuous behavior, just like every other University. There is certainly less of a drinking culture than you’d find at big state schools as there is a lot more dedication to academics (not to mention more academic rigor). As for promiscuous behavior, I have no idea how you’d compare that between universities, but it has never struck me as unusual.
I’m sure you’re familiar with how defense arguments work, particularly in cases like this where the evidence is stacked against the defendant. The attorneys are paid to throw absolutely everything at the wall and just see what sticks.
Most Vanderbilt students have been either amused or offended that we categorized this way considering the academic strength of our campus.
At the same time,I have no doubt that some of the athletes live in an entirely different culture that may be more similar to what the attorneys have described. If you’ve read the snippets from Kyle Fullers’s book (ex Vandy bball player), this is pretty apparent. It’s not consistent at all with the rest of campus,
There is a disturbing trend I’ve seen on this site and others where students at private colleges disparage students at state schools regarding their dedication to academics and the behaviors they engage in, similar to Pancaked’s comment that “There is certainly less of a drinking culture than you’d find at big state schools as there is a lot more dedication to academics (not to mention more academic rigor).”
Really? I’d like to ask Pancaked, or anyone else who doesn’t attend a state school, how they can make such a blanket statement. There are many, many, many students who TURN DOWN private colleges every year to attend their state flagship in order to save money. This is a very sound financial decision and doesn’t diminish these students’ dedication to academics or make them more likely to engage in risky, negative behaviors. These students expect–and get–an excellent education at their state flagships for a fraction of the cost and end up doing just as well in the job market after graduation. The joke is on all the private college kids who feel so superior. Get over yourselves.
The rape occurred in the summer (June) not during the fall or spring semesters. Just curious, how many students are typically on campus and staying in the dorms over the summer?
I really don’t know about Vanderbilt so much because my DD is a freshman, but when we toured FSU and UF during the school year, I remember seeing frat and sorority parties spilling out in the streets. I haven’t seen that at Vandy or maybe I just wasn’t there at the right time? I heard that girls who don’t belong to the sororities are not allowed inside the houses. Wouldn’t this make for less of a party atmosphere at the houses? Plus the fact that the frat and sororities are right outside of Sarratt and on campus would make a difference in the amount of partying that goes on there? Just trying to get a handle on the difference between a big state school where kids live in the houses as opposed to Vandy where they don’t.
@pilgrim6 , which state school did you go to? Don’t kid yourself about the general case, although I agree it is dangerous to make such a wide-reaching statement.
There are definitely frat parties with live bands and beer you can smell a block away. I visited my son on a football game weekend last fall. He is not in a frat, but has friends who are.