<p>I think the info could be very meaningful and it would be something I would like to see. Our small rural school is big on “We have APs and you can get college credit”. They lead parents to believe everyone will get credit. hahahaa. I don’t know anyone that has ever even gotten a 3 on an AP here. Yes, it is that pathetic.</p>
<p>In a similar vein, I would like to know what % of our students <em>actually attend</em> 2 or 4 year colleges. They report some very high percentage. Upon repeated questioning, they admitted this was the % of HS seniors, during the fall of sr. year, who indicated they <em>would</em> be pursuring addt’l education. There %s had to be way overestimated, based only on the kids I knew, off the top of my head, that didn’t go anywhere the following year.</p>
<p>I wish our school would be transparent and report accurate and objective information. It would be helpful to parents. It’s not like everyone is going to flee. The nearest private school is an hour away and costs $45000/yr. Not going to happen.</p>
<p>My son got a 3 on AP Stats, enough to get credit at many state schools. But his LAC required a 4 or 5, so he took Stats. He failed the class. Took it again with a different teacher and dropped it because he was failiing. He is a perfect example of “another” reason kids don’t do well in school. He has Executive Function Disorder…once he “got lost” in class, he stopped going. In the second class, the teacher had the students use a specialized computer program to take tests. My son couldn’t figure out the program, couldn’t manage to get himself to the teacher’s office hours to ask, so he could never pass a test.</p>
<p>If HS could identify students like him, they could maybe role play what to do if you get lost, don’t understand, what “office hours” are, how to find a tutor and finally, that you can drop a class and try again if all hope is lost.</p>
<p>Edited to add: At our school, I’d say that the majority - probably a large majority - of the parents have college degrees. That can be an issue in itself…back in the day, we took the SAT once, maybe applied only to our state U…there can be an attitude of “it’s not that hard, I did it” that doesn’t acknowledge other issues the child may have.</p>
<p>Some portions of the AP audit are apparently down all Feb, for system upgrades. Btw, I usually take collegeboard stats with a grain of salt, since they make their money convincing folks to pay them.</p>
<p>Rank in class is insufficient information without knowing (a) the size of the entire class, and (b) the general level of academic qualifications of students at the school. (And it becomes even less of a valid comparison if they go to different schools.)</p>
<p>And courses and grades may give a better idea anyway. A record of all honors / AP / most advanced possible courses with mostly A and a few B grades may be more impressive than all A grades in “regular” courses.</p>
<p>Not to say that SAT is that great a predictor for relatively small differences.</p>
<p>High performing school. Both students have 11-13 APs.</p>
<p>My conclusion by seeing the stats on paper would be that X is an extremely hard worker and Y is a slacker. I think organization and study skills goes a lot further than IQ points at most colleges.</p>
<p>missypie, does your school have a school profile on line? I just looked at ours, and saw, for instance that last year 228 students took 424 AP exams, and that 84% of the scores were 3, 4, and 5. What really impressed me is that the physics teacher showed us a chart at conferences that indicated how her students last year (in aggregate) did on each question. She uses it to figure out what areas she’s not covering well enough and tries to improve each year. So data is there, in great detail.</p>
<p>As to the alumni data, that’s harder. It almost sounds like a research project that a college student might do, is there a local university that might partner with you to take that on?</p>
<p>What’s impressive about 4s and 5s on AP tests is that they supposedly test a college level of knowledge. And, some kids take APs that are pretty challenging- microbiology, economics, higher level calculus, etc.</p>
<p>For your X and Y, there is no simple predictor. SAT/ACT scores are the first litmus test because everyone takes them, regardless of whether the hs has lots of APs, a few or none. Grades (thus, rank) matter because they show how a kid tackles classes and strives to succeed. Adcoms also look at transcripts, to see what classes were taken. And, they know the rigor of the hs. </p>
<p>I have to add that an adcom takes the proposed major into consideration, relative to the scores, grades, rank. If X wants to major in applied math and got 800 on M, that can be fine. If Y wants the same and got 800’s on CR and W…</p>
<p>In general, #116 in a class of 1000 at a tough hs looks better than #116 out of 500.</p>
<p>Because of reporting in local sources, I know that the information is broken down at least to the individual counties/districts and I believe I also saw some reporting even down to the individual schools, but I do not know how that can be accessed. Perhaps your school board already has it?</p>
<p>The national graduation rate of high school grads who enter college is 53%, leaving 47% with debt, time out of the work force and virtually nothing to show for it.</p>
<p>I think this country needs big investments in training for the trades and a lot more focus on them during the high school years. These are jobs that pay well and most are not only recession resistant, they cannot be out-sourced.</p>
<p>Also, living in here in Texas, I can already see the mandate to track this kind of information with not one dime allocated for it. So, my instinct is to say “no, public schools should not be tracking this.”</p>
<p>I totally agree. My committee is called “College and Career” but so far there is only a focus on careers that require a degree. The son of some folks we know wanted to go to a technical/trade school. Lots of those schools are for profit/advertise on TV, etc. so there is reason to be suspicious about them. They went to the school GC and the GC was no help whatsoever. I understand that the GCs can only focus on what the majority does, but it would be great if our committee could assemble a list of references for folks who don’t want or need a 4 year degree.</p>
<p>Absolutely. The refineries here in our area got tired of having to recruit, so they all chipped in and opened a trade school specifically for refinery work. It’s free! I asked the GC office why there were no posters or notices up about that option and no one had an answer. I provided the information and hope that it will help at least a few students in the future.</p>
<p>Our District does have the ablity to post on-line surveys and send emails to everyone. We could ask for trade school recommendations, then investigate the ones that get a lot of mentions. The GC could easily transmit this info without an endorsement, just like their recommending a specific 4 year school is not an endorsement.</p>
<p>How big is the school? #116 out of 120 means something different from #116 out of 1000. In the former case, the difference between #2 and #116 may be between a 3.9 and 1.3 GPA, while in the latter case, the difference may be between a 3.9 and 3.8 GPA.</p>
<p>Also, I would caution against drawing too many conclusions from a relatively small 160 point SAT difference (53 points per section). Such a difference could be due to differences in SAT test taking skills or even random chance events (e.g. one student may have caught some minor illness on SAT day, or the room temperature may have been more or less suitable for one student versus another).</p>
<p>So what is important? Measuring what has occured after 5-6 years against all kids from a HS or trying to ascertain that the “top performers” continue on and perform in college? In my mind 2 different things. Trying to ascertain if kids are “ready” for college is even tougher. You could have a kid with a lesser GPA and lesser composite test scores that really fails at math and science (required in high school) goes to college as an English major or something else and really soars…too many variables in my mind.</p>
<p>In the ideal world, everyone, but it’s pretty much impossible to track 600 students once they leave the school.</p>
<p>For the purposes of this committee and action items that can be implemented sooner rather than later, it might do to study the general reasons students leave college (I found a study done by the Gates Foundation - I’m sure there are more.) Let’s pretend that the top reasons are lack of study skills, lack of money, partying and roommate issues. The school or PTA or the like could offer training/insight on how to deal with those issues.</p>
<p>One thing that I don’t think most HS students (at “good” schools) know is that a majority of college students do not graduate in 4 years. Once they get to school, they may keep taking a course they are bombing for fear of getting off track and not graduating “on time.” Another HUGE aspect is that merit aid tends to be for 8 semesters…if the student doesn’t graduate in 4 years and the family can’t afford the school, the student could be left just shy of graduation.</p>
<p>“Majority doesn’t grad in 4 years” doesn’t apply to all colleges. Good LACs grad 85-95% in 4 years. </p>
<p>“Lack of study skills” is pretty hard to tackle at a “high performing” high school. You need to make this study work for your demographics- what applies across the country may not apply to your pool of kids. If a segment of your kids suffers, you would need to id that segment and what they need. An A-B kid may not need better study skills.</p>
<p>What exactly do you want to study? Admit chances, success predictors, drop out/lag behind reasons…? Or, trade school options?</p>
<p>No offense intended, but sometimes the first approach to any study can’t accomplish more than bring general attention to a problem and get consensus it IS a problem and needs to be researched further. First-pass, you may accomplish more by studying the higher-level research reports than trying to implement a study of your graduates. What time frame do you have? Between now and Sept makes it hard just to get responses back.</p>
<p>That’s very true. In the Gates Foundation study, one of the top reasons for not completing college was that students had to work so many hours to keep financially afloat. This is probably not a primary issue with our school population.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You’d be surprised. When my son visited Baylor, a prof told my husband that these kids get high grades at all these “good” schools and come to college without a clue how to study.</p>
<p>In high school - even in AP classes- there is usually a “daily work” “homework” or “participation” grade that isn’t a component of college classes. In some classes, a student could get all 100s on participation, ace the “projects” (often little more than crafts) that they do outside of class, pretty much bomb the tests, and get a B. </p>
<p>High schools are under great pressure to pass students - there’s no time or room for a lot of kids to repeat classes. I know that in one AP class my son took, the teacher had a policy that if you came to class and did the homework, she would not fail you. That’s sweet and I’m sure the kids are grateful for that, but with the weighting, a 70 is really an 82, which factors into the GPA as a B.</p>