Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>First and foremost I know this post will be problematic and might rub some folks the wrong way. But the conversation was born out of a phone discussion my son and I had when he was in Dallas doing what he does hoping to win (DI) in the nationals for foresnic.
Long story short he didn't win or place - my son was a national and international champion in TKD and is very competative - reflection, working hard and motivation is part of his make-up. When I called him he was down in the dumps, upset that he hadn't put in more time, chosen a better piece, found a way to make his DI better. But here is the thing, he couldn't have put in more time; if he had there is no way that he could have gotten his monologues ready which would have meant no Suny Purchase. Nor did he have time to change his piece and he goes to public school - true he goes to a good acedemic public school but the forsenic program is good not great. He had five weeks to get serious about his piece to qualify for nationals and he came second in VA for young people who had been working on their pieces for the entire year. He got to Nationals and ran into folks whose schools support forensics with students who where the best in their states and had been working on their pieces all year. Survey says - my son got beaten when he felt given time and better coaching he could have one. Hopefully some of you see where I am going with this -
My son and I traveled for his auditions (he went to one audition with his Mom); he applied to 14 schools by the end he got into all of them and off the BFA programs he got in 2/3 of them. He has been working with professional actors since he was 12 and he is a very good student; however, I think if it weren't for me speaking to actingmom, him reading a whole bunch books on how to prepare for monologues, a monologue class and him giving up a great deal of his senior year to practice - he would have been in big trouble. And truthfully, with his background in acting - if he had had a coach that prepared him just for his monologues I believe he would gotten into everyplace that he applied.
Maybe I am wrong in saying this, maybe there should be a level playing field - but when applying to the best I believe you have to work with someone that can hopefully bring out the best in you. My son currently lives in the second richest county in the country, his high school drama program could NEVER had done that - nor does the person in charge of the program have the time nor an environment were young people take theater seriously. And let's face the fact drama clicks do not a performer make. Again I am not suggesting what I am saying is fair - but very little is - it just seems if a young person wants to be a performer and not talk about performing - they have to work with serious, disciplined people that care for them as artist and human beings and will not just give them a role just because their parents speak louder than everyone else and a good acting coach.
Okay, I have said it - </p>

<p>Peace</p>

2

<p>Not quite sure what you’re trying to say here-- is it that an applicant needs a dedicated coach or professional mentor to be successful when auditioning? Or just those of us who don’t live in rich counties, or haven’t been working pros since we were 12?</p>

<p>Also, where did your son end up going?</p>

3

<p>This seems to be related to a previous frustrated post by wineguy questioning the fairness of hiring an acting coach/audition coach specifically for college auditions. </p>

<p>I’m not exactly sure of the point now either, especially since his son did get into “2/3rds of the BFA programs for which he auditioned” and was offered a prestigious scholarship to one of the best state universities in the country. </p>

<p>This, without hiring a professional acting coach. Maybe he’s just sad for his son because his son didn’t excel in the forensics competition and he feels that having some help in the audition process would have helped his son manage his time as well as do better in both competitions? </p>

<p>This past year we’ve gone through quite a lot, with some people’s children on this board not getting into any BFA programs, which smarts. In the end, does it really matter whether a kid gets into all of the programs for which he or she auditions? Is that so parents can say “My child got into every college they applied to” ? or write down all the acceptances on this board? This seems to be more about bragging rights than the kids. </p>

<p>In the end, our kids can only attend one college. </p>

<p>And as for acting coaches/consultants for college auditions. Well, only what – 20 kids or so are admitted to Carnegie Mellon’s acting and MT programs and there are more than 20 college audition coaches in America. Having a college audition coach is not a guarantee that a child will get in to a top program. </p>

<p>And here’s what’s really funny – even if your child gets into a top program, half the people in the world won’t have any idea that it is a top theater program. Seriously. Tell the average joe your child is going to Suny Purchase for theatre (as, I last checked, wineguy’s son) and they are going to shrug it off anyway because chances are they have no idea that SUNY Purchase has one of the best programs in the U.S. for theater. </p>

<p>I think we can all learn a lesson on acceptance and pride from Emmybet, whose daughter chose a BFA program at a smaller, lesser-known school than the big name school with the great BA program. Again, in the end, a kid can only go to one school – it should be one they choose, where they are happy to be, excited and feel wanted, and, hopefully for the BFA programs, maybe a leg up in the acting world. </p>

<p>Here’s an interesting point of debate related to the topic of college audition coaches. Why are audition coaches acceptable but using monologues that someone has been directed in not? </p>

<p>In sympathy to the parents who have watched their children go through senior year, it is hard to see our children reach for the stars – whether it be applying for an Ivy League school, a top theatre program or competing at a forensics competition – and get rejected. But unfortunately, one of the byproducts of the current trend of “over-parenting” is the over-the-top efforts to shield our kids from disappointment and hurt. How are they going to grow up if they never face adversity? What’s that great line from the movie the Princess Bride? “Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says different is selling something.”</p>

<p>Too cynical, I think, but at least slightly true.</p>

4

<p>OK, I beg to differ on the necessity of a college audition coach. My kids go/went to a mediocre public urban HS with a theatre magnet program (not a nationally known one). In the past 3 years, their graduates were accepted to: Otterbein (2), CCM, OCU (2), Texas State, BU, Evansville, DePaul (2), Emerson and SMU as well as several who picked non audition schools, BA schools and ADMA. Only one person used a specific audition coach (for Texas State BFA in MT). The only training that most of these kids had was their school directors and, in some cases, community theatre. So…It can be done!!! May not be your “tippy top” schools, whatever that means, but it is possible to go to a good BFA program without spending enormous loads of money. (Plus, one kid dropped out, went to Hollywood and is starring in one of this summer’s blockbusters!)</p>

5

<p>Thank you for your brave honesty, wineguy.</p>

<p>And thank you for your kind words, UVa. Believe me, many days of the week I still wonder if D has made the right choice. None of us will know if our kids will be OK until they are there. We all want them to be all right, and we all have second guesses. I’ve been through it all, in my own life, my family, my 2 kids - up and down the ratings scale, up and down the “success” ladder, and I don’t have any answers.</p>

<p>I suppose I don’t want my kid making the “wrong” choice, or having regrets, or being hurt … or do I? She has to live her life. We could have done a LOT more to “package” her for her college admissions. But she knew she could not transform herself that quickly, nor did she want to. A little detail she could have improved on MIGHT have “gotten her in” somewhere else … but what was the point? And once you start that kind of second-guessing, you’re in for a lot of worry and stress.</p>

<p>Yes, I get antsy when I never seem to see Adelphi mentioned as an “agent’s top school they look for” or when someone I respect in theatre hasn’t heard of it (yikes!) or when I can’t name a “famous” actor who went there. Sometimes I assuage my pride by mentioning Jonathan Larson - at least people have heard of RENT, even though being another JL isn’t what my D aspires to. But I know as well as anybody that Jonathon Larson was who he was, and my daughter is who she is, and it isn’t the test scores or the alumni or anything else that will make her college experience rewarding and valuable. It will be HER experience, day to day, just as her life always has been. And I trust her to care, to work hard, and to grow immensely.</p>

<p>OK, so maybe you shouldn’t bring a knife to a gunfight … I’ll say the wussy thing and say how about if you don’t go to a gunfight at all? Go to a collaborative, thought-provoking, supportive and demanding educational environment and make something happen for yourself and for the other people around you. Cherish the relationships, love the great works of literature and history you’ll be spending your time with, and look deep inside yourself every day. Ask the big questions. Feel lucky you’re there. Bring something to the process - give as much as you get.</p>

<p>I have no idea what my D will be able to “achieve” when she finishes school. I want her to have the training that will help her make a contribution, be valued, and value herself and her skills. She and the world will have to work the rest of it out. I hope she will be respectful of others, and I hope they will respect her at least some of the time. I know one thing for sure: she’ll get kicked around a lot, and there will be NOT ONE THING ANY OF US WILL BE ABLE TO DO ABOUT IT.</p>

<p>I hope the kids and parents coming up read wineguy’s post and use it to cherish their successes, forget about their disappointments, and be confident about their priorities and their choices. Find that message in it, and don’t decide instead to second-guess what you know you believe, what you know is important to you, what your real situation and choices are.</p>

<p>To go back to his metaphor: There is no magic bullet in this process, just as there isn’t in any other aspect of life.</p>

6

<p>I’m rereading wineguy’s post and thinking maybe the point is to tell rising seniors that they need to prepare, that they need to knuckle down and work for what they want because they will always be competing against people who may have advantages over them.</p>

7

<p>I think that the auditors know how to evaluate. Alot of them will ask the student to do their monologue on the spot with a completely different interpretation. This happened to my D. The auditor told her how he wanted her to do her monologue again, and gave her a specific situation to place herself in! If the applicant is only good because of the coaching, the auditors will see that when they give them a different direction!</p>

<p>I think the auditors don’t just want to see how “good” the student is now, but how well they respond to direction and their potential to grow with training. They want to have good, responsive students in the classroom.</p>

<p>EmmyBet, I love your attitude!</p>

8

<p>Well, I think the truth is somewhat in the middle. I feel my daughter could have been better prepared than she was, not necessarily in terms of being “groomed,” but in terms of having someone who could say (without being treated as “Moh-um!!”) that it was time to work on this or that piece or skill, time to show a third party the monologue and get some feedback, etc. Seriously, at this age a lot of kids are just not going to take that continual monitoring/nagging, and input, from mom or dad, but I think some of them do need it. If they are not at school that can provide this kind of mentoring (and most schools can’t), then having someone who can do it is probably a good idea, even if they’re not a big deal, “I can get you into CMU” kind of coach.</p>

<p>That being said, such an individual is not that easy to find. We did make a few stabs at it, but nothing really worked out. If I had it to do over again, I would have tried harder, even though my daughter felt it wasn’t necessary. And I trust her judgment a lot, but sometimes you just have to be the parent, and I think this was one of them.</p>

<p>As to the results, she did get into and will be attending one very good school (Tisch), in a studio she likes. But she did feel that two of the other schools she auditioned for might well have been a better fit, and she was disappointed that she didn’t get accepted to either of them. Was everything a long shot anyway? Sure. But I believe that if she’d been better prepared her chances would have improved, albeit nowhere near the point of certainty. And it would have been nice for her to have a choice, especially since she had a strong preference.</p>

<p>Finally, to be clear, we are not obsessing about this. She is very happy to be going to NYU, and we expect her to have a great experience there. I wouldn’t even have brought all this up except for this thread - based on what people have said, I thought it was important to put in my 2 cents.</p>

<p>Best wishes to all.</p>

9

<p>I am not entirely sure what wineguy’s meaning is but I have my own interpretation of the “coaching” debate. </p>

<p>The best advice I ever received on college auditions was from a professor from a college I was denied from. Basically he said college auditions mean nothing. Sure there are some industry professionals will list the schools where the “best” come out from but at the end of the day it is about the individual not the school. Regardless of whether you attend some top tier conservatory or some small state school where the theatre program is just a group of students who get together after class if you have the drive and determination to be an actor you will achieve it somehow. </p>

<p>My question is what really sets these schools apart when you get to the core of it? If you strip away famous alumni and professor’s credits and fancy facilities aren’t many of the philosophies/principles of acting programs very similar? </p>

<p>I did not hire an audition coach.
Could it have been useful? Perhaps.
Would I have been accepted to more programs? Perhaps.
But financially and time-wise it was not the best option for me. I am very happy with the college I will be attending.
In the audition it is just you and the auditor. And top ten lists or coaches mean very little. All the matters is what you have to offer and what they are looking for. And no amount of coaching will change whether or not you were what they were looking for.</p>

10

<p>First and foremost I have to apologize for throwing words on paper like an angry artist I was not very clear.</p>

11

<p>UVaHoo87 I have always found your remarks insightful, truthful and heart felt. I do agree that my son not doing better in the Forensic contest made me a bit sad. But not the fact that he didn’t win. But that he didn’t have time to prepare like he wanted. </p>

<p>The point I was trying to make was that people came to that national competition better prepared, many with private coaches or from schools that focused on helping their students win contest. Does this upset me? No.<br>
Understand, I believe in competition - from spending years in the Marine Corps to being a National Coach in Tae-Kwon-do. I was lucky enough to coach for one of the best TKD teams on the East Coast, the players (fighters), were in very good condition, had excellent training and our Master is considered one of the top 20 coaches in the U.S. (for my VA people I am not talking about Master Patrice) - The truth of the matter was, you could have a terrible gifted young person, who loved TKD, who trained day and day out and if you fought us or one of the other top schools, you had very little chance of winning. It didn’t matter if you were a thug, brain, gifted althelete, white, black, brown what God you prayed to - you were going go loss and in most cases loss badly. And that’s on a regional level not national.
So I must be again, be seemingly bragging about my son? Nope my son made himself into a player through determination and great coaching. That is the point I am trying to get across. What lesson is there to be learned if a kid goes to an audition and knows they are good but is not prepared for the whole process? What honor is there in standing side by side with another young person who has not only been coached on the process but how to make their monologues more effective. Yes, everything should be equal but you are telling me that with the numbers of young people seen at auditions that latent talent jumps out to them?
When a high school kid plays basketball well and believes they has the possibility of playing college ball and hopes among hopes get a scholarship - they goes to several skills camps (sometimes even when they consider themselves superstars before playing summer league hoping that they will catch several coaches eyes. I believe this is where we are at with our kids - my son is an actor, he has been acting since he was five, maybe since he was an infant when he tried to convince me and his Mom that he couldn’t crawl. He has been performing on the stage and working with professional actors since he was 12 and this process worried the heck out of him. I just believe before we tell kids and parents they don’t need an acting coach or somehow make it seem as if it is somehow immoral… Anyway I am saying too much - I very much apperciate all the help we have received on the board over the past couple of years. Without y’all my son would not have done nearly as well. Thank You</p>

12

<p>Thank you for your kind words EmmyBet - I wish all young people the best.
As you worry for your D I worry for my S. I wonder sometimes if I should have pushed science more and tried to brush acting under the rung - he is passionate about both - but he wanted to pursue acting and that is what matters. How will he do? I believe in chance. I also believe in putting yourself in position for possiblities. Then it is up to the universe. What I do know - is that he is a really good person and so whatever he does or does not do I will always stand by him.</p>

13

<p>SDonsc I hear what your saying - I am saying be good and sometimes being coached makes even makes you better</p>

14

<p>Thank you for your insights OneToughMommy</p>

15

<p>Thank you for sharing your experiences sunflowerandsnow - I agree with you that determination and “training” is what count most. But that seems to be the case in the arts and in most fields.</p>

16

<p>Our rural MD high school kids have done quite well without coaches. There aren’t a lot of theater kids, but there are students that have gone to DePaul, NYU, Marymount and UArts and some lesser known regional schools. One kid was home schooled his senior year and started auditiong for movies and tv and has been successful in getting roles on tv. All of the kids who’ve graduated are working in theatre too. Not bad for a high school in the sticks. I think it’s because we had a fantastic drama teacher and program, and lots of local theatres in the area. I think coaching probably does help, but I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary.</p>

17

<p>eh. I know a kid who has never taken an acting lesson in his life and has been in a number of Broadway shows. And got into the top schools…</p>

18

<p>I haven’t posted in a while, but I figured I’d add my two cents to this catharsis of a conversation.</p>

<p>But before I make my point, I have to say that UVa is dead on when saying that this is all rooted in us “modern” parents doing whatever we can to ensure that our kids don’t experience any pain. I wish I had realized sooner how foolish that can be. After all, now that we’ve cried with her over rejections, and shed happy tears over her acceptances, I know that rejection was actually a good thing for our D.</p>

<p>It allowed her to grow up a little, realize that you don’t win every time, and that you can’t ever be successful if you don’t learn something from your failures. (right sunflowerandsnow?) Sorry soccer parents, but giving EVERY kid a trophy can hinder them for life.</p>

<p>The advice we’ve given both of our kids is: if one thing doesn’t work, call the next play. And, until your heart stops beating at a ripe old age, you can ALWAYS call the next play.</p>

<p>Now, as to the main topic: I feel that having your student prepare for his/her audition is critically important. But putting out a lot of dough for a coach doesn’t necessarily ensure that he or she will get accepted into so-called prestigious BFA programs.</p>

<p>I mean, no matter how much training you get, this process is so subjective at times that you can’t be sure of anything. After all, how in the world can you pick the 40 best kids out of 1,000 auditioners after watching them perform for just three minutes? A majority of these kids are good and very well prepared. I guarantee the difference between my daughter’s talent (she’ll attend Hartt), and Wineguy’s son’s talent (he’ll attend SUNY Purchase) is negligible. They are BOTH very talented young actors. I’m sure if they performed a scene together at the local community theatre, people in the audience would swear they were both professionals.</p>

<p>Would a pricey coach have helped my D get into Purchase? I honestly don’t feel it would have been the “clincher.” You don’t need a coach. But what you do need is for your S or D to recognize that prepartion is critical if you’re going to have any chance at all. </p>

<p>So … the best advice I can give is that you should comprehensively research which schools feel like a fit, and then VERY diligently work on your monologues. Read the entire play. Understand your character inside and out, and practice a zillion times in front of your parents. Be prepared to show them the REAL you when they ask questions before or after your performance.</p>

<p>After that, it’s really out of your hands. If you succeed by getting accepted, the reward will be magnificent. If you fail … you can always call the next play.</p>

<p>Best of luck to the parents and students who will soon embark on their own college audition odyssey.</p>

<p>As for the rest of us, who have formed our own little support group here on CC, how about a nice cool drink on the deck tonight, and a toast to … mission accomplished? You’re all very good parents. I wish your S’s and D’s well. Break a leg everyone.</p>

19

<p>Great post, racroce! I couldn’t have said it better (and I didn’t). Best wishes to all.</p>

20

<p>

</p>

<p>Great post racroce! To follow up on what I think is such great advice, not just for college auditions but for all auditions. My D was recently at a professional audition. The audition required a monologue and a 32 bar cut. After she did her monologue, the director told her that he could tell she had really studied the character breakdown and that her monologue showed that. My D of course thanked him but was also a bit puzzled by the statement because she assumes EVERY actor delves into the character as much as they can before going into an audition. So it does matter and they can tell.</p>

<p>To all the members of the class of 2015 heading off this fall, take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way and enjoy your freshman year! To the parents, I raise my glass to you as well!</p>