My son and I recently visited three colleges. My son is eligible for the Alabama Presidential scholarship, and maybe has a 30 percent chance of NMF. The test was really messed up this year. My son only visited Alabama at my insistence, even though I’m not 100 percent gung-ho on 'Bama.
After seeing the dorms, student center and just participating in the tour, my son made the comment, “I feel like Alabama is trying to tell me they want me to come here.”
After Alabama we visited another school in the land of the Yankees. The school is ranked slightly higher than Alabama, and the campus is in my opinion prettier. But the dorms are shared rooms with communal showers. And it seemed like every dorm window on campus had a window air conditioner sticking out of it. This was his first choice from Internet surfing, but after visiting it fell flat.
We also visited a top-10 university, and I have to say we both fell in love. But I just can’t see paying almost a quarter-million for an undergraduate degree and then moving on to graduate school. It just doesn’t work for us.
My son will be taking 12 hours at Ole Miss this summer, and I’m going to encourage him to get a good feel for the school. My guess is that he can get a full ride at Ole Miss, not just free tuition, and I’d love to see him go to Ole Miss. But he’s going to arrive at college with 50-60 hours; Alabama rolls its scholarships over into grad school; Ole Miss doesn’t. And he doesn’t really want to go to school three miles from the 'rents. We’ll see.
Just posting this because I’m sure there are people who wonder whether the investment in student facilities is worth the money. I don’t know, but can report our experience, and in our experience the answer is “yes.”
My daughter and I just visited Alabama this past weekend and were blown away. This was our 11th school that we have looked at. Baja has quickly gone on her list to #1!
My son (who was in the dorm 4 years) really liked having his own room in the suites, and definitely did impact his decision to attend UA. My younger son was lucky enough to stay in the dorms two years, and would have stayed another if he was able. Please be aware that most students will only stay on campus their freshman year, so make sure they understand this when choosing their school. (Off campus housing is VERY nice though, but can be inexpensive to pricey depending how far you choose to live from campus.)
“Just posting this because I’m sure there are people who wonder whether the investment in student facilities is worth the money. I don’t know, but can report our experience, and in our experience the answer is “yes.””
Yes, putting money into dorms and student centers does help attract the 18 year old mentality. Some NY schools apparently took the opposite tactic to the schools the OP visited. Some schools put almost no money into academic resources but build swanky new admission’s buildings and provide student centers filled with things that would appeal to the 18 year old mentality. They may even call themselves “premier” universities. While they might be premier if they were offering summer camp, they are far from premier as a university.
I know of schools that rebuild student centers many times but do nothing to address the academic needs of the students. When schools adopt this mentality, it is simply greed and students pay the price for it. For instance, in one school I know the resources in the academic building are dinosaurs. The audio visual equipment looks to be out of the 1990s and does not work half the time. Apparently each of the audio visual systems are different in each lecture hall so instructors struggle with them if they’d had classes in a different one earlier in the day. There are no seats in the library because the school has nearly doubled its enrollment without considering the availability of resources for all the students it now enrolls. They don’t meet the need for academic advisors or for career advisors that are needed for this large increase in student size. There are long lines at the cafes so students hoping to grab food between classes will have a 20 minute wait. so while the school dorms are spiffy, the admissions building is cool, students will pay the price once they arrive on campus to study.
It’s not camp! Remember that attending class and engaging in academic pursuits will be a major focus for any student entering college. Examine the facilities that will assist that endeavor. The allocation of resources by the university speaks volume about the priorities of the school. My advice is to look else where if the university appears to be spending money on only the resources that are similar to those you’d expect to see in a high end camp. If they skimp on academic resources, they will not provide your child with the supports needed in college even if there is a swank new sports arena.
@lostaccount You make some very good points, but I would point out some information, contra.
First, as to sports arenas, these are generally paid for entirely through athletic revenue. SEC schools get more than $20 million a year just from TV rights; and the people who give to athletic programs are not the type of people who give to athletic programs. Whether this tail-wags-dog is good for higher education in general is another argument, but I think it ends up helping Alabama and a few other schools who learn how to milk athletic success to promote the school in general.
Providing decent dorms costs nothing. If you look at the prices Alabama is charging, they should more than cover the cost of these dorms. A school that forces its students into shared bedrooms and prison-style showers is one, in my opinion, that does not care for its students. Certainly this option should be available for those wanting to save a dollar, but most people need privacy and are willing to pay for it.
Universities in the Deep South have an advantage in providing new facilities for students in that buildings cost a third to half as much or less to build as they do in the Northeast or California, ect. So providing a comfortable home for the students just costs less.
I don’t know if Alabama has the problems you cite with inadequate academic facilities and infrastructure; it’s certainly worthy of investigation. But the school is spending a fortune bringing top students to the school with its presidential and National Merit scholarships, as well as some less merit scholarships. The result is that a third of entering freshmen have an ACT score of 30 or above and 25 percent have a 32 or higher. More than 1,100 students get a tuition-free education though either the Presidential or NM scholarships every year. A published report says Alabama is spending $100 million per year to attract top students. I find being around other really smart students to be far more important than a working slide projector.
@EarlVanDorn amen to your post! Alabama is pretty much the only school out there with the generosity to give so many scholarships so liberally just for merit. You won’t find many other places (if any) where you just need a certain ACT/GPA to get full tuition covered. To me that spoke that the college cares about the fundamentals of college (the cost factor) so that families can relax easier and shift their focus onto the academics. Alabama made me welcome because they were so generous and helpful in the college process. Nowhere else did I feel this and my state schools especially made me feel that bring big coffers or go home…Alabama is definitely a hidden gem that is getting more and more attention each day that it deserves for what it is doing.
Sorry for gushing but I am just thankful each day that I am going to be debt free from college when I was so ready to sign $60,000 of debt for my family for a state school in Colorado.
Hey Earl, this sounds like us. My son is starting Summer College for High School at Ole Miss next week. I think he can get the full ride too, but he will have a bunch of credits and fact that Bama lets you use scholarships for grad school is a big plus.
I have been trying to get him to visit Alabama but he just wants to get to Ole Miss ASAP on the trip there. Maybe we can swing by Bama in August when I pick him up.
The University of Alabama not only has many beautiful dorms (and some very nice student rec facilities), UA has many new / freshly-remodeled state-of-the-art academic buildings / labs. UA is constantly working to improve facilities for the students! When we were there for our first visit 2.5 years ago, we were told by the Admissions Office that the University was opening a new or remodeled campus building every 72 days!! (I don’t think it’s slowed down since then!) Once you visit the campus, it’s easy to see… Very impressive.
@EarlVanDorn, if that other “school in the land of the Yankees” is the one I think it is, there’s a mom who used to post on here whose younger son is headed there this fall. Her older son is a current student at Bama.
I think for NM kids, there are a lot of great options, and they each have something unique to offer. My (non NM) kid was swayed by Bama’s dorms too, but in the end, he didn’t commit early enough to even get into one and moved off campus sophomore year anyway. I’d be more concerned with the buildings and facilities related to your son’s potential majors. Nice dorms are nice, but the “yucky dorms” on most campuses usually promote a strong sense of community.
Curious about that top 20 university you visited. Are you really not eligible for any need-based aid there?
Sounds like my daughter too! She is going to Ole Miss for the Summer College too, but only for the second session. We live in CO and her 2 picks are Alabama and Ole Miss (for their Accounting School which is top in the nation). She’ll qualify for their top scholarships too. We visited both colleges and previously lived in MS so we are familiar with Ole Miss and know a lot of people that go there. It’s a tough choice…I like the Alabama dorms better and probably their Honors College (which only requires 18 credits and no thesis). Honors college at Ole Miss is more demanding which will be difficult if my daughter continues with band. Hopefully she enjoys summer college and comes back feeling good about going there.
@Tschoonover44 The thing you dislike about the Ole Miss honors college is what I consider its greatest strength: it is a true honors college. The kids are given classes with 14 or 16 students, and sometimes they are taught by some unbelievable teachers.
@Wien2NC My son isn’t in the Summer College program at Ole Miss, but he will be taking 12 hours. Since we live in town, he wasn’t willing to have himself chained to the campus for a month.
@LucieTheLakie I had told my son that he would be applying to Alabama no matter what, and that we would have our housing application in one minute after opening, just to prevent what happened to your son. Now that Alabama is seriously on his radar we are absolutely going to do this.
After our visit to Alabama we visited Miami, and on the spur of the moment, Chicago. Miami was his number one choice before visited, but it just didn’t work. My wife quoted him as saying, “The people aren’t very attractive and they don’t take care of their cars.” I really didn’t observe how people were taking care of their cars, but apparently my son views not taking care of one as equal to beating one’s horses.
Our third college was Chicago, and we both loved it. If money were not a factor, that is where my son would like to be. They do have some merit aid, but it is still expensive, and I do not believe we would qualify for any sort of need-based aid. I’m the beneficiary of a discretionary trust, which is certainly a lucky thing, but it also limits the amount of aid we can receive; plus I have a little money of my own. When my dad funded the trust and did some other estate planning he forgot that he had prepared a codicil to his will establishing an educational trust for my kids, and so that went out the window. Such is life.
Dorms played a big role in my older son, a NM kid, selecting Alabama. He loved the idea of having his own room and sharing a bath with one roommate. He could close the door if he needed to study quietly or just wanted some alone time. When he got sick, he could keep his germs to himself. His thinking on college dorms later influenced his younger brother’s decision to go to UAH. Again, he would have his own bedroom.
My younger son did tour Ole Miss, and he really liked it. Got into the honors college, too.
@EarlVanDorn, yes, I get the challenge with Chicago then. If your son is looking for that type of “life of the mind” experience, I can see the appeal of Ole Miss’s honors college over UA’s. UA does have a couple of elite programs (Computer-Based Honors and University Fellows Experience), so he should definitely look into both. The students in those are treated like rock stars and receive all kinds of perks and accolades. And, of course, The Blount Undergraduate Initiative should be looked at for a student interested in a true liberal arts education.
Re the dorm thing, smart move on your part. My son really didn’t want to put a deposit on a school he didn’t expect to attend, even to hedge his bets, and of course was SOL when it came time for room assignments. But it all worked out for the best. He ended up living in Blount Hall and having a wonderful experience. Even though he’s studying mechanical engineering, he still regularly attends Blount events with the many friends he made in the dorm and program. Coming from a rigorous Quaker school in the Northeast, he found his “tribe” among those students.
Just to weigh in on some several different comments made above…
First, attending a summer ‘camp’ or any academic program at a university during a summer is an excellent way to try the university on for size. Altho there will not be many students there, and the atmosphere will be different, 18-yr-olds CAN get a great feel for whether they can see themselves there for 4+ years or not. I highly recommend summer programs to try out the school. If you can do so before senior year, you’re ahead in the decision process.
Second, I can agree that placing (often) a $100,000 college decision solely in the hands (or mind) of an 18-yr-old is very scary…but the kid does need to feel comfortable with their schooling decision, and that, unfortunately, does come down to things like dorms, dining halls, rec centers, and fusball tables, or whatever strikes their fancy. Dean Karr and others have mentioned in their speeches to prospective families that often a college decision will be made within the first 15-20 minutes of stepping onto campus - REGARDLESS of any subsequent academic meeting, presentation, tour, etc. Kids just ‘know’ whether UA can become home or not within a very short amount of time. Seeing nice dorms after that initial feel-good impression only cements their original gut-feel for the place.
Lastly, and more importantly, as some have subsequently mentioned, UA does not, in my opinion, spend its money on the frills at the expense of the education and academics. There are many funds to go around, and one does not short-change the other. To check this out, prospective students need to have in-depth tours, including looking at libraries and computer labs, and anything else they think they might utilise while attending. Could the Aero computer lab use some additional funds to upgrade itself? Certainly. Did that poor facility stop my son from graduating in four years? Nope.
Still trying to figure out why you think this is not available at Alabama. Here is a partial listing of the honors courses being offered this coming fall:
If you wander around the honors college website on your own, you should be able to find listings of some of the other seminars being offered. All have limited enrollment, and, although I don’t know all the instructors, those I am familiar with have extraordinary reputations. An honors student doesn’t need to be in CBH or Fellows to have an amazing experience at Alabama.
@dodgersmom Are the Alabama honors classes small in size? At Ole Miss they are generally limited to 12 or 14 students, while the same class for the general student population might have 60 or more.
The main differences between the 2 honors colleges are:
Ole Miss - you need to take 29 honors credits which includes credits for the thesis that you need to write. You have to maintain a 3.5 GPA and do community service every semester. The classes are small 14-16.
Alabama - you need to take 18 honors credits and you do not have a thesis to write. You have to maintain a 3.3 GPA
With respect to class size of honors courses, the University Honors seminars are small. For the most part they’re limited to 15 students, although my daughter took one that had 30 students (and she said the larger size did not in any way detract from the course, which was one of her favorites at UA). Departmental honors classes are different, though. Some might be very small, most are smaller than the regular class, but occasionally that won’t be the case. The semester my daughter took accounting, her regular accounting course was smaller than the corresponding honors course, which had about 100 students. On the other hand, the honors math classes she looked at were probably half the size of the corresponding regular class.