<p>I'm thinking about double majoring in business and maybe engineering. (I know it's not called double major by Cal standard because business and engineering are within two different schools, they got a long name for it)
Does anyone know how to apply for double major? I know getting into the school of letter and science is much easier than getting into engineering school, so should I wait until I get in to L&S and then figure out a way to do double major?</p>
<p>Transferring into EECS from L&S seems to be harder than applying into EECS as a freshman. So, I would suggest that you should apply as an Engineering major, and then petition to double major later and apply into Haas after you fulfill the requirements. I hope you can do this, because I'm not too sure. If you can, I think this would be the way to go.</p>
<p>Hm...people say that transferring between colleges is really tough in Berkeley</p>
<p>Thank you Lyrical,
I know for sure Berkeley supports double major. The thing is, it's much harder to get to EECS than L&S, right. I think I'll be fine getting into L&S, but I'm afraid if I apply for EECS, I won't get into Berkeley at all. And going to Berkeley is very important for me. </p>
<p>I hate how Berkeley doesn't offer a second choice back-up major as Davis and other UCs does. But I guess that's what makes it hard.</p>
<p>Does anyone know if there is a box to check or something on the application form to apply for double major?</p>
<p>Yes tchaikovsky, it is hard to transfer, but it's also hard to get into Berkeley. so I'm thinking getting accepted L&S is better than getting rejected by EECS. L&S in Berkeley is Better than Engineering in Davis, right?</p>
<p>Yeah, I think you're making the right choice</p>
<p>If you want to do engineering, perhaps getting into Davis engineering, any UC engineering, is better than not getting into Berkeley engineering. Most majors, when you apply, aren't going to be a big factor in your application. Certain ones do, such as engineering, and if you demonstrate ecs in something which you plan on doing as a major, it's probably taken into acco****. Yeah, it's significantly harder to get into CoE than L and S, but like quickflood said, it isn't easy getting in, period. It's not as tough as the toughest, but it's fairly hard.</p>
<p>Berkeley allows and supports double majors, sure. Transferring from college to college can be tough, depending on the circumstances.</p>
<p>I'm wondering if I should have done L&S. I have distinctive ecs (research in mechE and neuropsych), but low SATs around the high 1900s and pretty good SATIIs in 750 and up. I guess I have a bit of an advantage, though, since I'm instate.</p>
<p>It's just about impossible to double-major in EECS and Business.</p>
<p>EECS graduation requirements:
4 semesters of math: Math 1A<em>, 1B</em>, 53, 54
2 semesters of physics: Phys 7A<em>, 7B
1 additional semester of natural science: Bio 1A</em>, Chem 1A<em>, Phys 7C
1 semester of discrete math/stats: Math 55 OR CS70 OR Stat 25
2 semesters of English: English R1A</em>, English R1B
4 semesters of other Humanities<em>: 2 can be waived by AP credit
3 semesters of lower-div computer science: CS 61A, CS 61B</em>, CS 61C
2 semesters of lower-div EE: EE 20, EE 40
1 semester of technical communication: E 190
5 semesters of upper-div EE and/or CS courses</p>
<ul>
<li>= Can be waived by AP credit</li>
</ul>
<p>It's also worth noting that when you get to upper-div technical courses, you do NOT want to take more than two of them in the same semester. The workload is crushing.</p>
<p>*Pre-business requirements<a href="need%20to%20complete%20in%20first%20two%20years%20to%20apply%20to%20the%20undergrad.%20business%20major">/b</a>:
Bus Adm 10
Math 1A OR 1B* OR 16A* OR 16B* (overlap)
Econ 1* OR 2
Stat 21 (not satisfiable for EECS)
Computer Science (any course) (overlap)
College Writing/Lit
English R1A<em>, R1B</em> (overlap)
2</a> arts/humanities courses
1 biological science course
2 international studies courses
1 physical science course (overlaps with EECS physics req)
3 social/behavioral science courses
Foreign language (second-year proficiency)*</p>
<ul>
<li>= Can be waived by AP credit</li>
</ul>
<p>**Business graduation requirements<a href="after%20admission;%20to%20be%20completed%20in%20years%203-4">/b</a>
8 semesters of upper-div business administration
4 semesters of non-business upper division courses</p>
<p>So, as you can see, it's just about impossible to double major. It might be doable if there aren't so many bull$hit requirements for pre-bus (excuse the language, but I fail to see how many of them are necessary except to weed out applicants who cannot maintain a high GPA across diverse fields of study). Note that EECS prereqs (unsurprisingly) lean towards the maths and science, whereas the business prereqs are more humanities-based. Therefore, there is very little overlap; to fulfill even the prereqs for both majors your four years are pretty much gone. If you have lots and lots of AP credit, there are still restrictions on the number of courses you can waive. </p>
<p>It's not possible to minor in business, but it is to minor in EECS. However, to complete the requirements for an EECS minor you'll need to take three (?) upper-div EECS courses, which require the math/science prereqs. Unlike the business breadth requirements, without the technical background for EECS you simply CANNOT do it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's just about impossible to double-major in EECS and Business.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>One guy did it recently.</p>
<p>Of course, he was Berkeley's first Rhodes Scholar in 14 years. So, yes, I agree that if you're really really good, you can pull off this double-major.</p>
<p>is that guy the only one? wow, I didn't realize how hard it would be.
I do have lots of AP credits, but I guess it's not possible if there's only one guy that pulled it off. maybe I'll do something easier like double major in business + math, which is also in L&S, or could I do Business + Architecture. I just don't feel secure with only one major, what if I really suck at it? if I doulbe major, at least, I can choose which career path I take...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I just don't feel secure with only one major, what if I really suck at it?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you start taking classes in one major and you find out that you suck at it, then I would recommend changing majors if you can. Of course, if you're in an engineering major, then you may find that to be difficult. Engineers who went to switch to an L&S major have to apply to switch to L&S (via intra-campus transfer) and even within the CoE, switching engineering majors requires that you apply to switch to the new engineering major. If you don't have good grades, you won't be allowed to switch. If you suck at your major, you are probably getting pretty bad grades, which may prevent you from switching. </p>
<p>Ironic, isn't it? What that basically means is that only the guys who are performing well in an engineering major can switch out of it, but of course if you are doing well in it, why would you want to switch out? It is precisely those people who are doing poorly in the major and hence want to switch out who are the ones who are forced to stay. </p>
<p>
[quote]
if I doulbe major, at least, I can choose which career path I take...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Keep in mind that you're not necessarily choosing a career path. The vast majority of people end up taking jobs in things that are at best only tangentially related to their undergraduate major. Ask yourself - of all the people in the world majoring in History, how many of them actually become professional historians? How many people who major in poli-sci actually become political scientists? Even the highly pre-professional degrees often times have plenty of students who end up doing other things. For example, I know a number of people with Berkeley chemical engineering degrees who graduated a long time ago and to this day have still never worked a day in their lives as chemical engineers. Instead, they've been working as management consultants or investment bankers. I know at MIT, in the EECS department, which is widely regarded as one of the most respected departments at MIT, a full 25% of graduating students will take jobs not in engineering, but in consulting or banking. I suspect plenty more of those MIT EECS students wanted to get into consulting/banking, but didn't get a offer, or at least, not one that was good enough to beat whatever engineering offer (or graduate school offer) that they had. Hence, the true percentage of students who wanted to get into consulting/banking (whether they got in or not) I'm guessing is probably more like 50%. </p>
<p>The point is, your major does not utterly dictate your career path. It may make certain paths easier to get into, but you still have significant freedom to switch around. Miss Ayla Vain, who graduated from EECS at MIT became a professional dancer and cheerleader, including a stint as a professional cheerleader for the San Francisco 49ers (one of the San Francisco Gold Rush Girls). </p>
<p>"Ayla Vain 99 (electrical engineering and computer science) is a San Francisco 49ers cheerleader.</p>
<p>I guess I never knew that one would have so much freedom in careers that are not within one's major. I was thinking about doing business, but I'm afraid that I would fail, so I was thinking about using engineering as a back-up plan to a business career, because science doesn't seem to be hard for me. But I guess I'll just apply to L&S next year, since so many people want to be investment bankers.
did I mention I'm a junior? well, I am, I have plenty of time to decide.
one comment about the history major: my history teacher graduated from Berkeley; I don't know which major was he in, but it's just sad to see Berkeley graduates working as teachers w/ low pay. maybe he enjoys to be a teacher, but still, is it a little wasteful to go to Berkeley and end up teaching high school? I don't want sound so materialistic, but you know what I mean.</p>
<p>thank you for your advices, everyone, especially, sakky and student</p>
<p>you can minor in business???</p>
<p>"you can minor in business???"</p>
<p>No, you can not. Was I not clear enough?</p>
<p>
[quote]
one comment about the history major: my history teacher graduated from Berkeley; I don't know which major was he in, but it's just sad to see Berkeley graduates working as teachers w/ low pay. maybe he enjoys to be a teacher, but still, is it a little wasteful to go to Berkeley and end up teaching high school? I don't want sound so materialistic, but you know what I mean.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ouch ouch ouch - looking down on somebody for becoming a teacher because he has a Berkeley degree. I personally think that teachers in California are getting a FANTASTIC deal, relative to what many other college graduates get. </p>
<p>Perhaps a little perspective is needed. A Berkeley degree is no guarantee of a good salary. Far from it, in fact. Plenty of Berkeley graduates end up with quite mediocre salaries. Check out the following link.</p>
<p>Contrast that with how teachers are. I believe the starting salary for teachers in California is somewhere in the mid 30k's. That's higher than what a lot of Berkeley liberal arts grads make. Not only that, but teachers work a lot less than most people do. Teachers make that salary while getting the ENTIRE summer off. I don't know too many jobs that will give you the whole summer off. Furthermore, once you've been working as teacher in California for 2 years, you get tenure, which makes you almost impossible to fire. Very few other people in the world get any sort of tenure, which means that they're always operating under the sword of Damocles for being laid off for any reason, or no reason. California is an at-will state, which means that a private employer can fire you at any time for no reason at all except for racial/ethnic/gender discrimination. But other than that, your boss can come up to you any time and tell you that you're fired, effective immediately, even if you're the best employee in the company. However, firing a tenured teacher in California is basically impossible, which means that as a tenured teacher, you know that as long as you do the bare minimum, you are going to have a job. Very few other people know that they can do the bare minimum and know they will still have a job.</p>
<p>The point is, I think that California teachers have it pretty good, relative to a lot of other people. I agree that teaching can be a stressful job where you feel like you're not getting anything accomplished. But hey, a lot of other jobs are like that too - and they don't even pay as well, get the summer off, or get tenure. </p>
<p>I think if you really want to feel sad for some people, don't feel sorry for your high school teacher. Take a gander at those Berkeley English graduates. Median starting salary of $30k, which means half of them are getting LESS than $30k. And they're not even getting the summer off or getting a shot at tenure. Or how about those Berkeley Development Studies students who get a median of $25k.</p>
<p>Those are reported stats. For Development Studies, only 25% of graduates reported back to the University about their salaries, etc. 41.5% of English graduates decided to respond.</p>
<p>Not to mention for the salaries, those are reported salaries. Only 8 (out of 16 who responded) persons who graduated with a Development Studies degree reported their salary.</p>
<p>A few things:</p>
<p>Sakky, perhaps someone would want to leave engineering if they realize it isn't for them, even if they're doing well. Yeah, I know, shocking, but possible.</p>
<p>Getting a job as a teacher in even the only somewhat desirable CA school districts can be quite tough. You need luck and timing, and the person hiring to like you more than everyone else. Yes, there are many advantages to the job, but getting it somplace where you want to be can be quite tough. I think many substitute teachers find this out the hard way.</p>
<p>while you have a point, eiffelguy87, we can only go on the information we have. It's fairly safe to assume that the other 8 developmental studies guys aren't making 100k each, although you're right in that we can't take the numbers as all the information- we have to take them as they are, our best indication.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Those are reported stats. For Development Studies, only 25% of graduates reported back to the University about their salaries, etc. 41.5% of English graduates decided to respond.</p>
<p>Not to mention for the salaries, those are reported salaries. Only 8 (out of 16 who responded) persons who graduated with a Development Studies degree reported their salary.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sure, these are reported salaries. However, I think they're a pretty good proxy for what the 'true' salaries are. Heck, if anything, the reported salaries are probably actually HIGHER than what the true salaries are. After all, if you get a good salary offer, I would imagine that you would be more likely to report it than if you get a bad offer. I don't think too many people with bad jobs and bad offers are champing at the bit to report them. </p>
<p>In any case, I would like to hear of a convincing case for why the reported salaries would actually be lower than the true salaries. If anything, I would say that it's the opposite. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Sakky, perhaps someone would want to leave engineering if they realize it isn't for them, even if they're doing well. Yeah, I know, shocking, but possible.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, sure, just like some rare people do that. But I think we can all agree that the people who tend to want the leave the most are the people who are doing poorly. I can virtually guarantee you that almost everybody who is getting less than a 2.0 in engineering probably wants out. But the new rules at Berkeley make that difficult. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Getting a job as a teacher in even the only somewhat desirable CA school districts can be quite tough. You need luck and timing, and the person hiring to like you more than everyone else. Yes, there are many advantages to the job, but getting it somplace where you want to be can be quite tough. I think many substitute teachers find this out the hard way.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hey, getting a job in a nice place is difficult in any field. It's not like it's a cakewalk for a new grad with a History degree to find a decent job in Malibu or Rancho Palos Verdes.</p>