I’m an incredibly driven senior in high school (bet you’re done with hearing that). I’ve always had the dream of going to either University of Pennsylvania or UC-Berkeley for Conceptual Astrophysics. So the dilemma is this: I’ve had the plan to early decision to University of Pennsylvania for awhile now because it has been my dream school for as long as I can remember, and I know I’m in love with the university.
However, my parents have recently told me that they are willing to pay 30k per year for my college. And, while I understand that they need money for retirement, etc., they are incredibly rich but are not willing to pay for my education. So if I went out of state to my dream schools, I would need to take out above 150k in debt JUST FOR UNDERGRAD. I also aspire to get my Ph.D.
Essentially, I’m stuck between going to my dream schools where I feel like I can truly grow as an individual (UPenn, UCB) or to my instate university (University of Arizona) and double-major in both Astronomy and Physics because they don’t have a specified astrophysics program. My parents afterwards would then share the costs of my Ph.D. program with me. Frankly, I have no idea what to do because I’m completely unaware if it would be possible for me to go get any financial aid whatsoever.
The UC’s are funded by California taxpayers so, financial aid in scholarships and grants are dedicated to instate residents.
OOS students get little to no financial aid. If your parents are unwilling to pay OOS fees of $55K per year for Berkeley, then finding a reasonably priced school would make sense.
Arizona is very strong in astrophysics, a top 15 program at the graduate level. I think you would be very prepared for graduate school if you worked hard and did well there. The Honors College would likely be of some interest to you.
For financial aid, go to each school’s web site and search for the net price calculator. But if your parents really are “incredibly rich”, then you probably won’t get any financial aid.
But no, it is not worth going into $150,000 debt for undergraduate, particularly when Arizona is a perfectly respectable school for physics and astronomy.
PhD programs worth attending should be fully funded, so do not worry about the cost of that.
My ds is a kid who physics and math are simply the air that he breathes. When he was a sr in high school, he had just come home from SSP that summer and was dual enrolled in physics and math at the local university. He assisted in UG research at that university. (They don’t have a grad physics program, so he was working directly with a prof.)
He would have jumped at the chance to attend Arizona. He attended astronomy camp there and spent the weeks at Kitt Peak. (New MexicoTech is another place he would have been happy to attend.) Unfortunately for him, his parents’ budget is a fraction of your parents, and it severely limited his options. His option narrowed to free when he was awarded scholarships equivalent to full-ride (not an opportunity our family could afford for him to not take.) But, as a college sophomore (by yrs, not class hours), he sees nothing about his situation as unfortunate and is loving every single minute of his UG experience.
I think he has decided that theoretical/particle physics is also a love (though his brain is definitely focused somewhere out in the cosmos.) I am not sure what he is planning for his future (honestly, I stopped understanding 90% of what he was talking about when he was in 8th grade. )
Anyway, he is not concerned about attending a lower ranked school. He knows that other students have gone on to top grad programs around the country. He has embraced every opportunity the university and dept offers and absolutely loves his school. He spent 2nd semester of his freshman yr working with a prof on radon research (not his favorite, but as a freshman, he was happy to be actively involved) and then this past summer he got a UG research position on a neutrino project. He is continuing that research this semester and spends hours every week coding. (Do you enjoy programming? I have lost track of how many languages he uses, but I know fortran, Python, C++, and whatever he is using for the neutrino project are all languages he has had to not just learn, but actively use.)
The neutrino project has taught him a tremendous amt. His mentoring prof meets with him weekly and he has very specific goals he needs to accomplish for that prof. Which is really the point of my responding. Learning is not confined to your classroom experience. What opportunities outside of the classroom exist? What will you be able to achieve outside of your course sequence? Those experiences are going to help shape and define your UG experience. They will help you fine tune your long-term goals. When ds was applying to colleges, one top university told ds that he already had more research experience than most of their UGs bc their focus is on their grad students and UGs work for the grads, not directly with the profs. He was also told getting involved in research as a freshman was next to impossible. Ds is a doer. He would not be happy simply attending class. He wants to be in the thick of things and actively participating wherever he can be. Bc he can and is, he is in a very happy place.
@Ynotgo Thanks for the comment! I haven’t paid attention to anything other than my children this morning. I had to google to find out your reference. How cool! I wonder if ds has heard.
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So if I went out of state to my dream schools, I would need to take out above 150k in debt JUST FOR UNDERGRAD. I also aspire to get my Ph.D.
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You won’t be allowed to borrow that much unless your parents agree to cosign…and that would be CRAZY…most parents won’t cosign any loans, much less a large amount.
What are your stats? If they’re high enough, you can get merit at some other schools, if you want to go OOS.
BTW…what does “incredibly rich” mean to you? Does that mean that they have several millions saved and 7 figure incomes?
Students can’t borrow 150K, and I truly hope your parents wouldn’t make such an awful decision! They’d never be able to pay that back, or retire. That’s not fair to them.
U of Arizona isn’t a bad school for astrophysics, I’d chose to attend there.
If your parents are saving to contribute to your grad school, they shouldn’t need to. Your studies should be funded for your PhD in your area of interest. You might at least ask if that is what they are thinking.
University of Arizona’s PhD Astronomy program is one of the best in the world (easily top 15 in the USA). In fact, it is much, much better than Penn, which is relatively weak in astronomy & astrophysics. If you did well at Arizona and participate in research as an undergraduate, you will be able to go to the best PhD programs out there. Arizona is that respected in astronomy & astrophysics.
There is no difference between “astronomy” and “astrophysics”… historically, “astronomy” used to refer more to observations with telescopes, whereas “astrophysics” was more theoretically focused… but these distinctions are pretty much out of date. No one in the field would make any sort of distinction between the two anymore.
If you want to get a PhD and do research as a professor or at a scientific lab or org in the U.S., you won’t make enough money to repay $150,000 in debt.
It’s a bad idea. And, as has been pointed out, Arizona is actually excellent for what you want to do.
Any PHD worth doing will be funded (typically, it means you get full tuition + a stipend to help pay for your rent/food.)
So, rather than dividing costs between undergrad and grad, your parents could invest into undergrad only. Talk to them and see if they’re willing to pay 50K/year (if they intended on paying 30K for undergrad + PHD, it means 240K set aside for your studies?)
Beside Penn, good schools for Physics include Haverford (need only), Harvey Mudd (need), CalTech, and Lawrence (merit).
UArizona and ASU (with Barrett) are strong in your field of interest and you’d likely qualify for their Honors College so you’re lucky to be living in AZ. Look into Lawrence: would you be more interested in this college than in UAZ?
@MYOS1634 Lawrence is not strong in physics… they only have 4 full-time professors (and a number of retired professors and visiting professors). There class schedule in physics is incredibly limited. Not counting the first year intro sequence, they generally offer only 2 upper division courses per term.
The OP is interested in astronomy & astrophysics. Lawrence offers 1 astronomy course for non-majors, and only 1 “topics in astrophysics” course that isn’t even regularly offered.
2courses per term is as much as a major could wish to take, and they’re a top10 producer of Physics PHD s. I don’t know for astrophysics (offerings do seem limited ) but I know that among LACs that offer merit scholarships they’re very strong in that subject (and known for it ) and their R1 program is well respected.
I understand you must come from the perspective of a research university that probably has 20,000 undergraduates or more and thus a matching number of classes and professors, but keep in mind that course offerings and faculty are relative to the college’s size . When students take 4 classes per semester and as juniors and seniors have at least one gen ed and one major-related class, that leaves one class in physics and one research course in physics.
Whether this college is an appropriate choice depends on whether OP seeks a LAC/smaller private environment , or would prefer attending his state’s flagship. That’s why I asked that last question regarding the solution he prefers. I’m betting on UAZ but it’s always good to have a choice and not feel “trapped” into a decision.
Go to Arizona for undergrad. That’s an awesome school for anything astronomy-related. There’s no way Penn or Berkeley are worth the extra cost for an undergraduate degree.
You’re going to have to go to graduate school to make a career out of astronomy/astrophysics, so wait until then to decide whether to leave the state.
I don’t know how well it’s ranked, but Arizona State has some pretty famous cosmologists there.
ASU itself is nothing to write home about (it’s very large and overcrowded, with lower-achievement students), BUT astronomy is excellent and, most of all, the Barrett Honors College is among the top 10 in the entire country. Barrett ensures you’ll have an excellent experience academically&socially speaking, and won’t have to deal with the C+ doofus who enrolls at ASU for its party reputation. You’ll even have your separate, 9-acre mini campus of hotel-level residences and restaurant-quality dining hall (may make it hard to adjust to dingy first apartment living after you graduate…).
ASU itself is less good than UAZ, but the Honors COllege at ASU is much better than the Honors College at UAZ. You could apply to both and decide once you’ve been admitted.
The C+ doofuses probably won’t be in the same classes anyway, Barrett or not (they will probably be starting in remedial courses that the OP will not need). In later years, they will likely have turned around in their studiousness and become good students, dropped/flunked out, or hidden themselves in whatever gut courses/majors there are.
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