Drinking age of 21 doesn't work

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>This is an entirely different argument of course, but this is a load of crap on the HR department’s part - for all legal intents and purposes, an expunged conviction never happened, and you can legally answer no to the question “have you been convicted”. But this wording is trying to get you to reveal it anyway.</p>

<h2>What about the situations where someone was convicted but later proven to be completely innocent (e.g. a miscarriage of justice)? Why should such a person have to ever reveal the conviction, under any circumstances? ~ Icarus</h2>

<p>Well, you always have the option of not applying for the job, so they aren’t forcing you to reveal anything. </p>

<p>Now, of course, these are extreme examples and I’d wager most HR companies don’t use scrutinize an applicants background that thoroughly. However, any position that requires a security clearance or public trust (Law Enforcement) will certainly be held to this level.</p>

<p>A company is completely justified to ask applicants these questions, regardless if you think it’s fair or not. Personally, if I was hiring an employee that would be responsible for money transactions, I would want to know if they had a previous criminal offense for theft, expunged or otherwise.</p>

<p>This varies greatly from state to state, so please take this into account, but generally speaking it is rather easy to locate an expunged record, but it’s often sealed (same with juvenile offenses) and the actual offense isn’t available. It only says that there is an offense, but no further details. So technically, the offense is “wiped out”, but anyone with a brain can figure out that something fishy is going on. That in itself could potentially be enough for a company to “go in another direction”, so it’s best to be honest from the get-go.</p>

<p>Unless there is something major in a person background, I wouldn’t get to jumpy. Things like Underage Drinking and DUI’s are rarely deal breakers, unless the applicant tries to lie about their history.</p>

<p>I have an Underage Drinking charge from when I was 16 and it’s never been an issue (the judge threw me a bone and just let me off with a warning and a lecture), including law enforcement positions and security clearances. Since the offense happened prior to being 18 and was handled at the District Magistrate level, the record is virtually impossible to locate without have detailed knowledge of the incident. You’d have to do an in person search at the actual magistrates office which held my case, so if a company was just doing a standard background investigation they would never in a 1,000 years find it, unless they paid an investigator to do a search at every magistrate in 3 counties, which would cost thousands of dollars. Regardless, I always list it on my applications if the language requires me to, which is rare.</p>

<p>Most will just ask if you’ve been convicted of a felony, and perhaps misdemeanors related to your duties (so if you are driving company vehicles, a traffic record/DUI perhaps).</p>

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<p>"So tiff, you’re perfectly fine with not being able to move out on your own, requiring that colleges get permission to take you out of state from your parents, have them jointly listed on all accounts, etc for another 3 years after high school?</p>

<p>Because I, for one, am most definitely not. I haven’t really had any parental support since I was about 16 and I had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get things as simple as getting a credit card until my 18th birthday. I am 19 now and could not imagine being legally still under my parents’ thumbs. Neither could they. I mean, don’t get me wrong, my parents and I have a great relationship, we just aren’t really around each other enough to make them do the things that you NEED an “adult” for."</p>

<p>How did you get that out of what I said? Jesus, someone’s angry. If adulthood means the point at which you can make fully informed, reasoned and rational decisions, it should be at the point when the reasoning and decision making parts of your brain are fully developed. My point is if the argument for a higher drinking age is that 21 is the point when we can make good decisions, then why not make that the age of adulthood?</p>

<p>BEB:</p>

<p>I am not saying we should change it to 21 because of alcohol. I’ve been going to bars for a while, I can drink anytime and anywhere I want, so I really don’t care what the drinking age is. Any revisions will not effect me. I am saying if we want to make policies based on when decision making parts of our brain are fully developed, that should be the age of adulthood. There shouldn’t be different ages for adult decisions. For example, in some states the legal age to gamble is 21, so the 21 age is not just involved for alcohol. My other point is people do a lot of stupid **** in college, and it would help out a lot of people if things such as 4 underages, DUIs, assualts, public disturbance, vandalism etc; Basically, it is pretty obvious young people do a lot of stupid things an adult would not make. Adolescence continues into the early 20s. That would be one of the many reasons people settle down after college, combined with the exhaustion of binge drinking a couple of nights a week. Like I said, lowering the drinking age won’t benefit me, but I actually would benefit if the age of adulthood was 21. You can still do anything you would normally be able to do with parental consent. You could still get emancipated. I think people continue to mature throughout their twenties, and I hardly think people are capable of making fully informed decisions at 18. I see plenty of people at 18 who are completely supported by their parents in every way. Heck, I still needed my parents to co sign my lease and I’m an adult. I believe the reason why the death penalty for minors is unconstitutional is due to the fact that the brain is still developing, and the pyschiatry department agrees that decision making is still maturing into the 20s. It’s a fact.</p>

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<p>^ Who said anything about being angry?</p>

<p>Raising the age of adulthood from 18 to 21 would, in fact, delay those things- legal contracts, etc- for another 3 years. Therefore, we would need to be dependent on our parents for another three years. 21 is just another arbitrary number. We are not fully developed at that age either. By that logic, we should really never reach adulthood since we always have developing brains and reasoning abilities.</p>

<p>Please, tell me how anything I said was untruthful or “angry”.</p>

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<p>You’re tone is consistently hostile. When people accuse you of taking something personal or being generally angry, you start to use a more conciliatory tone and deny any implied hostility or belligerent tone. Capitalizing words for emphasis and ranting about how you, personally, would be affected by a policy, and ranting some more, is using a hostile and angry tone. </p>

<p>“Raising the age of adulthood from 18 to 21 would, in fact, delay those things- legal contracts, etc- for another 3 years. Therefore, we would need to be dependent on our parents for another three years. 21 is just another arbitrary number. We are not fully developed at that age either. By that logic, we should really never reach adulthood since we always have developing brains and reasoning abilities.”</p>

<p>My life would not have been any more complicated if I were not legally considered an adult. In fact, people in their mid 20s still need parents to sign mortgages and such when they buy a house. Most 21 year olds are still 100% supported by their parents, I would say 75%. Most people my age still have their parents pay for insurance, cell phones, tuition, room, food, gas and other expenses. Raising the age would result in limited complications, and little added complexity to college life. It wouldn’t be a big deal for most Americans, and if anything, it would help those who get kicked out when they are 18, and keep people on health insurance policies even if they don’t go to school. It would help a lot more people than it would hurt. I don’t care one way or the other, but I hardly think 18 is the peak of maturity or a point where most people can make good decisions.</p>

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<p>If you take my tone as hostile, then you have misunderstood me. </p>

<p>I’m not entirely sure how you can infer a tone from internet typing. My capital letters were for emphasis. They were on the word “need” for emphasis. Not hostility. Perhaps you are a bit oversensitive? You have continually claimed me to be, but I have yet to take offense to your words nor have I been particularly affected by them.
Ah well. </p>

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<p>Well that’s all fine and good for you, and me for that matter, but the truth of the matter is- 18 year olds need to be legal adults. It would be very difficult for most college students to be nonadults in college where they can’t even do simple things without parental consent. Non-adults are minors and think about all the things that minors can’t legally do. They can’t work full hours. They can’t drive past midnight in many states. They can’t come and go from the country. They can’t sign legal documents. The list goes on.</p>

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<p>^ Cat fight.</p>

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<p>^ Not in the least. At least not on my end. I have no intention of fighting- I was merely clearing up misconceptions.</p>

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<p>“Misconception”? Strong word…</p>

<p>Tiff, your reply?</p>

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<p>

This. This is the most accurate thing in this thread</p>

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<h2>My life would not have been any more complicated if I were not legally considered an adult ~ Tiff90</h2>

<p>Well, that is great for you, but you don’t speak for everyone.</p>

<p>A very large percentage of the population would greatly suffer. You do know that some people don’t come from good families, don’t you? </p>

<p>Imagine if you come from an abusive family, you’d be trapped in the home for an additional 3 years until you could sign a lease to an apartment, get a car loan, or sign any contract whatsoever. </p>

<p>Stupid.</p>

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<h2>Most people my age still have their parents pay for insurance, cell phones, tuition, room, food, gas and other expenses. Raising the age would result in limited complications, and little added complexity to college life. ~ Tiff90</h2>

<p>And people who don’t go to college? Or people who go to college but pay their own way?</p>

<p>Wake up, you are living in a bubble…a very spoiled one at that.</p>

<p>You have to be 21 to drink, get over it.</p>

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<p>"
And people who don’t go to college? Or people who go to college but pay their own way?</p>

<p>Wake up, you are living in a bubble…a very spoiled one at that.</p>

<p>You have to be 21 to drink, get over it. "</p>

<p>If you are over 18, and are not a fulltime student, you are not covered under your parents insurance policy. Many colleges offer insurance policies to independents. </p>

<p>How am I living in a bubble? And how exactly am I spoiled? I don’t get anything from my parents, most kids my age do. The point is, upping the age would cover people who are over 18. Even the new obamacare law only covers people up to 26 or 27 if they are FT students. Basically young people who can’t afford to go to school get screwed over in favor of those who can afford to, and one of the largest, if not largest, demograph of the uninsured is the young. This would be one possible solution to having more Americans covered without universal health care. I’m surprised someone as old as you wouldn’t be able to understand that concept better.</p>

<p>You don’t seem to realize I am explaining the pros of a policy. That does not mean I agree/want that. It seems like you really like ot jump the gun and think everytime a POV is explained, that person is supporting/opposing it. If you seriously didn’t know people lose insurance if they aren’t FT students, you are the one living in the bubble. </p>

<p>Like I said, I don’t care about the drinking age, at all. Changing it won’t benefit me in any way.</p>

<p>"
Well, that is great for you, but you don’t speak for everyone.</p>

<p>“A very large percentage of the population would greatly suffer. You do know that some people don’t come from good families, don’t you?”</p>

<p>How? Why does coming from a good family have any relevance to this discussion? People from “poor” families are still supported by their families until 18, even if that standard is not as high as a middle class family.</p>

<p>1) Less people would have permanent records
2) People would be gaurenteed 3 more years of health insurance without being forced to pay a tax for not buying insurance
3) Less people would have their credit screwed up by getting sucked into credit card debt</p>

<p>“Imagine if you come from an abusive family, you’d be trapped in the home for an additional 3 years until you could sign a lease to an apartment, get a car loan, or sign any contract whatsoever.”</p>

<p>Did you ever hear of something called legal emancipation? Did you ever hear of something called child protective services? </p>

<p>How many people from abusive families can even afford to move out at 18?</p>

<p>You can get all of those things with a co signer. Many of those things- leases, car loans, mortgages, you need a co signor for even if you are over 18, because young people don’t have extensive credit history. You’re greatly mistaken if you think most places will allow an 18 year old to sign a lease without a cosigner, because the landlord needs to know if the person misses a payment they can get their money somehow. If the tennant has no credit, why would a landlord allow them to sign a year long lease? </p>

<p>Once again, this is not something I feel strongly about, because I can drink whenever or wherever I want, have never been convicted of a crime or received an underage or DUI, but I have friends who have those on their records. I have a hard time thinking they would have made those mistakes today. The inconsistency is that the gov creates laws with different ages, meaning they consider 21 the age when you can make responsible decisions in some ways, even though 18 is the age of adulthood. It’s inconsistent. The drinking age will not be lowered anytime soon, because groups have plenty of binge drinking horror stories to sway politicans and voters, but viewing the problem from another perspective is helpful. I bet it would be easier to raise adulthood to 21 then to lower the drinking age to 18.</p>

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<p>I think it’s important for people to look at an issue from a different perspective without being blinded by their own biases. The point is, if gov uses the reasoning that 21 is when you can make responsible decisions, then why can they hold you legally responsible for actions committed before 21? It doesn’t make sense. The logical solution, in order to achieve conformity, would be to either lower the age for all activities to 18, or raise the age of adulthood to 21. Keep in mind the age to gamble in casinos/slots varies, and is not 18 in every state. Until there is one set age of adulthood, there is going to be controversy. Don’t get all personally offended because raising the age of adulthood would supposedly make your life more difficult. Policies aren’t just about you, it’s about what’s best for everyone. Stop being selfish and self centered and try your hardest to look at a policy from a different POV. How can you understand why a policy is intact if you can’t push yourself to understand their argument? You aren’t going to accomplish anything if all you do is get mad and rant about how much x affects you instead of trying to gain a better understanding of an issue. </p>

<p>It’s sad to see how few people make an attempt to understand another perspective.</p>

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<p>Right… which is why people have consistently said that raising the age of adulthood from 18 to 21 is not advisable. You may have the luxury to continue to be supported by your parents for three years during college, but most people do not. Being a young adult in college is already difficult enough when it comes to get credit, loans, etc- being legally considered a minor is going to be astronomically difficult. </p>

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<p>Yes, because most minors definitely have the resources to get legally emancipated :rolleyes: </p>

<p>You still have not answered this question. What are you going to do about the fact that minors can’t work normal hours? Can’t leave the country without explicit parental consent? Can’t sign any contract without a parent signing with them? That is NOT practical in a college setting- simple as that. When you explain how those things would be accomplished, then I might be able to see your point of view. But until then, it is damn near impossible to remain a minor for three years of college.</p>

<p>ETA:

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<p>I put that same advice to you. In fact, I think the majority of people in our age group would be greatly hurt by raising the age of a minor from those under 18 to those under 21. Don’t be a hypocrite and tell us to do something that you yourself are not.</p>

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<p>“ht… which is why people have consistently said that raising the age of adulthood from 18 to 21 is not advisable. You may have the luxury to continue to be supported by your parents for three years during college, but most people do not. Being a young adult in college is already difficult enough when it comes to get credit, loans, etc- being legally considered a minor is going to be astronomically difficult.”</p>

<p>I am not supported by my parents. I don’t have insurance when schools our of session. I don’t know why you would assume I am supported by my parents when I am stating that upping the age would HELP many people in the 18-21 who AREN’T supported in any way by their parents. </p>

<p>"</p>

<p>Quote:
I think it’s important for people to look at an issue from a different perspective without being blinded by their own biases.
Right… which is why people have consistently said that raising the age of adulthood from 18 to 21 is not advisable. You may have the luxury to continue to be supported by your parents for three years during college, but most people do not. Being a young adult in college is already difficult enough when it comes to get credit, loans, etc- being legally considered a minor is going to be astronomically difficult.</p>

<p>Quote:
Did you ever hear of something called legal emancipation?
Yes, because most minors definitely have the resources to get legally emancipated</p>

<p>You still have not answered this question. What are you going to do about the fact that minors can’t work normal hours? Can’t leave the country without explicit parental consent? Can’t sign any contract without a parent signing with them? That is NOT practical in a college setting- simple as that. When you explain how those things would be accomplished, then I might be able to see your point of view. But until then, it is damn near impossible to remain a minor for three years of college. "</p>

<p>Like I said, I am EXPLAINING a perspective, which does not mean it’s MY perspective. I explicitly said this is an issue I don’t care about. </p>

<p>work:</p>

<p>1) You can adjust the hours per age group.
2) I worked 40 hr weeks while I was a minor, but I was entitled to more breaks than my co workers, and received more protection from employer abuses than my adult co workers. Meaning raising the age would grant more rights to young adult workers, instead of less.</p>

<p>"Can’t leave the country without explicit parental consent? "</p>

<p>1) Why would that even be an issue? The reasons why young people leave the country typically fall into two catagories: family and study abroad.</p>

<p>Obviously family visits would be made with the parent in most instances, and approved. </p>

<p>Unless you are an independent, at many schools you need parental consent or to inform parents to study abroad. </p>

<p>Can you think of a practical, common scenerio in which that would be an issue? </p>

<p>It’s kind of like saying well, some people on welfare spend their check on drugs, so we should stop welfare. Every policy that exists has its flaws, and by your logic many of the welfare state policies should be overturned/revoked/w/e.</p>

<p>“Can’t sign any contract without a parent signing with them?”</p>

<p>Really wouldn’t be a big deal. Important contracts already need a cosigner. Having a parent cosign on a bank account would be a good thing for most people, since many college kids either get money from their parents or run into credit problems that parents bail them out of. There aren’t many contracts students enter that parents aren’t aware of. I guess the exception would be tattoos, but that’s not necessary in any way. I don’t think it would be such a big deal considering how many kids leech off of their parents.Again, laws can be adjusted. The big thing would be courts and gov can’t hold those under 21 are adults, which would give more protection to young adults. Additionally, it would probably be a good thing if people couldn’t enter the military until 21, because I know quite a few friends who would not have enlisted if they were older. In terms of voting: I hardly think an 18 year old has enough life experience or understanding of how the world/american political system works to make an educated vote. Personally, I don’t think people should vote until they are really adults: in the “Real world,” so to speak. Then again, I think if you pay taxes you should vote. My personal opinion is that you should not be taxed unless you could vote, and that could be applied to raising the age to 21. I have always felt that if the government can take your money, you should be allowed to vote those thieves out of office.</p>

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<p>I am going to leave with this, but: </p>

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<p>For it being something you don’t care about, you seem to have very, very strong opinions about this and you don’t seem to be able to look at any other perspective other than your own- something you have routinely chastised us about. </p>

<p>I will say it again: raising the age to 21 would screw over the majority of the college population in many ways. Leave it at 18. Lower the drinking age to 18 or high school graduation, whichever comes last.</p>

<p>ETA:
If the person does not graduate high school by age 21, then that would be the legal drinking age (in my law as stated above) and they would no longer be allowed in a typical high school. That is what the law currently is in Michigan- I am not sure if it is the same in other states.</p>