<p>I am planning on doing a pre med chem major and I am thinking about going to Duke and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the chem major/ classes. </p>
<p>Average GPA? Are the Chem majors studying all day? How hard is it?</p>
<p>I’m only a sophomore, so take my advice with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>The average GPA for chemistry majors is probably slightly below duke’s average GPA (which is a 3.4 or something, if I remember correctly), which is also the case for most hard science majors. There are several optional concentrations within the chemistry major, such as biochemistry or pharmacology; there is also the option to graduate with an ACS certification, which basically means you have to take some harder physical chemistry classes. The different concentrations differ in terms of difficulty; so if you are interested in applying to medical school, you should probably concentrate in one of the easier fields.</p>
<p>General Chemistry (Chem 31/32) and Organic Chemistry (Chem 151/152) are curved pretty harshly (B-), but once you finish that, higher level classes like physical chemistry (161/165/167) and biochemistry (227 and 228) are curved really nicely (usually to a B+/A-). The last few classes you usually take during senior year (namely analytic chemistry and inorganic chemistry), but that shouldn’t affect your GPA terribly much since you’ll be applying to medical schools by then. If you can AP out of General Chemistry and do really well in orgo, your GPA will probably stay pretty high throughout your 4 years here. </p>
<p>In terms of actual difficulty and time needed to study, it varies a lot. Orgo and biochemistry stresses logic and memorization, while physical chemistry stresses mathematical skills, so a chemistry major is pretty diverse in the skill set that it requires. It’s probably a tad bit harder than your average biology major, and probably easier than a math or physics major. You definitely have to study a lot for some classes (orgo comes to mind), but it’s not the kind of work that will keep you in the library all day.</p>
<p>Ok, thanks. I was wondering</p>
<ol>
<li><p>What are the all concentrations, and which are easiest?</p></li>
<li><p>If I already have taken AP Chem will I be able to get an A pretty easily in general chem? or would the harsh curve make it better to just use my AP credit to skip it?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<p>Skip it. Skip it. Skip it. If you can get out of an entry level class at Duke, do it. Duke courses are much harder than AP. It’s not always easy to get an A in the introductory courses even if you got a 5 on the AP test. I took general accelerated chem as an engineer and the majority of the class got 5’s on AP Chem. And it was curved to a C+/B- (although this class might not exist anymore…or at least has been renumbered/named), so many people who had a 5 on the AP test, ended up with a B or C or worse. (I wasn’t a chem major but had to take a at least one semester of chem lab, so that’s why I did that instead of orgo, which I didn’t take at all).</p>
<p>Is it really worth it to take Organic Chemistry my first semester? Isn’t that one of the most difficult and time consuming courses in Chemistry, and shouldn’t I take an easier schedule my first semester in order to get adjusted to college life and find my niche?</p>
<p>^Then take it second semester. If you’re going to be a chem major, you definitely need a solid background. So, if you feel a bit iffy on gen chem, maybe taking it again would be advisable. If, however, you’re simply taking chem as requirement for orgo/your other major, I think passing out of as many classes as you can is the way to go (again, unless you feel like you have a shaky foundation). Freshman orgo is definitely intense, but they have their own section that’s supposedly graded easier (but full of overachievers). So, maybe taking it second semester would be smarter. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking gen chem again if it will make the transition easier/you think it’s a better path. I just thought I’d let people know that it’s not going to be an easy A just because you’ve taken AP chem and done well. If you’re looking for an easy class, look elsewhere.</p>
<p>Of course, I realize that college classes will be harder than high school classes, AP or not, but what courses (if any) are considered “easier” in the math/science/engineering disciples? And what are the seminar courses in Trinity like?</p>
<p>Also, my brother is a biochem major at duke, and he took the honors gen chem first semester, orgo 1 second semester, and orgo 2 at a local college over the summer. Is there a way to not take orgo 2 over the summer, or does it make the most sense to do this?</p>
<p>@ premed4: You shouldn’t be looking for the “easiest” concentrations in chemistry, but the ones that are most appealing to you. It irks me when so many prospective premeds try to take the easy way out instead of doing what they are interested in. If you take courses or declare a concentration that you are interested in, you will naturally invest yourself in the material, find it interesting, and do well. If you want the easy way out to get into medical school, then don’t major in chemistry; only major in chemistry if you are interested in it.</p>
<p>I don’t know about all the concentrations, but I know one is pharmacology. AznGod1992 listed many of the other concentrations in his post.</p>
<p>I was told that 80-90% of Duke graduate get into Medical school, if they apply. If that is true, it seems that you may not need to worry about getting all A’s in your classes?</p>
<p>I believe the statistic is about 85% get into at least one medical school if they apply. However, this is from a very self selective sample. Premed anywhere is tough. Intro courses and I would think Chem151 especially will weed a lot of people out. So while you won’t need to get all As, you probably don’t want too many Bs either. (also, I am an incoming freshmen, so can someone with more credibility back me up?)</p>
<p>I don’t see much point in skipping intro courses because some of the higher level courses may be even tougher than the preliminary. In addition, some of the duke’s higher lvl classes may contain over 50 individuals (gosh right?). However, if you know your material really really well…I would recommend you to get a leg up and take higher lvl courses while your peers handle the intro material. In college, professors don’t generally like to collaborate strongly like the public high school system. Therefore, the difficulty of each course depends on the professor. So you cannot really expect to be fully ready for the next step since the next instructor might not go along a step-wise flow. If I were you, I would contact the professor before the class begins and basically discuss with him/her about the material being covered so that you could study ahead and grasp the abstract concepts the professor may try to elaborate on during lectures and etc…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Although this is correct in principle, it’s not necessarily the material that determines how “hard” a class will be, but rather the curve to which the class is set. Is gen chem conceptually hard? I think most people will probably say no. Is gen chem hard when the average grade is a C+? Yes, since you need to do an entire standard deviation or so above average to make an A; statistically speaking, that is a minority of the class. When you are competing with a class full of valedictorians and really intelligent people, it can be really hard to outperform the majority of them. In biochemistry, sure, the material is probably harder and more conceptually difficult, but when the curve is a B+, it suddenly doesn’t seem too bad. It’s not how well you do, but how well you do compared to your classmates; thus, the difficulty of the subject matter has little impact on your grade in a curved class, since everyone will be struggling with a hard subject no matter what. </p>
<p>
To an extent yes, but again, this is related to my earlier point. The best professor is the one who curves well. Although you might counter this is not necessarily the best teacher, there is usually a good correlation. Better teachers tend to teach the class well, which results in higher averages. Since the curve isn’t really set until the final raw scores are out, a higher average in a class could convince the professor to curve the class higher. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Although I would tend to agree with you in principle, this isn’t really the case for most of the chemistry classes here. Organic chemistry requires almost no knowledge of general chemistry besides basic acid/base chemistry, nomenclature, and basic quantum chemistry. These subjects can easily be reviewed in a weekend or less and make you completely prepared for orgo. Similarly, biochemistry requires little knowledge of organic chemistry besides except the basic mechanisms and maybe a few advanced reactions. Although physical chemistry/inorganic chemistry may be an exception (though I haven’t taken them yet), most of the chemistry classes here stand pretty well on their own.</p>
<p>TLDR: Skip as many classes as you can.</p>
<p>In my experience, advanced level science and engineering classes will go over the really necessary fundamental stuff again before delving into the new material. They know that you’ve likely forgotten everything over vacation so they spend a lecture or two jogging your memories, hitting only the things that are going to be relevant.</p>
<p>azngod: I agree with your clarifications. Thanks in advance for elaborating on your disagreements. I guess when you think about a lot of top ranked people being in just one room, competing for the best of grades, it can be pretty oppressing. </p>
<p>Ouroboros: I had not thought about this before, but after taking previous college courses, I can reflect that the professors certainly had to remind their students about fundamental concepts b/c students forget them sometimes. However, one must note that if you are really deficient in your knowledge of the subject, they cannot piggy back you to understand the more abstract info that they will present in their lectures.</p>
<p>I am assuming the OP does have a fair amount of understanding of the material. If he gets a 5 on the AP, that’s good enough. The trap people fall in is assuming they’d get an A by taking an intro course or that there’s some fundamental thing the intro course will cover that the AP didn’t. While the latter might be true to a small extent, the Chem department didn’t develop their AP policy on a whim.</p>