<p>I'm beginning to think about where to apply early, and after visiting a dozen colleges and pondering my potential majors, I have confidently narrowed down to Duke and Princeton as my clear top choices. </p>
<p>Here are my thoughts regarding the two universities:</p>
<p>Duke's Positives:
-Viscerally, my favorite campus out of those I visited.
-Beautiful, self-contained Gothic wonderland.
-Proximity to Chapel Hill/killer music scene.
-Massive school pride due to basketball (even though I myself am not a huge sport fan, school spirit is important because I come from a boarding school where there is a ton of school pride).
-Highly ranked for my intended major (BME/Neuroscience).
-WARM weather.<br>
-According to my college counselor, I have a very high chance of making it to Duke ED. That would save me a lot of hassle should I not get into Princeton SCEA.</p>
<p>Duke's Negatives: Not as prestigious as Princeton, though I'm not too concerned about prestige because I don't think my post-college opportunities will be limited in any way with a Duke degree.
-Friends say "But you can do so much better than Duke!" when I tell them I might apply to Duke ED.
-Has the reputation of being a fratty and jocky school (I'm neither athletic nor into the frat culture).
-Seems to exhibit an inferiority complex when compared to its Ivy peers (just my impression). </p>
<p>Princeton's Positives:
-My favorite Ivy, and probably the only Ivy I would even considering choosing over Duke.
-Beautiful, beautiful campus.
-Ranked quite up there for my intended major (Chemical & Bio Engineering).
-Better for overall engineering.
-Unrivaled overall reputation and prestige.
-Not-so-jocky student culture with an intellectual vibe (even compared to Duke).
-Close to Philly, where my home is.</p>
<p>Princeton's Negatives:
-The grade deflation scares me, and it'll be even tougher for an engineering student.
-The eating clubs might foster an elitist, social-climbing environment to which I am averse
-My private boarding school sends about 8% of the class to Princeton every year, and I don't want to spend another four years of high school.
-There's nothing to do in the Princeton area. I've gotten bored of the town because I go there once every month with my friends from the boarding school.
-Princeton SCEA is much harder to get into than Duke ED, even though I will still be a strong candidate since no one with similar stats to mine from my school has ever gotten rejected by Princeton in recent years.</p>
<p>Honestly, my heart is telling me to go for Duke, but crap my parents and friends are saying about Duke is seriously holding me back. Could CC please give me some advice?</p>
<p>“Friends say “But you can do so much better than Duke!” when I tell them I might apply to Duke ED”.</p>
<p>There are times in every person’s life when they have to make a decision between doing what they want to do and doing what’s expected of them. No one can tell you which way to go. All I can say is that this type of situation will rear its head on numerous occasions in the future. If you live your life in accordance with society’s dictates, you might never be able to break free from your self-imposed shackles. Plenty of people make the decision to abide by conventional wisdom. There is nothing wrong with that per se. You just have to decide whether or not you see yourself as one of those people. </p>
<p>“Seems to exhibit an inferiority complex when compared to its Ivy peers (just my impression)”.</p>
<p>You maybe onto something here, but you’re using the term ‘Ivy peers’ too loosely. I can assure you that Duke students don’t view themselves as being ‘inferior’ to students at Dartmouth, Cornell, Penn or Brown. As far as schools like Harvard and Princeton are concerned, Duke is far from being the only school with an ‘inferiority complex’. Perhaps you should spend some time on the campus of a ‘lesser Ivy’ and report back to us after you do. </p>
<p>“Has the reputation of being a fratty and jocky school (I’m neither athletic nor into the frat culture)”.</p>
<p>It’s a large, diverse school. You’ll find your fair share of solemn intellectuals. Trust me. </p>
<p>“Princeton SCEA is much harder to get into than Duke ED, even though I will still be a strong candidate since no one with similar stats to mine from my school has ever gotten rejected by Princeton in recent years”</p>
<p>Princeton SCEA is not ‘much harder’ to get into. As recently as last year, the acceptance rates differed by less than 4%. </p>
<p>Make an adult decision that pleases you. Both schools are fantastic and will open up intellectual and other opportunities almost beyond your imagination. But it is going to be YOUR experience, and your friends and parents won’t be there. </p>
<p>You just want self assurance by having someone tell you that you should apply to Duke. So, go ahead and apply to Duke. 8% of your high school goes to Princeton? And that’s why you dont wanna go, cuz it’ll feel like high school? That’s not even a valid point. I’m assuming ur high school is small. So 4 kids maybe? 8? There will be another 2000 whom you dont know. Self assurance is all you’re looking for. </p>
<p>Also, there’s a big LOL where people say you can do better than Duke. Duke is extremely competitive and isn’t an easy score for anyone. And anyone would be lucky to get in.</p>
<p>Actually, the Princeton SCEA rate at my school is indeed slightly higher than Duke ED’s (but both are around 50%), but the quality of the kids who apply to Duke ED is generally lower than the Princeton SCEA kids.</p>
<p>@muhammad: it’s actually 15 kids a year to Princeton. But I agree that is not really a valid point…perhaps what I wanted to say was that I hang out near Princeton and on the campus itself a lot (I have friends at Princeton), so spending another 4 years there would be tantamount to repeating high school, sort of. </p>
<p>@misanthrope: good point. But how could I justify to them that I’m not doing this out of cowardice? How might I convince my parents that I genuinely think Duke is a better fit? That I’m not just opting for “the easier way out”? </p>
<p>Tough choice. Both amazing opportunities. Given all that I’ve read about you, if you were my son / daughter I’d tell you to go with Duke and not look back. You’ll find that outside of the Northeast, Duke has a reputation close to Princeton. And for what you want to do, and for what environment you want to be a part of, Duke is a very good fit. Would you be comfortable being several hundred miles from home? You would be on your own and in a pretty different milieu. Maybe more laid back. Maybe a little more open (Southern hospitality). But definitely as intellectual as you could want. </p>
<p>You can convince your real parents that Duke is the best fit by telling them that Duke is the best fit. I know its not that easy and I respect your parents opinion on this matter. They have a lot invested here and they know you best. But stay at it. See if they can persuade you otherwise or visa versa. It’s good that you’re wrestling with this now.</p>
<p>Well, my friend (a PhD student at Princeton, Duke undegrad) says that Princeton’s campus is basically a not as nice and smaller version of Duke’s and that there is absolutely nothing to do in Princeton itself compared to Durham where there is actually a surprisingly lot to do (as you’ve said you’ve already discovered; hard to believe that there aren’t ANY hangout spots/bars for at least the grad students at Princeton, but that’s what I hear…). So, sounds like Duke has Princeton beat on the campus beauty and off-campus life categories. </p>
<p>Having said that, obviously Princeton is a phenomenal school and has Duke beat on the ‘prestige’ factor (if that’s important to you). Both will offer great educations and opportunities for growth. In addition, applying ED most definitely DOES give you an advantage over applying RD, so applying SCEA to Princeton and then Duke RD and hoping to get into one of the two is probably riskier than applying ED to Duke and RD to Princeton. (I don’t know if SCEA gives you a “leg up” at Princeton). Your high school must be extremely competitive to send that many people to Princeton - impressive. Personally, I think if you think you would be very happy at Duke and not ask ‘what if’ continually, then apply to Duke ED. It’s a great choice. If deep down you really want to go to Princeton over Duke and would continually regret not giving it a shot, apply to Princeton SCEA. If you want to increase your odds of being accepted to one of the two and would be equally happy at either, apply to Duke ED.</p>
<p>While Duke still hasn’t shed its reputation of being “fratty/a jock school,” it’s largely based on outdated stereotypes. Duke is a really diverse place (including plenty of intellectual nerdy types) that provides a positive atmosphere for a wide range of individuals. If you want to be into the Greek system or sports, it’s an option, but by no means its it a requisite to have fun or form bonds with your classmates. I was not in a fraternity and had a great social experience (I did play a club sport though…).</p>
<p>As a current Duke undergraduate whose dream school was Princeton, I can offer a pretty good perspective on this. Duke is definitely a fratty school but that vibe has decreased manifold in the three years that I’ve been here. Greek life is on the sharp decline at Duke and I expect that to continue. The administration recognizes that to keep a strong and vibrant school atmosphere, some things have to go as these organizations only promote exclusivity. The intellectual vibe is not as apparent as that of a top level Ivy League such as Princeton but it is still very strong and apparent. I would describe Duke as an Ivy League level school with the sports culture and passion of a state school. The result is a pretty interesting mix. Students generally seem pretty happy and I love my school overall. There are many things wrong with it but I would not have it any other way if I could go back. If you want more specifics, feel free to message me. </p>
<p>Many of my friends went to Princeton. Yes, it is more prestigious but it does lack many things that Duke has. The point is, you’ll be able to go to anywhere you want at both schools. The difference in prestige is negligible compared to the difference in happiness you will have if you choose the wrong school. If you look at statistics of where alumni from both schools go, top firms such as Goldman Sachs and McKinsey take a lot of kids from both places. If you work hard at either, you’ll be equally as successful. The school’s name will not be the difference. I would recommend that you really evaluate what you want out of a college. I think Princeton would give you a more serious and intellectual college experience whereas Duke will give you one of the most balanced college experiences possible. I think the only other college more balanced than Duke is Stanford. Good luck and let me know if I can help. </p>
<p>PS: Regarding the post above that says that Princeton gets better quality applicants, keep in mind that a school a person attends is only a reflection of their accomplishments up until age 17 or 18. That is so minor and minuscule in the grand scheme. I wouldn’t let the arguments of prestige let you make the decision. The only college that I think is “much better” than Duke is Harvard which is in a category of its own. </p>
<p>@bluedog: haha my impression is that the town of Princeton itself is pretty sterile. Music is a big part of my life, so I have genuinely been disappointed by the lack of a good venue nearby where indie musicians frequently tour and give gigs.</p>
<p>@cornetking222: Prestige is not of paramount importance to me, considering I intend to major in BME at Duke, for which Duke is supposed to be renowned. I don’t intend to go into iBanking so I don’t think majoring in Chemical Engineering at the brandy Princeton will make that big of a difference. However, I do feel attracted to the intellectual vibe of Princeton University. Going to an elite boarding school, I have learned a lot not just from the classrooms but also from intellectual conversations with friends in the dorm and in the dining hall–and I wish to continue this in college.</p>
<p>Or perhaps I should branch out of my shell to enjoy a more “balanced” college experience, as you said. I do envision myself getting into college basketball (I don’t really care at the moment about college sport) and cheering for the Blue Devils once at Duke. In this respect, I think I will ask more"what-ifs" if I end up at Princeton than if I end up a Dukie. However, I’m not sure how difficult the initial transition for me will be at Duke as someone not athletically inclined. What do you think?</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have also heard that the grade deflation policy at Princeton causes the culture there to be more grades-focused than genuinely intellectual. A Princeton friend of mine once told me, “as long as the person next to me fails, I should be okay”. I know this could be an exception rather than the rule, but I’d definitely NOT like to be in such an environment. </p>
<p>@cornetking222 Great post. I don’t quite agree with the last sentence though. </p>
<p>As far as an intellectual vibe is concerned, it doesn’t permeate all aspects of campus life but it is definitely tangible. Students at Duke like to be challenged and they are more than willing to engage in intellectual debates. You just have to ‘coax’ it out of a few of them. </p>
<p>I am an intellectual (albeit a self proclaimed one), and I have managed to encounter an abundance of like-minded individuals at Duke. Some Duke students (or Princeton students for that matter) might associate overt displays of intellectual prowess with pomposity, but most of your contemporaries at Duke will be more than willing to engage in the kind of intellectual ‘grandstanding’ (I’m not using the word in a pejorative sense) that people like us cherish so deeply. </p>
<p>Athletics was the furthest things from my mind until college. I never played a sport although I like to stay active personally. The culture is too strong to not notice. At Duke, everyone cares about the basketball team, even those that hardly know what the sport is. I think the gap between these two schools is lessening. The average Duke student and the average Princeton student are not far off. The difference in prestige is primarily due to Princeton’s longer history. As all of the top American universities now have sub 10% acceptance rates, do you really think kids are Princeton are truly more accomplished than kids at Duke? Anyone who answers yes is full of garbage as a euphemism. Of course, there are people who still use prestige to make themselves feel better. If you are one of those people, then go to Princeton or else you’ll spend 4 years wishing you had. Otherwise, give Duke a serious chance. </p>
<p>@Misanthrope1 I still think Harvard is in a league of its own though. The quality of people I’ve met from there are surely unrivaled by any other school. </p>
<p>@GnocchiB: Thank you! As a junior, your D definitely still has the time to think it through, and I’m sure she’ll be able to make an informed decision.</p>
<p>Great to hear that someone else went through the same Duke vs. Princeton decision-making process that I did - and came to the same conclusion - with the same result! In retrospect, I am thrilled to have decided on Duke and that I was accepted ED. Many thanks to @TopTier for the straight forward posts on cc which helped guide my decision. </p>
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