Duke (Pratt) vs Northwestern (McCormick)

[nads]

<p>So I had pretty much decided on going to Northwestern (McCormick) and possibly study Industrial Engineering. The "selling points" for me for Northwestern were the many engineering majors offered (since I am still a bit unsure about my future in engineering), the undergraduate business certificate programs available through Kellogg (since I am still interested in going to business school in the future), and being invited into the Murphy Scholars program which gives me a $4000 research stipend and personal interaction with top notch faculty, focusing on research. I visited campus for Wildcat Days and felt that this was a good fit for me.</p>

<p>However, I found out that I was recently just pulled off the waitlist for Duke and offered admission. I think i would like the "southern mindset" of Duke (less cutthroat, more cooperative) more. The campus, the weather, the people, the sports all in my opinion beat out Northwestern, but I do not know too much about their engineering program. I do know that their BME is ranked #2 which is incredible, but I am unsure if that is the right program for me. I also do not know too much about undergraduate business opportunities available (there is a market/ management certificate, but i'm unsure how strong that is) and the various research opportunities available. Hopefully someone can help me out here? </p>

<p>So pretty much both schools fit me well and I was just wondering, in terms of their academics, especially in engineering, business opportunities, and research opportunities, which one was better? and which school do you think would be the better choice? thanks.</p>

[tenisghs]

<p>Northwestern engineering is superior to Duke engineering.</p>

<p>Choose Duke if you want to do BME. If your heart is on Industrial, choose Northwestern.</p>

[nads]

<p>ugh sorry guys… but bump?</p>

[wbwa]

<p>I see Northwestern as less competitive and, outside of BME (in which it is also very strong), a superior engineering school.</p>

<p>Duke is not “Southern,” just ask Southerners. Lots and lots of Yankees ■■■■■■■■ the campus.</p>

<p>Northwestern is more Chicago in feel than small town Midwest, but vibe is very cooperative.</p>

<p>Opportunities post-grad will be equally great from both.</p>

[Marsden]

<p>Duke is full of students from all over, but it does retain a distinctly ‘southern’ feel, particularly in comparison with Ivy League colleges. It’s more laid-back, for better or worse.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>Duke’s BME and NU’s IE are both ranked #4, so Duke’s BME is no more “incredible” than NU’s industrial. NU has one of the most establsihed CO-OP and the IE curriculum means you would pretty much automatically fulfill most of the prereqs for Kellogg cert. You also got Murphy scholars program. In terms of your academic interest, NU is a better fit and seems to offer much more.</p>

[eatsalot]

<p>

@Marsden

but it does retain a distinctly ‘southern’ feel

</p>

<p>Why do people think they can pull stuff out of nowhere? If you went to Duke, you’d know that it is has no southern feel whatsoever. It’s surprising to many southerners who do come to Duke. Duke’s campus atmosphere is very similar to that of the Ivies.</p>

<p>OP, a common misconception that a lot of high school students have is that you need an undergraduate business program to pursue business. Notice that Duke, along with many other top schools (Columbia, Yale, Harvard, et al) are liberal arts schools and do not offer a business program for undergrad. And yet, these are all some of the BEST schools to go for finance/consulting. </p>

<p>Undergraduate economics at Duke is very strong, and it shows through the recruitment process:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.duke.edu/sites/default/files/mwilson@duke.edu/recruit_at_duke_pdf_81012.pdf[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.duke.edu/sites/default/files/mwilson@duke.edu/recruit_at_duke_pdf_81012.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The top firms recruit at Duke (Goldman, JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Boston Consulting Group, McKinsey etcetc), so by going to do you will not be cutting yourself off from incredible opportunities to pursue business.</p>

<p>Also, do not look at rankings when looking at engineering programs (especially non-traditional engineering schools such as Pratt). Pratt is unique: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/891662-how-pratt-engineering.html?highlight=pratt[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/891662-how-pratt-engineering.html?highlight=pratt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

Pratt also is really diverse from an interest standpoint. While certain engineering schools crank out only engineers, Pratt has a LOT of future consultants, bankers, doctors, etc. So, I’d say if you want a more intimate engineering school in the context of a larger liberal arts school that is quite prestigious but not centered on tech/engineering and aren’t 100% convinced you want to be an engineer, then Pratt is a great choice. There are TONS of opportunities for research (something like 80% of Pratt undergrads to research) and as I said the students and faculty are top-notch.

</p>

<p>Most Pratt students don’t actually pursue a 9-5 engineering job, but rather go into finance (which you seem to be interested in), medicine, or academia. It’s a very well-rounded. interdisciplinary engineering school. That being said, my friends who do pursue engineering are going to high-profile firms like Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Facebook, etc. My friends always talk about how much they enjoy the programs, and the students and professors themselves are all very good.</p>

<p>A lot of your choice should be based on fit. </p>

<p>

The campus, the weather, the people, the sports all in my opinion beat out Northwestern,

</p>

<p>These are all very important. Northwestern engineering won’t land you places that Duke won’t.</p>

[vociferous]

<p>The offer at Northwestern is incredible. I would take it easily.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>eatalot,</p>

<p>There’s no doubt Duke is a target for many top firms. I just think NU is a better fit for OP in terms of academics, given his stated interests. Industrial engineering and management sciences is a nice bridge between business and engineering. NU has this deal to double-count some of the courses for IE-econ dual major and more than half of the IE at NU major in econ because it’s so easy to do so. With IE, the OP literally has his foot into the door of the Kellogg certificate program, which is taught by Kellogg professors. Not to mention the fact that research opportunities and mentorship are guaranteed under the Murphy Scholars program. School isn’t just a stepping stone for jobs, it’s also where you get to study what you are most interested in. That being said, the Kellogg cert has already had incredible job placement since it was launched a little over two years ago.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>NU>>Duke for IE.</p>

[nads]

<p>thanks everyone for their input. I just have a few more questions… are there any certificate programs in duke that are “business” related? i’ve seen something on a certificate called markets and management studies but i dont know the strength of it or how well the students who graduate from the program fare in the workplace/ grad school. can anyone comment on this?</p>

[Marsden]

<p>Two words: **Magnolia Grandiflora
**

<a href=“http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flowers/images/magnolia_grand_tree.jpg[/img]”>http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flowers/images/magnolia_grand_tree.jpg

</a></p>

[eatsalot]

<p>

thanks everyone for their input. I just have a few more questions… are there any certificate programs in duke that are “business” related? i’ve seen something on a certificate called markets and management studies but i dont know the strength of it or how well the students who graduate from the program fare in the workplace/ grad school. can anyone comment on this?

</p>

<p>There are a couple of options:</p>

<p>-finance minor
-finance concentration within economics major
-markets and managment certificate</p>

<p>They are all viable options. I have had friends who pursued the MMS with econ and gotten hired by elite firms and still many who didn’t pursue te MMS either. It’s up to you. The MMS certificate is great for those who want a little bit more experience directly with business and does seem to help students get hired, which could attest to it’s attractiveness with employers</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>nads,</p>

<p>If you search their websites, “Markets and Management certificate” at Duke is equivalent to “Business Institutions Program certificate” at Northwestern; both are basically “business-light” with certain liberal-arts flavor and they are open to everyone on campus. On the othe hand, Kellogg certificate is on a totally different level; you will be taking MBA-level courses taught by Kellogg professors</p>

<p>Also as a prospective Murphy Scholar, you may want to check out the on-going research in the IEMS department (#4 in the nation). [Northwestern</a> University - Research](<a href=“Research | Industrial Engineering & Management Sciences | Northwestern Engineering”>Research | Industrial Engineering & Management Sciences | Northwestern Engineering)</p>

[nads]

<p>I know it’s been a while but I’ve been reconsidering my options. I dont think Industrial Engineering is the right major for me so this is what I’m thinking. Either I study Materials Science at northwestern or biomedical engineering at duke. I’ve been looking into both and they both seem very interesting, but could anyone briefly explain what kind of work one from either major can go into?</p>

<p>Also which do you guys think is the stronger department and which major would give me a better chance of success in the workplace / graduate school? Thanks again.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>

which do you guys think is the stronger department

You mean mat sci vs bme? You can’t really compares orange to apples. Duke’s BME is 4th and NU’s Mat Sci is 3rd in case you are wondering about their rankings.</p>

<p>

which major would give me a better chance of success in the workplace / graduate school?

The more you are interested in your work, the better chance you will have to succeed. </p>

<p>NU’s BME, though not as highly ranked as Duke’s, is ranked 15th. So if you find out you like BME or say, chemE, the most, you are not stuck with a weak department. On the other hand, your option is more limited at Duke if you find out you hate your first bio class. There’s no mat sci or industrial or chem engg there.</p>

[tenisghs]

<p>Nads, only you can decide which path you want to pursue. Materials Science (the structure of materials and nanotechnology) and Biomedical (designing equipment for health care) are totally different fields.</p>

[bluedog]

<p>

Duke’s BME is 4th and NU’s Mat Sci is 3rd in case you are wondering about their rankings.

</p>

<p>Those are grad rankings. For undergrad, Duke’s BME is 2nd and NU’s Mat Sci is 5th.</p>

<p>[Undergraduate</a> Engineering Specialties: Biomedical - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-biomedical]Undergraduate”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-biomedical)
[Undergraduate</a> Engineering Specialties: Materials - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-materials]Undergraduate”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-materials)</p>

<p>Having said that, that difference means absolutely nothing. Both are top programs.</p>

<p>

Also which do you guys think is the stronger department and which major would give me a better chance of success in the workplace / graduate school? Thanks again.

</p>

<p>Honestly, I think you’re focusing on the wrong aspects. Yes, in deciding where to attend college (or choosing a major) in general, the chance of a good job/grad program after graduation is usually at the top of the list. But anybody who tells you that going to Duke BME over Northwestern Mat Sci or vice versa is going to help you land a better job/grad program, is either lying or misinformed. The difference is really really negligible either way. It’s going to have a lot more to do about YOU than the school. BOTH will prepare you very well for whatever you decide to do upon graduation.</p>

<p>What I personally think you should be focusing on is, where do you feel more comfortable? Where do you think you’d enjoy your four more years more? Where do you think will challenge you as an individual and help you grow academically and socially? Where would you be proud to call your alma mater? Go with your gut. If something just feels right, do it.</p>

<p>

There’s no mat sci or industrial or chem engg there.

</p>

<p>That’s no true (the mat science part). One of Duke’s four departments is called “Mechanical Engineering and Material Science.” So, yes, while it’s incorporated into the ME department, there are TONS of classes to take in mat sci and lots of professors doing research in that field. Hear about the invisibility cloak that was successful recently? That was at Duke.</p>

<p>[How</a> to Build an Invisibility Cloak | Materials Science | DISCOVER Magazine](<a href=“http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/building-invisibility-cloak]How”>http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/building-invisibility-cloak)</p>

<p>There is NOT a lot of industrial eng going on at Duke, though, so if you’re interested in that, it’s probably not the best choice. There is a far amount of chem eng going on actually as well. Duke is really interdisciplinary in the research, so even if a department doesn’t exist, there is most likely a professor whose research largely falls under that field. This interdisciplinary nature is fostered by not only the proximity of the medical school (unlike Northwestern where you have to go all the way to downtown Chicago ), but by how the research buildings are organized. I was in a BME lab working with a biochem PhD student, next to a bio lab, which was next to a genetics lab, next to a computational biology lab. It’s structured based on research topics as opposed to straight up departments a lot of the time.</p>

<p>I honestly don’t know how all these high school seniors absolutely know what type of engineering they want to go into without having experienced it. I certainly didn’t. Maybe people know more about themselves than I did, who knows. But just as a general piece of advice, keep an open mind. Your interests will likely change when you actually take courses and get into research. At Duke, also it is INCREDIBLY easy to double major in two engineering departments. ME/BME is quite common, so you could dabble in both material science and BME if you want. And when I say “easy” I don’t mean that the courses are easy. Simply that double majoring is pretty much the same as single majoring, just you take different classes. There aren’t any more requirements. As opposed to taking 6 BME elective for examples, you have to take 3 BME and 3 ME. So, it’s just more spread out. I have no idea what it’s like at Northwestern, but looks like Sam Lee could help you out there.</p>

<p>In the end, I think comparing these two fine institutions and programs based on what they’d offer you from a career/grad school prospect viewpoint is a bit misguided. They’re both top programs and will prepare you well. You should choose based on where your heart is set. If you go to Duke, would you always be asking “what if I had gone to Northwestern? How would it have turned out?” Alternatively, if you choose Northwestern, will you ask yourself “What if I had gone to Duke? What am I missing out on?” If you think you’d ask yourself anything like that, that’s your answer. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>

That’s no true (the mat science part). One of Duke’s four departments is called “Mechanical Engineering and Material Science.” So, yes, while it’s incorporated into the ME department, there are TONS of classes to take in mat sci and lots of professors doing research in that field.

But if you look at the courses offered [Courses</a> | Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science](<a href=“http://www.mems.duke.edu/courses]Courses”>Undergraduate Courses | Duke Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science), there’s really not much in mat sci. Go to Undergrads -> degree planning, you will see it says mechanical engineering.</p>

[bluedog]

<p>

But if you look at the courses offered Courses | Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science, there’s really not much in mat sci. Go to Undergrads -> degree planning, you will see it says mechanical engineering.

</p>

<p>Fair enough. There are certainly more ME than mat sci courses and your degree will be in mechanical engineering. All I meant to suggest is it’s not like all material science research/course exposure would be completely blocked off at Duke. There’s still a significant amount to pique one’s interest in mat sci, and if a student is particularly interested in it, they can do research with an appropriate professor and get independent study credit, etc. To me, engineering is narrow enough that I like taking a “broader” major that exposes me to a wider variety of topics, and then choose a research field that is particular interesting. But others of course can disagree. Also, many people take grad courses (in fact, I think you’re required to take one or two 200-level classes, although I didn’t look up the ME requirements), which does have some more:</p>

<p>[Graduate</a> Courses | Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science](<a href=“http://www.mems.duke.edu/graduate-courses]Graduate”>Graduate Courses | Duke Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science)</p>