<p>If I pay Duke $200K for my son to go there, I would like for him to treat others with respect and vice versa. I think that if you pay $200K to China, they may listen to your complaints. If you still try to argue that there is nothing for Duke to act upon, you may be worse than the communist using your own example!</p>
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<p>I would say it depends. For example, if the student arrives at college thinking that all Asian people are the same, or robotic, or only like math and science, then I would say that they are racist, because the truth is so obvious. But if they arrived at college not knowing that using the term “coolie hat” was offensive and used it to describe someone’s costume, then I think you would be wrong to call them racist. Not everyone is aware of racist symbols and cues, especially about those races which they may not have had much exposure to in their lives.</p>
<p>I think there is a difference between being a jerk and being racist. I think it’s possible some of the Duke Kappa Sigs were racist, and others were just jerks.</p>
<p>We also all did a few idiotic things when we were that age. That’s how we learned NOT to do any more idiotic things. People told us, or the minute we did it, we knew.</p>
<p>The worst thing about social media is that all these mistakes are so public. The best thing about social media is it’s making the idiotic thing learning curve speed up.</p>
<p>Still, it’s a lot of pressure when anything you do can be put out there for public consumption.</p>
<p>I don’t believe intent is necessary for an action to be racist. If kids are making racist comments and behaving in ways that an ethnicity finds racist, it can still be racist behavior even it they’re not aware. Now, I agree that the people themselves are not necessarily racists if they are unaware that their behavior is offensive- just that the behavior is. This presents a learning opportunity, and I’m sure there have been instances of a comment or a behavior we’ve all experienced that we may not have recognized as racist until it was pointed out to us, perhaps by an offended party.<br>
People don’t always agree on what constitutes a racist comment or behavior, but my feeling is that if the affected ethnicity says it is, then that needs to be respected.</p>
<p>I think what bothers me so much about this incident is that it was pointed out, and the kids continued anyway. Where’s the respect, for the school, for the kids who are offended, and for themselves?</p>
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<p>It does not follow that because the actions of the Chinese or Japanese governments are (or can be seen as) racist that Asians at Duke necessarily are racist (or racist in the same way that the aforementioned governments may be). Yes, some probably are*, but why do you assume that they are because of actions by governments that they have no relation to or influence over?</p>
<p>*When Asian Americans are racist, it is more often against white and/or black people in the US, rather than the types of racism that may be more common in China or Japan or practiced by governments there, so using those governments as “proof” of racism among Asian Americans does not even indicate the “matching” type of racism.</p>
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<p>Remember, though, that opinions among members of the affected ethnicity can vary considerably.</p>
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<p>“worthy grand master” That one made me laugh.</p>
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<p>i’m sure some schools have theme parties that poke fun at stereotypes of other schools… actually I know they do.</p>
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<p>He did turn down the title of Grand Wizard, after pondering a second about picking Imperial Wizard.</p>
<p>I am surprised how often people in the U.S. use the term “Asian” when they actually are referring to people from a specific group of countries (e.g., China,Taiwan, Japan, South Korea) in East Asia. Asia is a continent, the largest continent in size, population and number of countries - I think there are around 50 countries in Asia including India, Pakistan,the former Soviet Union and countries in the Middle East. Asia is too diverse to be accurately symbolized by a pointed straw hat, a turban or any single piece of headgear or other clothing. Asia is a continent like Europe, North America, South America, etc. it is not comparable to a country (such as Mexico or Ireland, which were mentioned in this thread.) </p>
<p>[List</a> of sovereign states and dependent territories in Asia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Asia]List”>List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Asia - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>So in addition to that Asian party seeming offensive to me (for the linguistic stereotype in particular), it also gave me an impression of the party planners as not being as bright as I would expect Duke students to be.</p>
<p>Is an Asian-themed party racist? Well, does it show true respect to the race/culture that it is focusing on? An example of this would be a “Chinese New Year” event at a school, where the importance of the holiday is discussed, children can learn about how people celebrate, what they wear, etc. They may be able to try on clothes, eat a meal, and sing a song. It is educational, respectful, and fun. My children have participated many times in such events at school and church.</p>
<p>Does anyone really think that an Asian-themed fraternity party is the same sort of occasion? Does anyone think that its intent is to educate about or celebrate Asian culture in a respectful way? What about a blackface party or a “hillbilly”-themed party?</p>
<p>Maybe we should go back to what my parents and grandparents would have said about people who would do such a thing, back in the days when the word “racism” wasn’t commonly used. They would have called their behavior rude and said that their mommas (and daddies) must not have taught them manners. The mommas and daddies would have been appalled and they would have, as we say here, “had a prayer meeting” with their sons. Most young women would have given such men a cold shoulder.</p>
<p>There is no question that the fraternity members should have known that their behavior was wrong. Over 18 and admitted to Duke – and they claim that their behavior wasn’t meant to be disrespectful? Come on. My children knew by age 8 (probably even younger) that it is wrong to mock people’s cultures, even when you pretend that you’re not mocking them. Either these boys’ parents didn’t set the expectation of respectful behavior or they did expect it and are now appalled. They should, right this moment, be calling their sons on the carpet. Alas, what we see too often is parents defending their children’s bad behavior. Let’s hope that this time things are different.</p>
<p>“They would have called their behavior rude and said that their mommas (and daddies) must not have taught them manners. The mommas and daddies would have been appalled and they would have, as we say here, “had a prayer meeting” with their sons. Most young women would have given such men a cold shoulder.”</p>
<p>I think part of what is being discussed is the extent to which the college should come down hard versus having them simply experience the natural consequences of their actions - people will think they are jerks, the sororities won’t want to partner with them for mixers and activities, etc. </p>
<p>And I’m willing to bet that among the parents, there’s a mix of “oh, boys will be boys, get a sense of humor” and “what WERE you thinking, I didn’t raise you to act like that.”</p>
<p>Pizzagirl – If the rest of society came down hard on them, there would be much less of a need for the university to do so. The problem is that I don’t think that they will be held as accountable by their friends, family members, or even the university as they should be. The “boys will be boys” and “we’re paying for this expensive school, so you better not cross us” attitude is not uncommon among a certain group of very wealthy parents of Duke students.</p>
<p>Well, no matter what the parents of the students who arranged that Asian party think about the situation, it is important to note that colleges and universities are choosing from a variety of responses to student behavior in the school community that is considered offensive on the basis of race, culture, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Some responses may be focused on punishing those responsible, such as closing down a club or group, but others may also focus on a clear statement of the university or college commitment to understanding and respect for diversity, promoting dialogue among students, faculty and administration about these matters in a manner aimed at increasing understanding and respect for diversity or even establishing a required course or sequence of courses on topics concerning race, culture, sexism, etc. as part of the curriculum.</p>
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<p>This is because Asian-Americans call themselves Asians and Asian-Americans. When I was young, we used the term Orientals (which is now considered offensive, I understand), and this did not include East Indians, which we called Pakistanis. It may not have been 100% accurate, but it made more sense to me.</p>
<p>Not that this detail will make whatever happened forgivable, but I’d like to point out that the party was called “Asia Prime.” Not Asian Prime, not Asian-American Prime. I see a distinction in a theme party called Germany Prime, as opposed to White Prime. Or Mexico Prime versus Latino Prime. One is themed around a country or geographical region (not America), the other is about race.</p>
<p>I am the one who thinks mocking other countries is different from and not offensive like mocking other races.</p>
<p>Bay, did you think Polack jokes were funny? I get your point, though, and mocking a particularl country may not be offensive. But it might be, depending on the mocking involved. A party mocking Mexico would be offensive if was all about “wetbacks,” etc.</p>
<p>Somebody upthread said it’s about power–I guess I would also say it’s about vulnerability. If somebody wants to mock, say, England at a party, so what? There’s no history of oppression of English people, and few very negative stereotypes about them. English people may not like it, but they aren’t really vulnerable.</p>
<p>Irish people are an interesting example. There was a time in US history when they were highly vulnerable, and discriminated against. That’s no longer the case. So is a party mocking the Irish offensive? Maybe, but not everything Irish-related is offensive, even if adopted by non-Irish.</p>
<p>P.S. Have you noticed that Polack jokes have disappeared? It’s probably thanks to Lech Walesa and Pope John Paul II. I guess they’ve been replaced by blonde jokes.</p>
<p>I work in television, and at one point we were told that the Scottish were the only group that did not mind gentle mocking and stereotyping - bring on the bagpipes and kilts! Not sure if this is true anymore.</p>
<p>The Duke kids showed terrible judgment with the awful language on the invitation. And lots of nerve having the party after the school asked them to cancel it. But I don’t believe that the frat threw the party with racist intentions. Theme parties (luaus, fiestas, etc.) are hotter than ever - It seems as if all students went off to college with their preschool costume boxes. </p>
<p>The intellectual UChicago (“Conquistadors and Aztec Hoes”) and the fratless Claremont McKenna (“Bros, Pilgrims, and Nava-hoes”) had similar incidents recently. And CMC raised the insensitivity bar last week with their Camo & Ammo party - “You best be coming armed and ready to party!” </p>
<p><a href=“Gun-Themed College Party Causes Controversy | The College Fix”>Gun-Themed College Party Causes Controversy | The College Fix;
<p>I don’t think that all these kids were “raised wrong,” sadly just clueless about what will offend.</p>
<p>How can one be so clueless in modern society, though?
I got this excuse a lot in hs and I no longer buy it. :</p>
<p>Yeah, some of these things are just what I think of as “playground issues.” </p>
<p>the kid comes to the playground and acts like a jerk and doesn’t get invited to the sleepover. Lesson learned.</p>
<p>The kids throw a sick party and nobody wants to have a beer with them anymore and the girls don’t want to date them. Lesson learned.</p>
<p>Nowadays, the kid doesn’t get invited for a sleepover and the parents call. The kids act like idiots and the school intervenes. (maybe this solves it. I don’t know.)</p>
<p>I think “the playground” is bigger and more public these days. This is fortunate and unfortunate, in ways. Still, I think college kids fall under the “still learning” umbrella, and as Oscar Wilde said, “Experience is the name we give our mistakes.”</p>
<p>Of course, the Duke kids chanting “How’s Your Grandma” at the NCState kid whose grandmother had died the night before and was tossing freethrows, the other other night, illustrates a kind of deep insensitivity on that campus which is troubling, from a campus culture perspective.</p>