Duke Univ. or Cornell early decision, Not following College Counselor recommendation

College Search & Selection
1

Deciding between Duke Univ. and Cornell Univ. for ED application. Would it be a bad idea to go against the College Counselor’s more favorable recommendation of Cornell?

My parents and Grandparents, think I should try for Duke.

I just want to go to either of these schools, some days I really want Duke and other days I like Cornell better.

I attend a private school in south Florida
• GPA weighted 4.9
• Not submitting ACT /SAT scores- taking advantage of test optional year.
• Applying ED
• AP and Honors classes
• TeD talk, Summer work experience, Volunteer award
• Extra letter of recommendation from the president of Organization I received Volunteer Award.
• Cross Country, TSA Competition
• SEA expedition Summer Program
• Grandfather and Uncle Duke Graduates

When I spoke my College Counselors about submitting the Duke ED application, she always says Duke will be a reach, but she will support my decision, but then immediately begins talking about Cornell.

My parents think given the COVID pandemic, and other events of 2020, will affect college admissions.

Whereas previous years I probably would not be accepted to Duke but this year there are several variables that will affect college admissions, and these variable may provide an opportunity that I could be accepted.

The College Counselors, tends discourage the ED application to Duke, and continually pushes for Cornell. Honestly, I do not see the difference, if she doesn’t think Duke will accept me, how does she think Cornel would?

The College Counselor claims, other students from my school, applying to Duke, have higher GPAs, as well as research projects on their transcripts.

I get the impression the Counselor does not want me to apply Duke, for other reasons, than it is a reach school for me. Even when I explained my Grandfather really wants me to apply, and see what happens.

The question is, Should I apply ED Duke, and not follow the recommendation of my Counselor?
What are your thoughts?

2

Sounds like your GC knows the competition you will face within your own school. That’s the benefit of a private school - good counseling.

That said it’s your ED and it should go to the school you like the most. Just be prepared to apply to match and safety schools.

3

Cornell could accept you because you offer geographic diversity. Have you visited? Rainy, cloudy, cold weather is a big difference from FL and Duke.
Sounds like you might regret not trying ED for Duke. You could be deferred to RD. Keep working hard and you can update them with semester progress.
Agree with suggestion that you find target and matches. Keep up your hard work and you may be in a position to transfer to Cornell later.

4

@Study925 In general, do you think your GC knows what she is talking about and has wisdom in this area? Does she have a track record of success?
It is hard for us to judge her opinions, but you know her better.
It comes down to who you believe knows more about this process, your grandfather or your GC. Who has an emotional stake in this, your grandfather or GC? Then, as another commented, will you have regret if you do not get into Cornell ED and Duke RD?
From the outside it seems that the GC is steering you to Cornell because she thinks that you have a better shot there. And I would agree with her, but it is probably not by a big margin. The odds are low for everyone to either school.

5

What do you want to study ?

Why Duke ?

Why Cornell ?

In short, not enough information offered in order to offer advice.

6

Is your high school an elite one where there is substantial history of admissions to elite colleges and where the college counselors are knowledgeable about admission likelihood at those colleges beyond looking at stats?

Although both Cornell and Duke are generally “reach for everyone” colleges, what you are paying for at an elite private high school with dedicated college counselors is their additional knowledge and/or connections that can help them direct you to the elite colleges that you are more likely to get into than others. It looks like they believe that your chance of admission is substantially better for Cornell ED than for Duke ED.

The question is, which college do you prefer?

The other question is, regarding your parents’ and grandparents’ preference for Duke, will they give lesser financial support if you choose Cornell?

7

Not sure that college counselors in elite private schools are as helpful as tends to be asserted on CC. Many seem to focus on tempering student & parents’ ambitious focus on elite target schools. Goal is 100% college placement; goal is not to get students into their dream schools.

The parents of students enrolled in elite private schools & the students may be the real catalysts.

8

@Publisher I agree with most of your comments but also believe that the counselors have motivation to get as many students as possible into elite universities. They are not just concerned about getting 100% college placement. If it is truly an elite private school, 100% college placement is a given.

9

@fl123: Absolutely not true for the most elite prep boarding schools. (Think Andover, Exeter, & St. Paul’s School.)

Priority is 100% college placement. Parents & students push for elite school admissions & do most–almost all-- of the work themselves.

10

Both are excellent options if marine biology is your subject of interest, and you can’t go wrong with either. One key difference is that Cornell’s marine lab is limited to summer terms, whereas Duke’s marine lab is also open for fall/spring semesters.

The boost from legacy status at Duke would probably outweigh geographic diversity considerations at Cornell, especially since FL is pretty well represented at most of the top universities. Duke counts grandparents, parents, and siblings for legacy status.

Good advice. I recommend applying to at least a couple of Early Action schools on top of ED to Cornell or Duke.

U Miami is a great option (deadline 11/1), as is Tulane (deadline 11/15). Neither is easy to get into, but they’re a bit less selective than Duke and Cornell.

11

Yes, elite private school. My parents, mainly my mom, wonders if the CC could have an alternative motive, by pushing for Cornell and discouraging applying to Duke. These 2 schools are my top choice, I want to go to either one. The reason this decision is so hard, is because the CC had advised the ED application will give me the best chance for acceptance. Today the CC was more specific in saying fewer Duke applicants from our school, but those applying do have better GPAs (I am at a 4.6 weighted, others GPA 4.9). Do the CC have other motivating factors that could influence a students School choice?

12

Yes, I am also applying University of Rhode Island, Univ. Maryland, and Univ. Miami. Oh and considering Boston University ED2.

13

The discussion about elite private schools college counselors, knowledge of college acceptance rates, and data collection, is that this year, lacks the affects that the COVID19 pandemic, and test optional admission will have on the # of students applying and acceptance rates. Some college blogs think the events for 2020 are providing opportunities for students who in previous year may not have been accepted to the more competitive colleges.

14

Why are you applying to the University of Rhode Island ?

15

How substantial is the GPA difference, and what does it reflect? I.e. is your unweighted GPA 0.3 lower, or did you take less rigorous courses that account for that difference?

If the GPA difference is significant in the context of your high school, then that could mean that Duke may see you unfavorably compared to those other applicants, and may not want to admit too many from one high school.

Perhaps the high school wants not only to get 100% college placement, but also as “elite” a list of college placements as possible. The counselor may believe that you have a significantly better chance at Cornell ED than Duke ED, due to the within-the-same-high-school competition at Duke, but if you do not get into an elite college ED, you will probably end up at a less elite college. From the counselor’s / high school’s point of view, placing you at Cornell looks better than placing you at Rhode Island, Maryland, Miami, or BU.

16

@Study925: Is there a special program at URI that is of interest to you ?

While the Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020 asserts that URI is “no longer an unabashed party school” and “was once ground zero for wild drinking and carousing”, Fiske still gives URI the lowest academic ranking among the 338 or so schools detailed in the guide.

17

Duke considers grandchildren as legacies, so that is an advantage.

See: https://alumni.duke.edu/benefits/alumni-admissions

Furthermore, they outright stated on their Admissions website last year that they give preference for ED. Both schools are equally difficult to get into, so choose the one you like more and hope for the best! :smile:

18

@Study925
Did you tour Duke and meet with the alumni rep at that time? If yes, what did the alumni admissions rep at Duke say about your qualifications including your activites?

For your high school counselor, my guess (and only a guess) is they have a good grasp on acceptance and with your legacy at Duke they are still not feeling like you will receive a positive outcome based on your other classmates. Are you sure they know about your legacy?

My daughter’s school also discourages applications once they see the competitive set from the school - I trust them 100% to be honest. You don’t have to listen to your high school counselor, but also remember they most likely will be writing a recommendation letter and also have relationships with the college reps. It sounds like you are a very strong student if their recommendation is Cornell, but it also sounds like you would prefer Duke and may regret not going for it. Neither is a guarantee and does seem like a tough spot for you and your family for your ED.

19

At the end of the day you need to look out for yourself. If you prefer Duke, I would apply ED and the legacy bump only helps in ED. Last year there were 500 less ED applicants to Duke and the acceptance rate went up to 21% and I would expect the acceptance rate this year to increase again. Even if you do not get accepted, they defer 10% of the ED applicants and accept 10% of those applicants deferred giving you a second bite at the apple.

Do you know if the other students are applying ED to Duke and do they have high test scores to submit? Are they applying to Pratt or Trinity (i.e. the same college as you)?

If they have higher GPAs, are submitting 75th percentile ACT/SAT scores, and have done research and you have not, you might want to consider Cornell instead which does have a slightly higher acceptance rate than Duke but you lose the legacy boost at Duke.

Unfortunately, this is one of the downsides with going to an elite private high school is many of your classmates are applying to the most competitive colleges just like you. For example, my D20 was the only senior (out of 500) who applied to Duke ED and so she did not have to compete with her HS classmates for spots in early decision.

Lastly, I don’t think colleges going test optional is neutral. If most of your classmates are submitting test scores and you are not, it will put you at a disadvantage. College admissions is a competition and all things equal, they prefer to see high test scores.

Good luck!

20

By U.S. News methodology, you will see somewhat of a selectivity difference between Duke and Cornell, with Duke receiving a selectivity rank of 5, and Cornell 23.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2198659-schools-by-u-s-news-selectivity-rank-p1.html