<p>Maybe it is all about geographic location and its impact on student experience, but how would you compare Penn versus Duke for a basic college of arts and sciences kid? Are the academics a wash between the two or does it depend on the department? How about commitment to undergraduates? Culture? General satisfaction of kids? Any thoughts on how to compare and contrast?</p>
<p>I’m going to try to be really unbiased here and say that they are essentially the same exact thing in terms of CAS academics. I, myself, was accepted to UPenn CAS early and I have a really good friend who was just accepted to Duke yesterday. He’s going to wait until Thursday to make his final decision, but I genuinely can’t convince him that Penn is better than Duke because I believe its all about personal preference. </p>
<p>When I was going through the process of deciding where I really wanted to go, I thought that the city of Philadelphia would be better suited to me than Durham and North Carolina, but that is, again, a preference. The selectivity is just about the same. The cultures are fairly similar with both having a strong fraternity presence on campus (UPenn is after all known as the social ivy). The majors at CAS as well as Duke’s CAS are all strong with renowned professors. I have multiple friends at both Duke and UPenn and they all say that they have never regretted their choice going to either one. </p>
<p>I’m going to copy bluestar7’s post on this matter so I hope that he doesn’t mind, but it should answer your question well. Best of luck for your kid in deciding (if he does indeed get the acceptance from UPenn on Thursday)</p>
<p>"1) Duke isn’t in the country. I’m from NYC. I’m not about to say that Duke is in a city or even some thriving area, but it’s certainly not in the boonies. If you grew up in the suburbs and have access to a car at Duke (or a friend with a car), life at Duke will be VERY similar to life at home. Seriously! The campus isn’t isolated. You’re just a short walk to clubs and amazing restaurants and stores when you’re on East Campus… West Campus you’ll need a car. Durham isn’t rural by any standards (at least, not mine, and as I’ve said, I’m from NYC)</p>
<p>2) Philly is obviously a thriving city, but West Philly, despite efforts to clean it up, is still not a great area to be in. Granted, Durham is rather sketchy in certain areas… I would use the term “slum” or “ghetto” to describe West Philly sooner than I would to describe Durham. On a Saturday around 2am I personally felt a little unsafe around some frats near UPenn. Granted, I’m sure if I went there every weekend I’d feel more safe, just as the first time I went to a specific club at Duke I was rather worried when walking back and now it’s no problem at all.</p>
<p>3) If you want BME, Duke is 2nd in the nation and Penn isn’t #1. That said, Penn’s all around engineering program is better than Pratt (minus BME).</p>
<p>4) On campus, both schools will have tons of amazing cultural resources and productions. Off campus, UPenn has a MARKED advantage over Duke because of Philly. </p>
<p>5) Athletics at the two schools are treated differently. I wasn’t a big sports fan until I got to Duke, and now I go to every football and basketball game. My best friends all go to Penn and they have no idea the sports schedule, don’t care, etc. I know that there have to be some avid sports junkies at Penn, but the crowds will be different (okay- they probably have an equal football crowd to us) and the competition will be different. ACC or Ivy League… However, Penn kids are VERY proud of their school, have lots of school spirit, and they have every right to. You don’t go to Penn for the sports, whereas some kids at Duke who can get into ivies choose Duke because of the sports.</p>
<p>7) There isn’t really a “jock attitude” at Duke. I mean, yes, we take our sports more seriously than other academically comparable universities. (I mean, you’re not going to find Harvard kids tenting out for a month and a half for basketball tickets). But it’s all in good fun, really. I wasn’t a sports fan, didn’t like jocks, etc, and I love the atmosphere at Duke. Maybe I secretly wanted to really get into college sports, or something. </p>
<p>8) People from counselors to my parents to alumni of Penn in my family were giving me their opinions as to the academics in both schools when I was choosing between them. Ultimately, more people felt that for what I was looking for, Duke was a better, more well rounded education. I don’t entirely agree with that though. I think the two are pretty much on par in most disciplines, but Penn has more specialized programs (which didn’t interest me at all). As happy as I am with my Duke education, I certainly wouldn’t say that the level of academics is superior to that of Penn. My cousin (who also had the Penn & Duke decision and chose Penn) finds herself very much in agreement with me.</p>
<p>As for the politics… Philly and Durham are both left-leaning cities. I don’t think Penn is AS liberal as some of the other ivies, but it certainly has that edge to it. Moreso than Duke, I would imagine. Duke has a surprisingly large liberal population, but it’s not the most politically active school, and if anything, as an entire university is rather moderate in its views. </p>
<p>However, the people that attend each school are different. Penn seems to be more of an international school than Duke. Yes-- I know kids at Duke from places like Tanzania and Brazil and if you care about international students, you’ll find them at both places… Penn has an edge though. Geographically, there’s not much difference… there are students from all states at both schools. Duke obviously has a much stronger southern presence than Penn, but both have TONS of northerners-- especially from NY and NJ. The Jewish population at Penn is pretty large… I’d be willing to guess that maybe a quarter of the students at Penn are Jewish. Duke is a more Christian school. Socioeconomic diversity at both schools is probably the same. </p>
<p>Otherwise-- Duke has better weather when it’s not hurricane season. Philly can better deal with most forms of weather than Durham can. Penn has a larger student body, one of the largest I applied to, but nothing that would make a serious difference between Penn & Duke.(How many-- 2,300? 2,500? per year. Duke is 1,600 per year). Both have big Greek systems. Penn sororities haze and Duke sororities don’t though. Penn will have a better club and bar scene than Duke will have, I don’t know if they’ll be stricter w/ IDs because it is a big city, though. </p>
<p>I recently visited Penn, and although through much of the application process I wanted Penn more than Duke (which is a result of a NY education where ivies are king), I now realized that by some twist of fate, I made the best decision in choosing to attend Duke. I realized very recently that there’s no way I’d be as happy at Penn as I am at Duke based on what I love about Duke. Maybe that’s just me saying that from a biased perspective, or maybe if I went to Penn without knowing what Duke had to offer differently, I’d be happy there."</p>
<p>D uke</p>
<p>Here are some good threads on the non-bias (non-Penn/non-Duke) forums:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/42043-duke-vs-upenn.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/42043-duke-vs-upenn.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/870731-upenn-duke.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/870731-upenn-duke.html</a>
^This thread is pretty good. Just ignore the whole UNC-Duke drama that lasts about a page or two in between hahaha</p>
<p>Here’s my opinion on these schools:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is gonna be pretty much the general concensus though:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Visit, visit, visit. That’s the best advice anyone can give if you’re choosing between these schools.</p>
<p>Don’t forget that Duke is located in the research triangle, which means access to Durham, Raleigh, and UNC-Chapel Hill. Also, Durham was recently ranked the #1 best city for health care (if you’re interested in that) and #3 city for business and careers by Forbes and businessweek. </p>
<p>Also, USNWR ranks Durham, NC as the #2 for best places to live </p>
<p>[Best</a> Places to Live 2009 - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009.html?PageNr=2]Best”>http://www.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009.html?PageNr=2)</p>
<p>I’m having trouble deciding between Duke and Stanford.</p>
<p>My advice is the same for you too, frenchhorngirl: visit. If you can’t, let me know and il try to help you, but if you talk to those at Duke who chose Duke over another school that they were also struggling with, BDD really sealed the deal.</p>