<p>I posted this in the Vandy forum. Looking for what the Dukies and Duke Parents think. </p>
<p>Daughter accepted into Vandy. Got the Chancellors scholarship. Interested in Pre-med related majors. Has visited Vandy twice. DD is also accepted into Duke. Visited Duke twice. Latest during the BDD weekend. Came back and told me she LOVES Duke. Her reaction was very subdued after the MOSAIC weekend ( no enthusiasm - maybe visiting during the MOSAIC was a mistake). Said something like didn't see Vandy as intellectual. There is no chance of Financial aid from Duke where as Vandy has the National Merit and Chancellor's scholarship. As a dad I am torn between sending to Duke vs Vandy. I can afford to pay for Duke but that also means I will not able to pay for her grad school or med school. My intention was to help her with post grad education. I am in pain trying to decide between Vandy and Duke. I am a very frugal, cost conscious saving guy. The cost of attendance difference between Vandy and Duke is about $44K/year and the difference will grow yearly given that she has a Vandy Chancellor's scholarship and Duke's avg tuition increase is 4%. If you are trying to be a doctor does it even make sense to sink money for an undergrad school ( similar to Vandy ) when it can be used for medical school. Do people in medical profession discuss reputations of the undergrad schools they went to ? If you were in my situation what would you do? </p>
<p>Duke and Vandy are pretty much peer schools, but there is a bit of a different vibe. If your daughter becomes a Baldwin Scholar, she can join the CAPE program which lets her work with people in the Duke Hospital and learn from them. I know people in it that love that program, so that is a difference on Duke’s side. But at the same time, 200k is a lot of money so unless you’re super well off or she really doesn’t like Vandy, it would be hard to pick Duke.</p>
<p>I have been in similar positions and I do not envy your dilemma. Both Duke and Vanderbilt are outstanding institutions, ones in which your daughter will always be able to take considerable pride and which will offer unending intellectual, educational, personal and professional advantages. Most indicators suggest that Duke has somewhat greater stature and excellence, although I don’t state this to initiate a serial debate on the subject – the fundamental fact is both universities are terrific and their differences are basically marginal.</p>
<p>Founded on the premises that your daughter will attend costly professional school and that Vandy is far more affordable, I would counsel saving your resources and using them for her medical education. As a very proud and deeply involved Dukie (formerly an Alumni Association VP, for example), you can image this opinion is a difficult one for me. However, your financial facts seem compelling.</p>
<p>Of course, that leaves YOU with the MOST difficult issue. Since your daughter “LOVES” Duke, but appears now to be indifferent toward Vanderbilt, and since we are all truly desirous both of making our children happy and of providing them with the best conceivable life-advatages, you may well have to “bite a rather daunting and distasteful bullet” should you opt to be uncompromising in this decision. From experience, I can tell you that won’t be easy . . . and, candidly, it can become even more unpleasant if your daughter returns from a semester or two at Vanderbilt and truly hates the experience (obviously, just the opposite could easily happen, as well). </p>
<p>On a “dad to dad” basis, I wish you good luck and I offer a concluding thought. In the long-run, there is an extremely high likelihood (although not 100 percent) that there will be essential no tangible differences, regardless your daughter’s eventual decision. The world, however, does not operate on tangible matters alone.</p>
<p>Firstly, it is wonderful for your daughter that she has such wonderful options.</p>
<p>My opinion is that there is minimal difference between Vanderbilt and Duke as far as a reputation aftereffect for med school admissions. Both schools should give her access to an assortment of great med schools. What choices for med school she ultimately will have, of course, will depend more on how she does at the chosen institution, as well as her MCAT scores, and how she fills her time otherwise.
My son, who is also entertaining med school, will be going to his undergraduate school next fall in large part because of the full tuition merit scholarship he received. He turned down a number of fine schools simply due to the significant financial disparity. That being said, there were a couple schools that he would have had a had time turning his back on (Duke being one of them). As fate would have it, he didn’t get into either of the 2 schools, so ultimately no decision had to be made. My spouse and I, however, would have supported him to go to either school if his heart was absolutely set on it, but we absolutely would have made clear that we only have so much money to spend on his education, and whatever isn’t spent on undergrad would be available to him for med school. I probably would have even gone so far as to say that I believed going where the money was being offered was truly the “smart choice”. I believe going to the school that has shown him the love, so to speak, and where he is more likely to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond will serve him well, in the end. I should add though that he DID feel a good fit with the school.
Lastly, for whatever it’s worth, I attended medical school at Vanderbilt, at it was/is a wonderful place.
Good luck to your daughter and family!</p>
<p>I would say that for somebody planning on being a doctor that, no, it does not make sense to spend that much more on an undergraduate education for somewhat equal institutions. Having said that, a large percentage of pre-med students (and other students for that matter) change their mind with regards to majors and eventual career paths several times over during their undergraduate career. In that case, your daughter may regret her decision to not go to the school that she seemingly felt a great connection with. I would leave it up to her and state the facts - that you are willing to help pay for graduate school if she goes to Vandy and takes the Chancellor’s Scholarship, but are not able to do so if she elects Duke.</p>
<p>I doubt one institution will give her that much of a leg up in med school admissions over the other, but certainly not having to worry about $250k debt after graduating med school is a HUGE difference. That is a life-changing amount and can really dictate career selections and major financial investments (e.g. purchasing a home) down the road. No, doctors once in the profession do not care about the reputations of their undergraduate schools at all. If she really wants to attend Duke and does end up going to medical school, she’ll have to make sacrifices down the road. Again, however, it’s very possible (likely even?) that she forges a new path based on her interests and aspirations. As an adult, that’s a decision she’ll have to make now and she is certainly fortunate to have a parent willing and able to foot the bill for such an expensive education. You must be proud! Good luck.</p>
<p>I offered my kids the differential in costs between what I was willing/able to pay and what they chose cost. Money would be put away in an account, deposited just as tuition payments are and made available to student upon graduation. Most all of my kid still picked the most expensive choice, so… that’s that. But I did put it to that level so they could have had six figure accounts at age 21. </p>
<p>It doesn’t pay, IMO, to force a kid into a school that s/he doesn’t want to go because when things go wrong, and oh yes, the chances are VERY good that something will go wrong, it’s any easy out and blame. When the onus is on them, it was THEIR choice, there is a bit more incentive, pride, etc to make the effort to work it out even it’s to make sure mom and dad who like the other choice better don’t have a “told you so” in there. Sounds petty, but it’s true.</p>
<p>I want to add that if it’s truly a matter of affordability, loans being taken out that parent really doesn’t think makes sense financially on part of the parent–if there is really a problem, absolutely, the affordable school. It’s not the be all to end all to get your first choice school.</p>
<p>Your DD has great choices. DS is in a similar situation. He is admitted by Duke, UPenn, and Vandy with a full-tuition scholarship. He is waiting for one more decision (I know, very late) before making his choice. We are also a full pay family and DS plans to apply for medical school down the road. So we are in the midst of same discussions in our family and I feel for everything you stated in your post. We also told DS that we will pay for med school if the fund does not go to an undergraduate degree. Reading the many helpful posts here also helped me in this process.</p>
<p>Thanks for the helpful comments. I like the idea from @cptofthehouse . Discussing the six figure in an account for medical school on graduation. Good point from @bluedog on major financial investments (e.g. purchasing a home) down the road. I will bring these up when i discuss with her. Like @Toptier said I may have to bite the bullet, after all i saved this for her and I love her more than anything else.</p>
<p>It is a tough decision when 176k is riding on it.</p>
<p>What is your home state? How expensive are med schools there?</p>
<p>There are merit scholarships being handed out in some med schools and some choose to follow the free option by electing to do an MD/PhD. The main question that I see is whether there is a chance that your D will change her mind about medicine. There are many who change their mind after they start college. </p>
<p>You can also offer the choice stating clearly that you will be able to spend X amount of dollars throughout her college years and it is her choice to borrow money at different levels or make use of scholarships. If she believes going into debt in grad school is a choice she can make then it is upto you to decide whether it is a choice you can live with. </p>
<p>@texaspg - Same great state you are from She is entirely not sure about medical school for sure. So that is a variable but if she chooses Vandy and not go to medical school, it’s not like she cannot go to a good grad school right ? or employers will look down upon her as compared to an applicant from Duke right ? With regard to borrowing money, I am afraid that she may not understand how debt will impede her lifestyle.</p>
<p>“if she chooses Vandy and not go to medical school, it’s not like she cannot go to a good grad school right ?”</p>
<p>Correct.</p>
<p>“employers will look down upon her as compared to an applicant from Duke right ?”</p>
<p>Not typically, but depends on the particular firm/industry. For science careers and grad school admissions, I wouldn’t worry about it as Vanderbilt is held in very high esteem. It’s basically only banks/management consulting firms that people on this site can be obsessed with that have a very prestige-oriented recruiting focus, and Duke is a heavier “target school” than Vanderbilt for many of these types of companies. Duke grads definitely are well represented at top grad schools and tech firms, but the same student should theoretically do just as well coming from Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>"I am afraid that she may not understand how debt will impede her lifestyle. "</p>
<p>And, yes, most high schoolers don’t understand the concept of debt and how interest compounds over time…Somebody who graduates med school debt free is in MUCH better shape for the rest of their lives than somebody who has to take out loans for the tuition. It’s not like we’re talking Duke vs. SW Louisiana State. Vanderbilt is an excellent school. Having said that, I think going to Duke is also a great choice and it will prepare her well for wherever life takes her. And she won’t have loans for undergrad, so she’s better off than most people. Not really a bad choice either way…</p>
<p>asiandad: I got an MD at Duke. As I wrote on the VU site, anything more than a nanosecond’s dithering on this point shows a failure of clear thinking. How in the world can you even suggest that this is a hard decision…two equal schools, one with a free tuition!!! Now there is a “dilemma” (NOT). Get away from this CC pseudo-debate, and have your daughter enroll at Vanderbilt. In a few years, when/if she gets into Med school, college will be irrelevant, and a few years after that, it will have zero impact on her career.(Of course we all remain attached to our college experiences). Both VU and Duke will give her the SAME caliber of education and Med School prospects. This really is a vacuous debate.</p>
<p>asiandad: Go read about the crushing debt that many Med students are accumulating!!! Your daughter has a chance to avoid that. If she cannot understand that and deal with the realities that will ambush her later, I would be seriously concerned about her judgment and priorities! A certain bit of reality contact, humility, and empathy for one’s family and their resources are highly indicative of the kind of personal qualities that are a sine qua non for a doctor! </p>
<p>My dear doctor @oliver007 . With all due respect. I don’t know if you are a dad yet. The decision is not a dilemma for me. It is clear to me. The dilemma is convincing DD that Vandy is the right choice given all the vagaries of a teenager. But I do truly appreciate your comments and perspective. </p>
<p>Then you are lucky since she can go to med school for 120k in Texas as opposed to some other states where instate tuition alone can run upto 45k per year. A good student can always find a med school to attend in Texas which is not the case with most states since they don’t have enough seats. Theoretically, you can pay for her med school in Texas and have money left over if she goes to Vandy.</p>
<p>The expectation when one does not want to go to medical school is that they will get a job, go back to business school or law or whatever else after a few years of work at which point they stop expecting parental contribution! If the idea is to go to a masters/PhD right after undergrad, then this does not work but usually you should be funded for a PhD program or else it is not worth it.</p>
<p>bluedog’s latest post is “spot on,” in my opinion. As I indicated in my first post, Vanderbilt and Duke are quite similar – and both outstanding – institutions. However, several commercial/managerial/financial fields (not single enterprises alone) seem to prefer candidates from Duke (not to suggest that Vanderbilt is at all disregarded or disrespected). If your daughter remains focused on medicine, that likely won’t be crucial. But how many undergraduates make several changes to their major and to their career objectives during their college years . . . </p>
<p>asiandad: Let me speak bluntly on a point I alluded to earlier. IF your daughter cannot be constructively persuaded (not coerced) to see the merit of a VU Scholarship over her seemingly puerile infatuation with a peer school (Duke), I would have serious concerns about her suitability for a career in Medicine, which is totally predicated on EMPATHY. If she persists in her adamance, without regard for the great privilege that VU has extended her, and for her parents sacrifices in making that possible, and insists on catering to her own immature view of the world (she is still a kid), it would alarm me…for it would raise serious questions about some narcissistic and selfish proclivities. She has an unrealistic view of Vanderbilt vs. Duke. They are totally similar in academic excellence…at both places she will be surrounded by kids more accomplished than her…without a doubt! That is the nature of these schools. She needs to get over this maladaptive false perception.</p>
She is entirely not sure about medical school for sure. So that is a variable but if she chooses Vandy and not go to medical school, it’s not like she cannot go to a good grad school right ? or employers will look down upon her as compared to an applicant from Duke right ? With regard to borrowing money, I am afraid that she may not understand how debt will impede her lifestyle.</p>