EA and ED - Are they good for students

Parents Forum
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<p>I agree that ED favors the financially fortunate.</p>

<p>But if the argument that “it’s a wild scramble to pick an ED school and kids are just trying to get into the best school in terms of rank, rep and recognition and so they ‘settle’ for NU or Vandy because HYPSM is a lottery ticket” … if someone is going to truly just try to game the system and choose an ED school when their heart really isn’t in it - then that’s on them and not a fault of the ED system itself. I’ve got little sympathy for someone who ED’s at school X to try to play the game where his heart is truly elsewhere at school Y. No one forces anyone to go ED – that’s self-induced. My kids did use ED, and it worked out beautifully. But they were ED’ing at their first choices, not trying to play a game.</p>

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<p>How is that any different in December than it is in May? ASIDE FROM FINANCES, NU, Vanderbilt and Dartmouth aren’t changing dramatically between December and May.</p>

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<p>How does EA (not REA/SCEA or ED) or early rolling admission adversely impact students’ options? Students still have until the usual deadline to matriculate. An EA or rolling admission with sufficient financial aid or scholarships can be advantageous in giving the student a safety, possibly reducing the number of lower choice other schools that s/he needs to apply to (it is also advantageous to the lower choice other schools that the student foregoes applying to, since the student would have been less likely to attend such a school).</p>

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<p>I can only speak for ourselves but I’ve been very grateful for EA. My D has been highly stressed about this process. She’s a passionate and gifted learner but does not like academic competition at all. I encouraged her to apply to her safeties EA because I knew it would relax her and it really did. In fact, one of her safeties has been so attentive since her acceptance last month that it’s quickly rising in the ranks of possibilities.</p>

<p>My daughter also applied to her dream school ED but was deferred. Honestly, I’m grateful (D not so much lol.) We were really nervous about it and wouldn’t have allowed it if we thought she had more than a passing shot at getting in. The only real positive about her applying early is that the deferment has opened her up to the charms of other schools where prior, she was just too blinded by the one. Personally, I’m not a fan of ED. Locking down 17 and 18 year olds in the beginning of their senior year just seems rash. Not giving families a chance to shop colleges financially, not cool.</p>

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<p>Is there any information out there as to what percentage of the college-bound population actually takes advantage of ED? I know when my D1 was applying to schools, there was only one student in her large group that applied ED to a school. That student was deferred in the ED round and then rejected in the RD round, and ended up at one of the many other schools she applied to after she wasn’t accepted ED. Of the rest of the kids, most hadn’t made up their minds where they wanted to go by the ED deadlines. Some weren’t willing to give up on HYPSM to apply ED at another school and some had top choice schools that didn’t have ED. I don’t know of anyone who didn’t apply ED for financial reasons, but that might be because we come from a fairly affluent area. D2 is a senior now and none of her friends have applied ED, although her group doesn’t tend to be top students like D1’s group were.</p>

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<p>I really can’t see any problem with EA or with rolling admissions. Both of my kids used that, and it was 100% beneficial. For lots of kids, it provides really useful information. That deferral (or rejection!) of an early application serves as a wake-up call to the kid and to parents and counselors, providing a chance to recalibrate the application strategy before the deadline. And, of course, when a kid is accepted early someplace, it’s a huge stress reducer, it provides a concrete, specific reference point for evaluating other colleges and their financial aid offers, and it reduces – sometimes to 0 – the number of additional applications the kid has to file. If the kid is not bound and committed to the early college, it’s hard to see any negatives in it for the applicant.</p>

<p>Sure, kids can change their minds between October and December, and between December and May, but that argument is often vastly overstated. Most kids aren’t dealing with an infinite set of college choices, or even, really, with dozens of potential colleges. A kid’s real universe may well be 10-20 colleges, or fewer, any one of which would probably be OK. It’s silly to suggest that most kids are incapable of forming a fairly stable preference order early in their senior years, especially given that there’s no real cost to anyone if the preference order isn’t perfect from an objective standpoint.</p>

<p>The only strong argument against EA is that it disadvantages students who don’t use it, who may be poorer, and who definitely are less sophisticated. (Some sort of early application strategy is basically universal among well-advised students, even in the – rare – case that the student decides not to submit any early applications.) I am skeptical about that, since I think admissions staffs can recognize such students in their RD pool. And in any event, for most of the colleges we are talking about here (like Northwestern) the number of unsophisticated, poorly advised students with a realistic shot at admission is pretty small. And when you get to colleges that are meaningfully less selective, the supposed disadvantage pretty much disappears.</p>

<p>ED is another story. Not another story entirely, but the “binding” aspect introduces some elements into the game that are troubling. First of all, I believe only the hypersophisticated understand exactly how (un)binding ED is. The result is that ED programs effectively screen out lots of high-financial-aid-need applicants, even if that’s based in part on a misunderstanding of the rules. Second, even if the rules are understood completely, an applicant knows that he or she will have to make a decision on a favored college without seeing financial aid offers from a wide range of schools (other than maybe EA ones). That’s a tough dilemma for a family that is very cost-sensitive. So the bottom line is that ED is affirmative action for the rich (who don’t care) and a few hypersophisticated risk-takers.</p>

<p>ED also does force a potentially binding decision on kids on October, and a really binding one in December. So the additional information it provides comes at a cost.</p>

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<p>I agree completely. As some have explained here in detail, ED has real downsides for students and their families, especially from a financial point of view. But EA? None whatsoever that I can see. Could someone who claims EA hurts students explain why they think that?</p>

<p>And, yes, I’m sure there are some kids who just know at 17 years old that NU (or another ED school) is for them, no matter what and no matter the cost. But given the real downsides to ED to others and to the system as a whole, is it really worth it for those relatively few kids? The answer is no to me.</p>

<p>One last point. My son just applied and was accepted to some EA schools, several of which he is excited about attending. But there is one school in particular that is his top school by a slight margin, but which he didn’t apply to because it only offered ED. Although it was a close call, he decided to apply to that school RD and forgo the extra admission boost that ED would have given him so he’d have options, financial and otherwise, before having to make a final decision. But the thing is, it’s still his top school and he’ll likely go there if he gets in. But now, the RD round is much more competitive and he could be on the outside looking in simply because the school just filled 40% of its class with kids financially able to make the ED leap, leaving him scrambling for significantly fewer seats. So ED plainly increases the anxiety for RD applicants. It may also cost this school a great student who’d love to go there (and who is just as talented as the students admitted ED), but who just couldn’t make that ironclad ED commitment in the fall of his senior year before all options were on the table.</p>

<p>ED and restrictive EA are great for schools, but bad for students.</p>

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<p>"The majority of slots (about 1,100) are still available in the RD round. There are many colleges out there for which that is essentially their entire class (e.g. UChicago has maybe what, 1,300 students per class?). Pretend the target class size is 1,100 total so the ED/RD breakdown wouldn’t even matter. "</p>

<p>Wildcatalum, it’s not the number of slots available that is ever the issue. It’s the number of students competing for those slots. When nearly half the seats are taken before the application due date, for the highly selective schools, there are many, mnay more applicants going for the seats that are left reducing the chances for those going RD drastically. If you look at who applies early as a group, rest be assured, that the group tends to be the more privileged kids.</p>

<p>If the information were more accurately and universally given to kids and parents, ED would not be as problematic. As it is, the misinformation that is out there can be mind boggling. Nearly as bad as the fin aid/scholarship situations. The parents and students are foremost responsibel, but I can tell you that I am very disappointed with most of the guidance counselors involved in the process. Incorrect, absolutely WRONG info given, incomplete info, and gatekeeping, false assurances. Many schools simply do not have the staff and time to give to the parents, and the parents just don’t do due diligence. What gets me is that it’s not just the parents who don’t care or know about other aspects fo child care that fall into that situation, but some parents who do, have clearly no clue. The peer pressure and momentum is tremendous. </p>

<p>I’ve watched ED grow into a huge thing, especially in up scale school districts. At one time, it was considered a very serious decision to make. Now I see kids and families trying to pick an ED school because that’s part of what one does. ??? is my reaction. As a result that are more problems that occur as more people, some who don’t have the info and should not be doing this are going ED. </p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong. It’s a great thing when it works out. Only one of my kids applied ED (and it was a disaster, a story unto itself, and yes, I let myself believe a school counselor who made a mistake so, and did not do my own research, took her word as she was a former college admissions person who had done thousands, tens of thousand apps. My fault absolutely–but believe me, I am more informed and knowledgeable and still stumbled into a pitfall), as none of the others have and are likely to have a first choice school. EA was wonderful. But both ED and EA pools consist primarily of kids lucky enough to have someone pushing them along, informed kids, and kids usually from the upper socio economic families, which leaves most of those NOT in such a situtation in the RD pool where the odds of getting accepted at some schools is a lot smaller because there are more applicants for each acceptance. </p>

<p>Early is not always the way to go either, if you have a student who is doing better and better as he goes along and the senior year is when he is finally making the foray into the more difficult courses and his GPA was not so hot freshman year. One of mine fit that profile, and we did not apply early. That 4.0 senior year with the most difficult courses that school offere made a great finishing touch to someone who started out not even taking honors and barely gettting a 3.0 freshman year. I don’t think he would have gotten into a number of schools that he did as his test scores were average (1500 three part SAT) and his GPA was not quite a 3.5 uw. But that upward trend did count very heavily in his favor, especially as it culminated in courses that were very difficult. He surpassed his GC’s expectations in acceptances and even garnered some merit money which was unexpected. Also, if the student want to give the SAT or ACT another big push, it might be beneficial to wait until the app file is complete. SOme kids do bloom later, and it does help when that bloom is occurring even as many of the kids are hitting senior slump.</p>

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<p>Harvard admitted 992 in REA. </p>

<p>From past experience, they claim 94% yield from such admits and hence will only admit about 950 more during RD. </p>

<p>Not a whole lot of difference between REA and ED, at least for Harvard.</p>

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<p>Yes, I know, the problems of Short Hills and Winnetka are terrible to behold - almost like how awful it is to receive a postcard from Harvard because it clearly means that Harvard is dying to have you, specifically, come there.</p>

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<p>Great point, texaspg. So they are essentially admitting even more of their class early than NU is. Harvard must be desperate!! ha ha</p>

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<p>I felt ED was an advantage to our family with high-need. There are only so many “need-blind”, meet full need, no or low loan schools out there. First two kids were one and done with ED admissions, no regrets. Third kid was deferred and ultimately wait-listed at his ED school. He ended up with a great package at another school and declined the waitlist. He could not be happier where he ended up and is majoring in something he didn’t anticipate. Ultimately, so very happy he was not admitted to the ED school.</p>

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<p>There is a big difference between REA and ED for Harvard. A student accepted to Harvard has that acceptance in the pocket, but can freely apply RD to any other schools and programs and look for the best deal. I have a friend whos son had a number of choices on the table, Some BA/MD acceptances, some full rides, some special programs …or full pay Harvard which came as a huge surprise and financial slap in the face as the family income fell under the threshhold that Harvard said would get pretty much full fin aid. Well, not if the income comes from investment properties, that were the golden retirement nest egg for this family. Sell a unit and pay Harvard, and that reduces the already modest income the family was getting and reduces the retirement fund. Get a mortgage against a unit, and again, repayment of that loan comes out of that modest income. So, yes, it pays to have choices. </p>

<p>EA and ED both have a lot of positive things but it has some big time disadvantages too, mostly for those who need financial aid. For one my kids, EA was particularly wonderful as it served as a good barometer of what acceptances and not were to come. To get accepted to School A and B, deferred from C, EA really can define your RD list in more detail, so even the denials can help. </p>

<p>I do recommend, urge anyone applying early to do ALL of their apps and have them ready to go just in case and have a shredding party if they are not needed. You do NOT want to be filling out apps in the wake of early denials and deferrals, and yes, it can make for a somber winter holiday season and an unhappy New Year pushing a “send” button that does not work at the drop of the ball on 12/31. You don’t want to drop THAT ball.</p>

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<p>Kids are applying to too many schools these days. I think it would be natural for schools to respond by relying more on early decision ( or early action, which would at least show that the school is high on the student’s list).</p>

<p>The effects of early decision on financial aid are worrisome. Harvard, for one, tried to address this by eliminating ED for a few years. But administratively, getting all the applications at once was burdensome, I’m sure, and they have reinstituted it.</p>

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<p>In general, what are the schools telling applicants? My son considered ED. However, the one school that he felt strongly about made it very clear at open house- (paraphrase) "We offer ED, and it is intended is for students who have been dreaming about this, have been wearing school colors, made their parents get up early to be here, etc . . . " Since he did not fall under this, the application was made RD. </p>

<p>The school really wants students who want to be there. What is wrong with that?</p>

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<p>Northwestern University has this peculiar habit to report growth year after year by announding a large increase based on the prior year “reviewed” numbers. I assume that they discard the incomplete or withdrawn applications for tyhe prior year but include them in the last year total. They have been doing that for a number of years.</p>

<p>Here’s what they reported for the Class of 2017.</p>

<p>2,651 Applications
881 Admitted
33.23% Rate. </p>

<p>Obviously, 2863 over 2651 is hardly a 16 percent increase.</p>

<p>Source: [The</a> Daily Northwestern : Northwestern admits largest, most diverse early decision applicants](<a href=“http://dailynorthwestern.com/2012/12/18/campus/northwestern-admits-largest-most-diverse-early-decision-applicants/]The”>http://dailynorthwestern.com/2012/12/18/campus/northwestern-admits-largest-most-diverse-early-decision-applicants/)</p>

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<p>If inquiring minds want to know, here is the official number for the Class of 2016 at NU
Source: [2012-13</a> First-time, first-year (freshman) admission, Common Data Set, University Enrollment - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://enrollment.northwestern.edu/common-data/2012-13/c.html]2012-13”>http://enrollment.northwestern.edu/common-data/2012-13/c.html)</p>

<p>For the Fall 2012 entering class:
Number of early decision applications received by your institution
2201
Number of applicants admitted under early decision plan
811</p>

<p>The number for the Class of 2017 will be enlightening when NU releases its CDS.</p>

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<p>Not entirely true. ED and restrictive EA are great for schools, but albeit bad for some students, it can be exceptional for others. </p>

<p>Without the original binding “bite” there are few downfalls of applying ED. The only opportunity lost is to apply to a different ED school. If a clear first choice is known, and the financial package works, why push the agony of choices farther? Students from specific subgroups also benefit tremendously from the extra attention given to early applications, and especially for the groups known to be in the “reaching” efforts of wealthy schools. </p>

<p>REA, in turn, allows a student to play the RD rounds freely … so why is that bad, especially considering the admission rates “bonus.” </p>

<p>Oh wait, there might be something “bad” stemming from ED/REA … and that relates to the students who do not believe that applying early pays dividends and concentrate on the RD group at selective schools.</p>

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<p>Harvard now has restrictive early action, not early decision. Restrictive means that the student agrees not to apply early action to other US private schools, or early decision anywhere before the Harvard early action notification is given.</p>

<p><a href=“https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/application-timeline/restrictive-early-action[/url]”>https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/application-timeline/restrictive-early-action&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Note that Harvard also says this:</p>

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<p>It does mean not being able to apply to other private schools EA, so the student may have to choose applying to one school REA versus potentially several schools EA among the private schools on his/her application list. Of course, this is usually much less of a tradeoff than the one involved with ED (and there may be no tradeoff if the only private school on the application list with an early admissions program is the REA one).</p>

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<p>Texaspg’s point, though, was that given Harvard’s yield, Harvard essentially does the same thing - it fills half its class with ED.</p>

<p>Personally, I could see a university deciding to fill all of its class ED. If that’s what they want to do, I don’t see a problem with it. It’s clear that they aren’t sacrificing high-stats to do so, so it’s not as though they are taking “dummies” just to fill the beds.</p>