This year, in early action alone, Fordham applications were up 10% compared to last year, with more than 42,000 total applications received. The students who were admitted as part of the early action program had a mean GPA of 3.78 (out of 4.0) and a middle 50% SAT range of 1260-1400 on a 1600 scale.
I want to clarify my post above. Sorry for the confusion. EA applications were up 10% from last year. EA stats were mean GPA of 3.78 and admitted EA students 50th percentile SAT range of 1260-1400. (25% below and 25% above).
The total applications this year to Fordham (EA plus RD) were in excess of 42,000.
Hopefully, they will increase their yield, too.
Yield is a complex issue. I doubt it improves and in fact I think it will get worse, since the number of applications has jumped so high. 10 years ago the applications to Fordham were under 15,000 a year. It has essentially tripled since then.
Fordham tuition has also gone from 28k a year ten years ago to 45k a year. Total cost to attend Fordham is now over 60k a year. Its insidious. Yes, financial aid has improved, but much of that is offered in “student loans.”
Frankly, I caution anyone about taking on more than 30k debt over four years for an undergraduate degree, especially if they are planning on going to grad school or professional school.
The common app is responsible for a lot of the rise in applications, and many people apply to Fordham who are not that serious about attending Fordham, or they get gapped…and have to decline an offer of acceptance because the aid package is unacceptable.
Room and Board at Fordham has also risen to over 15k a year.
These are scary numbers. Some Fordham students come from uber wealth and they either get the best scholarships (because their schools give them the support and they prep for the SAT for all four years…), or they simply stroke the checks and move on. It leaves a lot of middle income people, even those whose family income is low 100’s, in the lurch…not many folks have 60k in extra money laying around, and if their kid gets below a 1400 SAT its likely they will depend on financial aid, and as stated above, that is a mix of grants and student loans. A conundrum.
Ivy League Schools have billions in their endowments. They can offer anyone who is admitted an debt free education. Fordham is not in that situation. Its endowment of 600 million would be depleted in short order if they offered everyone debt free education, subsidizing all tuition need.
So Fordham loses a high percentage of accepted students and gets a low yield. But they know that and it goes into the matrix when they figure out who is coming and who isnt and how many rooms they need for resident students.
Fordham does well in getting locals who will commute and get the commuter’s allowance. Still very pricey, but for many of those students. it gives them a chance at the highest rated school on their list.
Good point. Agree. Fordham projects an increase in tuition at 3%-4% per annum. Yikes!
Fordham has a lot of flex in terms of filling their dorms with that large commuter population that are eager to go to that school. They can offer varying numbers of kids housing as it is available. I knew a number of kids who were anxiously awaiting whether they would get a room or not. Their parents could pay for the room/board, but they were accepted as commuters pending room availability. This happens every year.
You must be blessed to live in a high income section of New York with parents sending kids to private schools. While that region has traditionally sent lots of kids to Fordham, and Fordham depends on them for revenue stream, the reality of the situation is the rest of the country is not in that realm…
I dont have the stats or FAFSA forms for Fordham obviously, but I would venture a guess that a high percentage of the 42,000 applications they got this year were from people of modest means, middle class and hoping for a whopper of a financial aid package or scholarship.
Its well known that Marquette offers much better financial aid packages and is at least 10k cheaper than Fordham…just saying.
Doesn’t help that we just built a huge building in the middle of Manhattan.
While the high price of Fordham is bad, what angers me is how it’s used. If you go to the JMH building at Rose Hill, every single floor except the first and the Math floor look like they are from an abandoned, run down building. The ceiling leans, there’s wall damage, etc. Not to mention there’s barely any good internet there, which is funny because that’s where the Computer Science department is.
Here at LC a lot of the McMahon Hall amenities are very outdated and old looking. Yeah, they built a new building with a modern gym, a movie room, and cafeteria, but guess what? I have to be invited by a freshman to go there, even though I am a resident.
Then there’s the whole idea of the LC cafeteria being a money pit. Every one of my friends at public universities gets cheap or free food with some sort of meal swipes or a one time fee or I don’t know, something simple. Here we’re confused with 10+ different payment plans for food which are all too expensive. I visited a friend at Boston University—also an urban private school, and she was able to feed me by just swiping her ID. Bam, we had infinite food. Yes, I know we have kitchens, and we all use them, but still! The McKeon freshmen don’t have them, so what’s a low income student who came here on scholarship supposed to do?
I am sure the issue is much more complex than this and I am not an accountant or expert in Fordham finances, but I’ve been to other expensive schools and well, they look and work nicer.
Can I make a comment here about the internet? My DD has rung up lots of overages on her cellphone because the WIFI is spotty. Checked with her roomies and they concur. It seems to be pretty bad all over campus. Fix this, please, Fordham.
I also think the numbers are up because they offered a fee waiver to anyone who expressed interest. In doing so, they get more applications, accept the traditional number of applicants and then it looks like they are more selective for all the rankings. I agree with many of the comments here.
@Marc12 IMO Fordham is set up to have low yield numbers. And I don’t think the reasons for it are bad. First, Fordham has EA not ED. Therefore, students accepted early are not obligated to attend. At my sister’s college (also a very well regarded school) they take half of the class binding ED so half of the class has close to a 100% yield. So when you compare the yield to schools that take a lot of students ED, Fordham will not look strong. It is a policy choice to have EA not ED admissions . Second, unlike some schools (“Tufts syndrome”) Fordham does not reject students who are well above the average (and deemed unlikely to attend) to improve their yield. Instead from what I can tell (I don’t work in admissions or have any inside knowledge) the school tends to accept all qualified candidates and attempts to lure some students who fall well above the typical profile to Fordham with merit money.
@mexusa - This has been an ongoing problem. My daughter is a sophomore. There is no wifi in the library. There is no wifi in the dorm. There is no wifi. I watch her data and she apologizes all the time when it gets close to going over (we haven’t YET). It’s a joke. She’s pre-health and she goes to the library because the girls on her floor are constantly screaming, so she goes there for peace and the wifi will stop while she’s studying. Then she has to study on her phone instead of the laptop. Not good for the eyes. I may have to invest in one of those things that uses cell service for the laptop that will cost me about $30 a month for her to use the laptop in the library (or dorm).
It’s worse now than last year. Wifi was spotty at best but since there are more freshman, (and an added dorm) they probably didn’t increase the bandwidth. Lord knows they didn’t increase the number of classes needed for these kids, causing them to get shut out (and create Saturday classes).
Room selection should be interesting this year. They may have increased the number of freshman housing, but they didn’t think this one through and didn’t increase the number of upperclass housing (or bandwidth). It was a nightmare last year when my daughter was a freshman. She’s dreading it this year. (BTW-she’s currently in a freshman dorm, thanks to post-housing.) Loyola is a beautiful dorm, but it should have been made upperclassman housing.
@Soverigndebt - I like the comment “students come from uber wealth” That is so true. My daughter sees this first hand. Heck, even I see it. I was parked outside her dorm last month and there was a PORSCHE parked next to my truck. I’m used to seeing the BMWs, Mercedes and other top vehicles. But that one just blew me away. My daughter asked about “Canada Goose” coats since she sees many girls on campus wearing them. I looked them up and saw they average $700+. Her friends have multiple homes. She comments that she’s the poorest of her group of friends. And she’s right. We are. These kids can pay full freight but like you said, they come from schools that offer the prep classes and support for four years. We didn’t. They are on full rides and we’re paying A LOT out of pocket, which is hard. I saved, but it’s a big chunk of change that I have to pay. Her friend had Fordham as their first choice and couldn’t go because of financials. This kid is super smart, but Fordham couldn’t give them the money. Their stats were on par with her friends on full rides (and rich) but this kid wasn’t in the same income category as they were and had to go elsewhere that was (in the long run) a better decision and gave more money.
Mr Jeff Gray is in charge of Student Services, which includes Dorms. Ask him about WIFI. Copy Fr. McShane.
Lots of kids use cells for internet and its not the phone calls and texts, its the data…which is often pictures or downloading large documents. There are computers in the library, but unfortunately not enough. The world is changing and EVERYTHING is now digital…which is another topic…on how that effects industries and jobs.
The people who are losing are mostly the middle class. Low income students only come if they have huge scholarships.
Its not just Fordham…its every private school doing this. Its a big problem nationally. Though some schools like Marquette are cheaper and have better financial aid than Fordham.
The problem is with so many applications and only so much room at Fordham, admissions and others feel like they can be somewhat callous about the entire problem…and not always helpful.
We emptied the piggy bank too and my kid took some loans…but within the national average at graduation. Then grad school. But working now and doing very well. So its a balancing act with outcome versus how much debt you can reasonably take on, or how deep you can dig in your piggy bank.
Its a wonderful school…but it is concerning as tuition rises yearly and now getting out of reach for so many.
It is true, as pointed out above, that the EA process is different than ED kids. And that a lot of kids apply RD with Fordham not being their top choice. For every family its a subjective analysis and cost/benefit examination.
My kid was frustrated seeing kids on huge scholarships not having to work hard to keep it, and all because of an SAT score…she worked herself to death, making every moment count because she was taking on debt and because she knew how competitive the job market is in NYC and other places. It paid off, thank goodness.
I wish I had a better answer.
And yes, there are stories of kids with great stats who go elsewhere and kids who dont need the money at Fordham with huge scholarships, often from longstanding “feeder schools.” Infuriating.
Fordham is good and I like it, don’t get me wrong (maybe my rant earlier made it seemed that way), but by rising tuition and not matching aid or quality of service with it, they’re not heading the right way.
And @MomTheChauffer, I get what you say. My parents are both teachers, and I am here on scholarship. They are able to send me some money, but mostly for food. My friends are mostly all well off. One that I roomed with had a father that managed two hedge funds (so our apartment was nice and had a big HDTV!) and the other sent him thousands of dollars per semester to spend, on top of the tuition. It was weird for me and I had to decline to go out many times simply because I could not afford the $50+ “going out” meant. Then there’s all the Chinese noveau-riche international students.
I have no bad feelings towards my friends, they are both very hard working. One is the only person in my year to complete the rigorous 5 year engineering program with Columbia. It’s just a culture shock.
This may sound bad but if your daughter wants more “down to earth” people to meet, the commuter students are very nice people.
mata:
I have long been a proponent of dumping all academic scholarships and going to financial aid. But I get a lot of heat from parents here who feel “entitled” because their kid did well on the SAT and they somehow “deserve” the scholarship for hard work. The SAT has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with hard work in my opinion. It has to do with the privilege of going to certain private schools who prep there students endlessly from 6th grade forward on the exam and they have better teachers and smaller classes…all of which benefits those same privileged kids who dont need the money. Meanwhile the scholarship funds are poured on people who dont need them and the ones who need it most dont get it because they are…well…50 points or so short of scholarship level.
The Ivy League does this…no academic scholarships and only financial aid. To me, if you are smart enough to be accepted at Fordham then everyone should be equal and then give the best aid to those who need it. But again, I am in the minority on this viewpoint.
*their
A few comments on a topic on which everyone is certainly entitled to have his/her own opinions…
.
-Unfortunately Fordham does not have the endowment necessary to be need blind and/or meet every student’s full financial needs. This means that difficult choices need to be made in this area and sometimes it is hard to figure out how the money is allocated. None of us are in the room and we can only hope that the people making these decisions keep the best interests of Fodham in mind. There will always be people who feel they should have received more aid and/or that others should have received less however that will be the case with a system is almost by definition imperfect since it can’t meet everyone’s full needs.
-I am a proponent of merit aid as it does help to bring a number of high quality students to campus who otherwise would likely have gone elsewhere. Many many schools offer merit aid aid so Fordham is hardly alone in doing this to compete for top students. There are tons of people I know at Fordham who would not qualify for a lot of aid but could not have come to Fordham without merit scholarships.
As someone who is on academic/merit scholarship, I can’t really be against it… but I see what you mean.
I am hispanic (first generation), but come from a well educated middle class background, so the SAT wasn’t too hard to get 2100+ for me after reading the guides here on CC (I was in a school prep course but it didn’t help much). I was a good high school student but not the best—I’ve always described myself as an A- person, and I am happy with that. My ECs were lacking and I had no volunteering; I liked going home straight after school so I could do my work and have fun. I would say I had a stress-free high school career.
Still, because I did well on the PSAT/SAT and I am Hispanic, I was awarded full tuition. When I talked to other kids (awarded or not), they definitely worked harder than me and did way more stuff, especially ECs. Here at CC we all know having a laundry list of ECs isn’t helpful, but most people still believe that and stressed themselves with it while I was napping or playing video games.
Even now at Fordham I am not stressed or anything, although that has to do with the fact that Comp Sci department here is incredibly laid back. I have 2-3 weeks to do projects.
So yeah, I can see why someone else being awarded just because they scored a few points higher on one exam is frustrating. But Fordham is not in the position to not give merit scholarships simply because it still lacks a high amount of high quality graduates that go on to make Fordham actually known outside the tri-state area or donate a lot of money. Yes I know Fordham is a good school and successful people come from it, but still. It’s not “there” yet compared to say, top 30 schools. That affects its ranking, which (like it or not) has a huge impact. And IMO there is no other way to attract top students.
My main issue is that Fordham seems to disregard anyone who isn’t a top student or already wealthy, happily putting them in debt.