EA or RD?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
21

The ND AOs routinely assist students in deciding REA vs RD, so your S should definitely seek out the opinion of his school’s AO next fall. In another post I did similar calculations to @trackmbe3, but took it a step further. When trying to ascertain whether there is an advantage to applying REA (or ED, etc.) at a given school, one has to take into account the proportion of recruited athletes and legacies, among other groups, that are in the REA cohort.

Here is the gist of my post on this thread: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2099047-colleges-with-a-service-orientation-p1.html This thread has some other good info as well.

Class of 2022 REA rate of acceptance was 25% (1636/6598), total acceptance rate was 18% (3608/20371). That makes the RD acceptance rate 14%, (1972/13773). 2,070 students enrolled in class of 2022. Class of 2022 stats: https://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/ (not sure why @trackmbe3 has different numbers)

If the total class composition is similar to 2021s (haven’t seen this for 2022 yet), there were 24% legacies and 8% recruited athletes, the majority of which go thru REA, but we don’t know exact proportions. We also don’t know the % of other hooked applicants in REA, e.g., questbridge, trustee recommended students, professors’ kids, URMs.

If we apply 100% of the legacies and recruited athletes to REA, to make up for the other hooked components we don’t have, that equals 663 students. (24% x 2070 enrolled + 8% x 2070). That leaves 973 REA accepted students of the 6598, for a non-hooked acceptance rate of 15%, vs RD acceptance rate of 14%. One can certainly make the case that there are likely even more hooked applicants in the 973, so it seems there is no bump at Notre Dame for REA vs. RD. At least with ND’s REA, one can apply EA to other schools, so one only loses the opportunity to apply ED1 at another school. Just some things to think about, I would certainly defer to the opinion of your S’s AO when the time comes.

2021 class composition link https://news.nd.edu/news/class-of-2021-intellectually-and-globally-diverse-dedicated-to-service-and-leadership/

22

Here are the stats for the class of 2022: https://news.nd.edu/news/class-of-2022-intellectually-and-globally-diverse-dedicated-to-service-and-leadership/

23

@Mwfan1921 On the REA vs. Regular Decision stats, one thing to bear in mind is the deferral of applicants from REA to RD. ND admissions did not disclose the number of deferrals in the 2022 REA round, but in prior years it was around 900-1000 deferred to RD.

For the sake of doing the math, let’s say that 900 REA applicants were deferred into RD. The adjusted REA acceptance rate would be probably closer to 28.7% – i.e., 1,636 REA accepts / (6,598 REA apps minus 900 deferrals). Likewise, those 900 deferrals then get added to the Regular Decision pool, so now you’re looking at a regular pool acceptance rate of about 13.4% – i.e., 1,972 RD accepts / (13,773 RD apps + 900 deferrals).

Now, as you noted, in the REA round you’re looking at a greater proportion of those applicants having some sort of “hook” – such as Legacy status (22% of the Class of 2022 had a parent/step-parent that graduated from ND) or athlete. We can’t assume that every legacy applicant applies early, but I bet a large chunk of the legacy apps do end up applying REA to signal to ND that they’re serious about enrolling if they get in. For the record, I believe the legacy advantage at ND is used more to protect ND’s yield rate, in much the same way as schools like Vanderbilt, Rice, Emory and Wash U use ED1 to protect their yield rates. I think it was a poster named @northwesty who used the term “feather on the scale” to describe how legacy can benefit an applicant, and I think nowadays, that’s probably a more realistic view of how legacy status helps at ND.

As for athletics, at Notre Dame there are slightly more than 900 student-athletes, so by my math, that’s roughly 225 athletes per class – comprised of full scholarship recruits, partial scholarship recruits, and “preferred status” recruits who aren’t scholarship material but who would be a valuable walk-on for their particular sport and someone that the coach would lobby for during the admissions process. 225 athletes / 2,070 entering class = 10.9% of the entering class has some level of athletic skill that distinguishes them from the typical applicant. I would bet that at least 90% of ND’s athletes apply in the REA round, as that is standard practice at all highly selective schools that offer a major D1 athletic program and an early admissions deadline.

I’ve been looking at ND’s stats for about 2+ years now, and my best guess on REA vs. RD is that if you’re not legacy or an athletic talent that a coach would lobby for, you should shoot to have about a 35 ACT / 1540 SAT and a weighted GPA of 4.2 or higher with evidence of rigorous coursework. No matter what round you apply in, the Common App essay and ND supplemental essays have to be good.

24

@GeronimoAlpaca Good analysis, all makes sense. ND published last year’s recruited athletes at 8%, and some of the coaches don’t guarantee the spot unless applying ED. Regardless, there probably is some small advantage to high stats applicants in REA at ND. The good thing at ND, as many CC posters have noted, that the regional AOs really help students decide which round maximizes their chances, not many schools will have that conversation.

25

Would anyone mind giving me advice on my daughters chance?
32 ACT, 4.3 W 4.0 UW, over 300 hours of quality service work, represents the you at our parish (sits on council) 9 AP classes (at graduation) ranked 1 in her class. applied EA. Her homeroom teacher is a ND grad and looked over her essays. They were pretty darn good, especially the “take a risk” (I am her mom though ?) SADD CLUB board chair, All girl catholic school. I know her ACT isn’t super high so please be kind. We are just hoping they do a holistic review of her app. Thank you everyone in advance!! God Bless

26

@HM0527 I’m applying this fall, so I can’t pretend to be any sort of expert on anyone’s admissions chances – my own or your daughter’s! :slight_smile: I will say that your daughter’s grades and all those AP classes show a rigorous schedule, and #1 class rank shows she is a diligent worker. And in the past, Don Bishop, the enrollment/admissions head at ND, has been quoted as saying that grades in high school are something like 2X more predictive of success in college than standardized scores.

On the ACT, the one thing I wanted to mention is that when I attended a recent “ND On The Road” presentation at a local high school in my area, the regional admissions rep said that ND is super-scoring both the SAT and the ACT this year. (In past years, ND only looked at the highest ACT composite.) Hopefully in your daughter’s case, the super-scoring might end up helping slightly “round up” her overall score if she took the ACT more than once.

Best of luck to your daughter. I have not finished my application yet, so now I’m stressing that you wrote “applied EA.” Maybe I should quit posting on here and work on my supplements!

27

@GeronimoAlpaca hello! Thank you for replying. She has not taken another ACT. She’s worried about going down in the other sections and being judged on it. This is all new to us (she’ll be the first generation) I think she applied EA because she just couldn’t wait. We are dropping her off at a Day Host Day soon and hopefully the current student she’s with for the day will give her some advice. Do you know if her application is complete and sent if she can send in another score? Are you applying EA or RD?? I wish you lots of luck and I send positive vibes your way.

28

The registration deadline for the October ACT is September 28. Your daughter should take it and try to improve her score. ND does super score and she will not be judged on her individual scores if section decline. She can always decide to send just one set of scores too. My daughter is a sophomore and only had 5 AP’s in HS. She did have a 34 ACT.

29

@FarmerMom i am strongly encouraging her to retake it. All of her other “stuff” is so strong. So much pressure ? I’m praying that ND looks at whole package as it’s explanied on the website. These kids work their tails off and to be simply overlooked because of a point or two is difficult. I really appreciate your reply.

30

@FarmerMom one more thing. Would it be intrusive for my D to reach out to the AO for her school and express her deep desire and explain “I know my ACT score isn’t as high as most” blah blah blah…when her counselor read my D essays she laughed and almost cried and said she was going to tell the AO to make sure you read them to the very end.

31

@HMO527 “Would it be intrusive for my D to reach out to the AO for her school and express her deep desire and explain “I know my ACT score isn’t as high as most” blah blah bla”

32 ACT is 98th percentile, I would not say anything about it. Once she makes the “cutoff” they will look at other things like essays, recommendations and ECs.

32

@socaldad2002 I’m sorry. I hope I didn’t sound naive. It was an honest question. My concern is that a 32 is way below the “cutoff” that’s all. I know 1,000’s of other kids are in her shoes. Thank you for your advice.

33

I would reach out to the admission counselor at ND, let your daughter give her specifics and ask him if she should go REA or RD. They are very helpful. She should not mention that she believes her score is low, it a good score just not for ND. Additionally she has made no attempt to better it. She really needs to retake. As a baseline, my daughter was deferred REA with a 34 ACT and was accepted in the RD pool. My concern would be getting completely rejected in REA and not deferred. If you are deferred you have many opportunities to continue your contact with the Admissions Counselors.

34

@FarmerMom thank you for your response. She has already applied EA. I don’t necessarily think 32 is too low for ND if they truly base the decision on the “holistic” review. With that being said, I mentioned to my D what you and another suggested about retaking it and she is going to.

35

OP, I’m glad she s taking it again. She’s first generation, right? That should help. All the best to her!

36

@suzy100 yes she is. Husband went to college but did not graduate. From what I understand that is still “considered” first generation? I really appreciate your kind words.

37

@suzy100 my husband went to a local school and as he explains it “back then” getting accepted was completely different than it is now.

38

.

39

I just wanted to thank everyone who helped me on this thread (and others) when my son was in the application process for ND, namely @GeronimoAlpaca @suzy100 @hpcsa @trackmbe3 @waitingmomla @northwesty @Mwfan1921 @FarmerMom @1irish1 and anyone I may have missed. This is an amazing support group not seen in any of the other college forums on this site. There is something special about ND that attracts very kind and supportive people. As many of you know, my son was accepted REA on Friday. I feel blessed and am very grateful that my he will be part of the ND family. We are over the moon. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I hope the contents of this thread will help others in deciding on REA vs RD for next year.

And congratulations to @GeronimoAlpaca for his acceptance! Go Irish!!