<p>Scouting has many rewards. Eagle Scout is a wonderful achievement. An Ivy hook it is not.</p>
<p>I question how difficult it is to become an Eagle Scout. Most of the recent projects I have heard of are simple and bland. Installing a park bench or cleaning a cemetary shouldn’t qualify. It seems like it takes time and that’s about all. There isn’t much skill in earning the badges. And with parents being troop leaders, I am sure they make it easy enough for their kids to succeed. It is one more thing that looks good on a college resume which most people would not be able to include.</p>
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faulty reasoning here. What you want to do is divide the cohort of high academic acheivement (2300+ SAT, 5.0 gpa) into two groups - those who have attained Eagle and those who have not. Then compare how many of each group are accepted into an Ivy.</p>
<p>Lots of Eagle bashing here. In my area, those who earn Eagle generally don’t until they are a Jr or Sr or sometimes the summer after graduation. Eagle’s from our high school tend to be very well rounded students involved in a number of other EC’s other than Eagle. They also tend to be very bright. We don’t have many going to Ivy’s (we are somewhat a rural area) but two in the last three years who did were both Eagles. Other colleges our tiny school has sent Eagle’s to recently include Syracuse, Lafayette, Davidson - just off the top of my head.</p>
<p>Attaining Eagle Scout shows leadership - tenacity, initiative, fortitude. These are all good qualities for college and beyond. It certainly doesn’t hurt. Females and boys who are not interested in boy scouting have other opportunities to demonstrate leadership.</p>
<p>tractorfarmer, it doesn’t sound like you any personal experience with scouting. </p>
<p>My son refurbished a greenhouse in our city’s botanic garden as his Eagle project. It doesn’t sound like much if that’s all you hear. Believe me, it was a huge project. Much of the work is in the planning; the coordination with city administrators and garden director in getting permits, calculations for materials, time and money, soliciting donations from the community for materials, recruiting and scheduling volunteers for the work days, purchasing and delivering materials (like wood and hardware for new tables and painting equipment) instructing and overseeing the volunteers (approx. 60 people in shifts over two days) during the project and and documenting every step of the process.</p>
<p>For my son, the kind of work required for scouting (his Eagle project wasn’t the half of it) was so much more difficult and challenging than anything he’d been asked to do during his high school career. That may not be the case for some boys, especially those who find academics difficult, but I’m hard pressed to think of anything that he might have done instead that would have taught him as much. Even the jobs he held in high school, college, and since college, haven’t required the same level of commitment and responsibility over time.</p>
<p>Agreed moonchild, an Eagle project may seem simple but the coordination piece that ML and moonchild outlined, is quite comprehensive. Only projects that have a long-term benefit to society qualify. In addition, my son credits scouts with helping him learn to talk to adults and taking responsibility. Every step in scouting requires a board of review, a group of adults who determine if the scout has met the appropriate challenges. But, scouts, like any activity, is not going to make his 4.3 GPA into a 5.0 or a 2070 SAT into a 2370. But, the experience has much more value than those numbers. He did wait to apply to colleges (no early admission or early action) until his Eagle was done (2 days before his 18th birthday).</p>
<p>In fairness, there are some cheesy Eagle projects, and there are some Eagle mill troops that make it easier for the boys. But in my experience–at least where I live–this is not the norm. And even if the way is greased, it still takes a lot of time and work to become an Eagle Scout, and it usually involves making sacrifices with respect to other activities.</p>
<p>I earned Eagle almost 40 years ago, and don’t believe it was a huge help in my application process - I got rejected to the one school I really wanted to go, accepted to the only other school I applied to. However, I suppose it was of some help and can’t hurt to put it on there. One main reason it is helpful is because it is probably the best way to get them to even count Scouting as an EC - I think people seldom put down “8 years of Scouting” on their aps without putting down Eagle as well, because people will wonder why they didn’t get the Eagle. It’s not like “Yearbook”, where being on the yearbook staff four years will help regardless of whether you ever made editor.</p>
<p>That said, if your are in good troops, as I was, Scouting can be incredibly interesting and valuable. I learned to sail, learned lifesaving and first aid skills that got me a job as a lifeguard at a local park, went on weeklong survival and canoe trips, and did enough backpacking trips through the Sierras that ultimately I was teaching and leading trips in the Sierra Club Basic Mountaineering course. Through Air Explorers I worked at a local airport to pay for flightime and had a volunteer flight instructor who helped several of us get our private pilot’s licenses. When I got my Radio and Electronics merit badges I became friends with the counselor who helped me get my amateur radio license. Eventually I became an engineer. There are countless other examples. Heck, without Scout camp I probably would never have even been away from home for long before I went off to college.</p>
<p>My own Eagle project was pretty lackluster, in fact I’m surprised it got by the board. But my nephew, who recently earned his Eagle, restored several acres of local wetland vegetation. It was a pretty huge undertaking.</p>
<p>Hunt, I agree. I wonder what kind of scouting experience a young man had if he became an Eagle by the age of 13 or 14? Afterall, becoming an Eagle Scout takes much more than completing the “Eagle Scout Project” which so many people focus on. What about the skills learned as tenderfoot, first class, second class, star, and life? Each badge should have meaning and the scout should have learned something to attain each badge. It is a long trail to Eagle.</p>
<p>Cross posted with bovertine. Thanks for your post. It is a good example about what a scouting experience should be about. Good for you!</p>
<p>It’s pretty unusual for a boy to become an Eagle at 14–but there are probably some unusually energetic, motivated boys who do it, and do it right. They are most likely the kind of kids who then go on and get a bunch of Palms and a bunch of other achievements.</p>
<p>I’ve known a number of boys who got a lot out or Scouting, stayed in it all through high school, but never got past First Class.</p>
<p>I’m convinced my son’s Eagle was why he got the Byrd scholarship. In our state the Byrd is basically GPA and ACT score. My son had a 4.0 UW and 35 ACT but since there are only 16 Byrd’s awarded in each congressional district, there was a tie-breaker short essay question. There had to be more than 16 applicants in the district with his stats. I’m convinced being able to write about his Eagle and what he learned from earning it in additons to his other ECs tipped things in his favor. I believe it also served the same way in him getting a research fellowship for his freshman and sophomore years and in getting a large local scholarship. Not a hook by itself but a good bump in some competitive situations.</p>
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<p>Anything is possible, but honestly I would really wonder how much was gained and learned, and what could have been learned if the scout took his time to master more skills. I have a feeling that in such cases often some steps are skipped along the way. I don’t want to argue the point, because my guess is that there are a few posters with sons who earned Eagle at 14 or younger. Just compare bovertine’s experience, to one that a scout had that earned Eagle at 14 or younger, and then chose to quit scouting (some do and some don’t).</p>
<p>I haven’t read through all the posts, so probably missed some important info.</p>
<p>Tractorfarmer: have you been involved in scouts? Not all troops allow the process to be an easy one. Here, some of the parents are involved. Not all of them are a pushover. We have always felt that you ‘earn’ your awards.</p>
<p>I have seen on the news where scouts in other towns did a flag burning ceremony for their eagle project, or cleaned an old cemetary. That would not have been allowed in our troop. Those are projects that the troop does ALL THE TIME. They have always been big on community service. The process is long and drawn out, includes meeting with different ‘boards’ from the council office , etc. </p>
<p>If you have a scout with lower capabilities (Down’s, etc) then they are more leniate on the expectations. They compensate and make them do more planning & less manual labor, etc. In any case, our troop nor the council ‘just hand it to them’.</p>
<p>My son ripped off the old decking/entrance on a community center, planned, bought the materials, found the funding, organized the work schedule, and did the work. You are required to get other scouts to help and be in a leadership position. They built the new deck and installed a flag pole with dusk/dawn lighting in January . It was freezing. He earned his Eagle Scout. Not to mention the badges required before he could even begin. There is also an entire workbook packet that has to be compelted and various oral presentations that are presented before the project is even approved to begin.</p>
<p>As far as it being an ‘in’. No. There wasn’t even a place to list it on his college application. We did mention it on some local scholarships, but they went to FFA kids.</p>
<p>A good friend of mine lives in New Jersey. Her kids go to private prep school. They were told at a pre-prep college meeting that having an Eagle Scout is ‘huge’.</p>
<p>I guess it depends on where you go.</p>
<p>P.S. My son was 14. He earned 23 badges prior - there are only 11 required Eagle ones. They are very detailed, however. He attended summer camp, several day long merit badge colleges, and camporees. He attended all the troop meetings year round and did badge work on his own. He earned each & every one. </p>
<p>He continued to earn Eagle palms afterward, is a “Runner” in the tribe of mic-o-say and has earned 2 of the highest leadership awards possible through them. (A Boy Scout tribe - only available at a couple of camps in the US). He plans to work on staff at camp next summer. Now that he’s 18, he can’t earn badges anymore. I’m not sure of the final count.</p>
<p>Some kids are more dedicated than others. Some troops are more organized or more goal oriented than others. It just depends.</p>
<p>I think two things haven’t been said yet:</p>
<p>1) Scouts go through “Boards of Review” as they move through the ranks. At these events, the Scout addresses a group of adults and answers questions – anything from “What is your favorite activity” to “What Scout Law is hard for you?”. This practice in interviewing is invaluable and may make many Scouts good candidates for colleges that have required interviews. </p>
<p>2) You don’t get to Eagle without sticking around awhile. I do know one kid who started Scouts at 16 and earned his Eagle by 18 (whew!). Most kids start at age 11 and finish an Eagle at 16 or 17. This shows a depth of experience – an admissions officer doesn’t always know if “helped with the Food Bank” means months of work or half an hour before Thanksgiving – but “Life Scout” or “Eagle Scout” means the kid has a little tenacity.</p>
<p>My D has her Gold Award from Girl Scouts, and got a college scholarship through a Girl Scout program for Gold Award recipients. Not huge, $2,500 total, but evey bit helps. I also think that it helped bump her up to a higher level merit scholarship from her college; her test scores and grades were a bit below the published miniumums for the scholarship she got. The difference in the scholarship amounts will total $30,000 over four years. </p>
<p>While it is not a “hook”, some colleges do list the achievements/qualities of their incoming freshman class, and I have seen some that list the number of Eagle or Gold Award recipients on those lists.</p>
<p>I personally have not known any scouts who became Eagle at 14–but I have known a couple that might have done so if the *troop *had been more active. There are also some troops that deliberately slow down advancement, even if a boy is willing to do the work at a younger age–that’s something I don’t agree with. I think CheckersMidwest’s son is the kind of kid who is most likely to do it at such a young age–the kind of kid it’s hard to hold back.</p>
<p>I really don’t know about having your Eagle Scout and college admissions and frankly my S could care less. I do know that scouting has been a huge positive in his life. For his project he installed a “green” roof on top of a building in our town. They did a big write up in our local paper. He has so far been offered 2 jobs… which is impressive in this economy. There is also a scouting honor society called Order of the Arrow that he is heavily involved with. Tons of leadership opportunities and community service. He has over 700 hours of CS and he is only a rising Junior. He is Chapter Chief of the OA… huge responsibility and hopes to be elected Lodge Chief this year. He went to Philmont a few weeks ago and backpacked 95 miles. Right now he is working as a staff member at the Jamboree. I can only think that ALL this leadership will help him with college admissions… as they say, this is a huge thing that they look at after grades and test scores. He has no desire to go to an Ivy. He is looking at small LAC’s that are near plenty of outdoor stuff to do. He is one of the most confident and articulate 16 year olds I know. He actually knows how to have an intelligent conversation with adults. All that interviewing and public speaking has really payed off for him. Video gaming… what’s that???</p>
<p>DS is just launching into his project. We have learned that it can be difficult to lock in a good eagle project. Anything for the city has to have approval from an utterly intractable bureaucracy, or there are union issues, or liability issues. Most of our troop’s recent eagle projects have been for the church, the school run by the church, or one of the hospitals. On the surface, they may not seem all that impressive, but the road to eagle has a lot of other stuff on it, as others have pointed out.</p>
<p>What I have found with my son is that the leadership experience helped him the most after he got to college–he finds many situations where he is the one who says, “I can do that,” or “I’ll take care of it.” And people–including professors, advisors, and others who can help him–notice.</p>
<p>Let me also add that a lot of Eagle projects that don’t sound like much turn out to be a tremendous amount of work. Around here they give a rule of thumb that a good project should take 100 man-hours of work. My son’s project was to replace the cedar shake roof on a gazebo at church and to paint and repair it. I wondered if that job could really take 100 man-hours. Hoo boy, was I wrong. I think it took about 100 man-hours just to remove the old shakes.</p>
<p>Most has been covered already…</p>
<p>My advice to parents thinking about getting S into scouting at an early age: make sure they get their S moved up the ranks as fast as possible BEFORE or SOON after they get into HS. Once they get to HS, particularly 10th and 11th grade, their interest drops way off due to time constraints, workload, embarrassed for HS friends to find out they’re a scout, discovering girls, etc. and that’s when you see most dropping out. Don’t have them get the Eagle award way too early either, because imo it is somewhat more impressive to receive it after they turn 16 on their resume. Using the Driver’s License as leverage does work. We didn’t play that card with my son and that’s why it took him almost 2 years to complete his Eagle AFTER already finishing his project! Other parents who used the DL as “bait” kept their S more motivated.</p>