<p>I understand what Early Decision and Early Action are but my question is, are either of these a good idea?
I've heard tons of nightmare stories from people who thought applying ED would get them where they wanted to be, but ended up "ruining everything". Does anyone have any advice via actual experience?</p>
<p>D did SCEA to Yale this year and was deferred. It was a crushing experince and very high stress. In the RD round, she was accepted to HYP and all of her other schools. Most people don't realize the impact of athletes, legacies, high URMs, etc on the EA/ED numbers. Even though the percentages look enticing, for the "excellent normal" student, the odds are probably no better. The Early Admission Game would lead you to believe otherwise. You can go to the **stats site and see the type of students that got in EA/ED. It's only a small percentage of those that were accepted, but it will give you an idea of what to expect.</p>
<p>If you have a clear first choice and no financial restrictions, ED may be a good idea. If your first choice has EA instead, go for it only if you can do so without getting too emotionally invested. The majority of applicants should probably do RD.</p>
<p>This is a very important question and you are wise to look at all angles ahead of time. It has been discussed many times many ways here on cc. Here is a pretty recent thread with good info on peoples' experiences, good and bad.</p>
<p>Other than the emotional issue, there is no downside to EA ... since it is not binding. I plan to encourage my daughter to use EA, where available, at schools where she is likely to be accepted. I think the whole process will be less stressful if she knows she has been accepted somewhere. Plus it will get some college apps out of the way early -- and if we're lucky it might also help her get more comfortable with some safety schools. I know from experience with my older child than once a school accepts early, they tend to put some effort into convincing the student to attend - phone calls from students, letters from deans, invitations to events, etc.</p>
<p>audiophile, I agree with your assessment on ED, if the school is your first choice and you have no financial restrictions. However, that is the rub, no financial restrictions.</p>
<p>Not sure why you suggest not going the EA route if it is available. Some schools offer merit scholarships to the early applicants only and none to the RD pool. For example, Boston College and Villanova. Further, an EA school does not have to be your first and only choice unless it is a SCEA school. Of which there are only 3, Harvard, Yale and Stanford. Because of this students can apply to a number of schools using open EA policies available at a number of schools and hear before the first of the year.</p>
<p>Further, with EA the student gets to make the final commitment later in the year after they have time to weigh all their options, including the financial aid component. With ED, you get what you get financial aid wise and you are required to withdraw all your applications to other schools if you are accepted ED.</p>
<p>Eagle79,</p>
<p>Your EA advice is better than mine. I guess the only downside is the emotional one if you get some early rejections instead of acceptances.</p>
<p>Well, in our case, there certainly are financial restrictions to the school (WUSTL) that my S wants to apply ED to. What he has told me, though, is that he would rather pay full at WUSTL than get a free ride at a lesser school. I've heard applying ED at WUSTL carries a lot more weight than applying ED at other school, as interest in the school is very imporant to them, so I'm not sure what to tell him.</p>
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What he has told me, though, is that he would rather pay full at WUSTL than get a free ride at a lesser school
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<p>Well, if he has enough money to pay for four years, then no prob...</p>
<p>However, if he expects you to pay, that's another story.</p>
<p>"Well, if he has enough money to pay for four years, then no prob...</p>
<p>However, if he expects you to pay, that's another story."</p>
<p>Agreed. Where the money's coming from should be discussed up front before a student applies ED. Lots of student's attitude change when they understand how much they might be reponsible for and work out the loan payments for themselves.</p>
<p>And don't be like some of us and hope it will all come from financial aid or merit scholarships. Work with the FAFSA estimators and believe their results, no matter how outrageous what they say you can afford may be. And too often the schools where you get the best bang for applying ED aren't going to offer much merit money to ED candidates. Why should they? You've already promised to attend even if they don't offer you a penny. Why not save their money for the ones who haven't decided? Anything they might offer you is gravy, but be very careful if you can't afford the school without their money.</p>
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What he has told me, though, is that he would rather pay full at WUSTL than get a free ride at a lesser school.
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This is where you have to be very, very careful. My S might have said that too. But that was BEFORE the "lesser" school's deans (more than one), alums, students... contacted him in recruitment/marketing mode. Nothing overwhelming, nothing pressure, nothing like what I'm sure happens to recruited athletes. But it AFFECTED him - it really raised that school in his estimation. In S' case, it hadn't been "that much" lesser to begin with; he'd always really liked it. Things HAPPEN after those ED apps go in, if they have apps in to other schools. So just be aware.
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I've heard applying ED at WUSTL carries a lot more weight than applying ED at other school, as interest in the school is very imporant to them
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This is what drives so many to go ED - the fear of foregoing an advantage that ED could offer. And who can blame them? Just weigh this advantage against all the other pros and cons of ED. And be aware that there are numerous ways to show interest - visiting, attending sessions held in your area, interviewing... On apps that my S filled out, there were 5-6 checkboxes re "interest" - separate ones for tour, info session etc. He was able to check off quite a few.</p>
<p>Applying ED can be a problem for a number of reasons. It is BINDING which leaves little flexibility and things very well can change in ones life, especially that of an 18 year old. Also financial situations and outlooks can change, and that can be a problem when you are accepted ED. There are definitely benefits to ED, most notably a boost in ones chances at a number of schools, and also the relief of being done with the process, but you should also be aware of the drawbacks. I know that my kids where in no frame of mind to apply ED early in the process, and they all went through different thought processes to bring them to their final decision which would have been very different from their initial ED choices, if they had any.</p>
<p>The cost of college has reached a point where families really need to consider the implications of paying the full tab. Is Wash U truly worth that much more than, say Case Western, or Tulane, or Miami or Vanderbilt where a student who is a prime candidate for any of those can get up to a full merit ride or nothing?</p>
<p>school she identifed as and her mom and dad agreed is an excellent fit. She had visited twice, overnighted once, and done a lot of on-line messaging with students at the school as well as research on the school, before submitting her ED app and had visited some 7 or 8 other schools between her freshman and senior year in high school. </p>
<p>I ran the FAFSA figures last summer and anticipated no need based aid being offered; such has been the case. This is a just decision; we can afford the school and this preserves dollars for those with need. She has picked up a nice sum from non-school based merit scholarships. I think it is important that the young person pursue these independent merit packages if the school doesn't offer much merit aid as it gives them ownership of the process. There sure were a lot of essays for our daughter to write, though.</p>
<p>About ED giving one a leg up - I don't know. The stats may be a bit deceptive. True, the acceptance rate is higher for ED's, but ED's are also a self-selecting population. Their qualifications may not be reflective of the overall RD pool. The point being that an applicant who is unlikely to be competitive during RD isn't going to get much boost during ED in all liklihood with one possible exception. </p>
<p>I would imagine, though, that individual applications may be scrutinized more thoroughly during ED, simply as a function of smaller numbers for the admissions folks to review. This might be a positive for a person who lays out in EC's and other information, qualities and evidence that may offset lower than desired test scores/gpa's/class placements etc. Then again, the admissions staffers I have had contact strike me as being very professional; I'd imagine RD's would be carefully reviewed, too.</p>
<p>Do I sound like I'm saying - "six of one, half a dozen of another?" Probably. If anybody sees an admissions officer reading this post and subsequently howling with laughter over my faulty assumptons, please let me know. :-)</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Bill</p>
<p>There are a number of reasons why early apps are favored. THough there are more of a self selecting population, they may not necessarily all be high stats kids in their. I can tell you that many adcoms really detest any "pass" a kid gets through admissions, including athletes, legacies, etc and if you are in that pool of kids whose stats are not that impressive and yours are, you may well stand out. There may be more high stat motivated kids in the pool, but there are often also alot of "special" cases. When you are letting them in with looser stats, you will look at the kid with the decent in range stats a bit kindlier. </p>
<p>I have no statistiics to back this up but I can tell you that over the years, those kids who get their apps in early, even early in the ED/EA season tend to get a bit of an advantage. I think it is partly because it is difficult to reject a high stat, excellent student, great person, fine ECs. It's only when you are faced with thousands of the same thing and have to cull it down, that you start to nit pick in self defense. So a high stat kid without anything terribly special may get in during the early round when there are so many spaces yet to fill. In January and February, when the adcoms are inundated with apps and with multiples of the same type of app, things can get mighty tight. In rolling admissions schools, you can see this at work. As the spaces fill up, the criteria get tougher. An admit October for Umich could well be a reject if he applies in January.</p>
<p>One suggestion if you apply EA, SCEA or ED - apply to at least one acceptable (to you) school with rollng admissions and submit that application as soon as possible in September. The EA, SCEA and ED applications are generally due by November 1, with the decisions on (or about) December 15. It is great for the student's general pscyhe if they have one admit in the bag via an application to a rolling admission school by mid-November, before the EA, SCEA or ED decision dates.</p>
<p>As my D said to me on receiving her admit from her rolling admission school in mid-November, "Great - at least I know that I am going to college!"</p>
<p>It would be interesting to know whether applicants who do not require any financial aid (i.e. higher income) candidates have any additional advantage going ED over RD, and, if so, where? On the one hand, elite schools have an incentive in looking in non-need applicants, especially as it gives them more freedom in the RD rounds. (And a special incentive to lock up developmental or important legacy admits.) On other hand, it likely that non-need candidates may make up as much as 90% of the ED pool, in which case their acceptance rates perhaps not be any higher than they are in the RD rounds (where they are much higher than the average applicant already.)</p>
<p>All speculative, of course. If one requires financial aid, there may be little advantage in admit rates, and there definitely is a disadvantage in not being able to compare, and potentially leverage, offers.</p>
<p>My families experience with ED was not positive, it caused my D to focus on one school more than others and when she was deferred, I felt we were set up by an abuse of statistics that indicated an ED was worth an extra hundred points on the SATS. So it was a lousy week just before Christmas. After Christmas she was able to focus on a larger list and after the first acceptance came in..she was innoculated against any potential rejections or waitlists.</p>
<p>My advice would be to find that special safety school and preferrably one that will accept early on because it really reduces the stress factor.</p>
<p>I can tell you that applying ED at Johns Hopkins does give you some advantage for admissions but disadvantage for grants.</p>
<p>audiophile:</p>
<p>"I guess the only downside is the emotional one if you get some early rejections instead of acceptances."</p>
<p>Everyone's different but from my perspective it is better to get some of the rejections early because then you have some time to refocus. You may be just deferring the disappointment. If you wait to the later RD round you and don't get accepted the student is left scrambling without anything.</p>
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I felt we were set up by an abuse of statistics that indicated an ED was worth an extra hundred points on the SATS.
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<p>I think you may have misinterpreted the statistics.</p>
<p>It may be true that if you do an odds calculation, the odds of getting into a given school ED with a 1400 SAT are the same as the odds of getting in RD with a 1500 SAT. But, that is the wrong way to evaluate whether or not an ED acceptance is plausible.</p>
<p>For the schools I've looked at (admittedly a small sample of highly selective colleges), the median SATs for the accepted ED group are essentially identical to the median SATs of the enrolled freshman class -- sometimes a couple points higher, sometimes a couple points lower.</p>
<p>If you are a solid candidate for acceptance at an elite college, then ED probably does improve your chances. But, if you are not a solid candidate, then ED isn't going to turn you into one. They aren't going to mentally add points to your SAT score just because they are looking at the app in the ED round. They are going to evaluate the app against what they know they will end up when the final class is enrolled. Note the difference between the accepted class and the enrolled class. In almost all cases, the accepted class has somewhat higher stats than the enrolled class because the highest stat kids are most likely to have the most options and enroll somewhere else.</p>
<p>IMO, a white, middle or upper-class student, without an identifiable "tip" needs SAT scores close to the 75th percentile to be a "solid" candidate. With an effective "tip", you could probably drop the SATs down to the 50th percentile.</p>