Early HS graduation

<p>I have been reading for a while and have looked at all the thread titles in this current part and some of the old parts. If this has been covered I am sorry that I did not look thoroughly enough.</p>

<p>My D is a HS freshman and is considering early graduation. She has a March birthday making her 17 at the time of graduation so not terribly young. I am wondering if anyone has any information pro or con, on being young in the MT audition pool. D has not had a "child's" sounding voice since about 11. </p>

<p>If a girl is physically and vocally mature does would graduating from HS early matter?</p>

<p>keepingcalm,</p>

<p>I am certain that SoozieVT will be posting you advice. Her daughter graduated early. Unfortunately you may have to wait a couple days as I believe she is at NYU this weekend.</p>

<p>Sue</p>

<p>In the past someone else--I'm sorry, I can't remember now who it was--posted that her daughter was considering graduating early. She recently posted and said they had changed their minds and daughter was continuing on in highschool. But there was some advice given on a thread in this past about this subject. </p>

<p>Soozievt can certainly give you good advice on this, also, as her daughter did graduate early and was accepted to many programs.</p>

<p>(Sorry - she's in Seussical- Gertrude McFuzz- all I hear are rhymes these days---:))</p>

<p>My daughter was the one interested in leaving HS to enter college early(she is a Junior). Because she attends a performing arts school, she cannot do that and graduate(not enough artistic credits). SO....she has decided to stay and work on maturing her voice and technique more over the next year. We will be following the more traditional use of this year for research and visits.</p>

<p>The impression from all the responses to my thread were that it may be tricky. I know there is at least one person who did GRADUATE early and is in a program. So it is possible. If your D is just a freshman however, things can change radically in 2 -3 years. As I was reminded, college is not only about a major but on maturity and ability to handle adult decisions alone. </p>

<p>My advice: try a precollege program next summer and see how that goes. Someone else also suggested moving out a bit geographically for theatre work(other local comapnies or other groups that do shows) to meet the needs of your D.</p>

<p>My final words: Good Luck!!</p>

<p>MikksMom</p>

<p>physical and vocal maturity are great, but i'd consider two questions:</p>

<p>how mature is she socially? mentally?</p>

<p>throw those two into the mix and you might come up with a better answer.</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses! And don't apologize for Suessical, we did it TWICE last year! Your questions are all helpful and things we do think about. D is currently (who knows 'cause this may change) very socially mature. She has traveled internationally several times, done Interlochen twice as an intermediate, worked out of town for a 6 week stint with an equity production of The Piano Lesson. For that she stayed with her grandparents who lived in the city, but had to do her own laundry, keep track of her rehearsal schedule, get school work done and help out around the house. Now she turned 12 during this time and sometimes 12 year olds with their first taste of the adult world can be very responsible. Plus I realize that the social peer pressure at 12 is a little different from college. We have time to wait this out to see what happens, but on we are trying to think through our options.</p>

<p>D is at a performing arts school that runs grades 4 - 12. She hit 9th grade with 5 of her 8 required arts credits completed. She is a dance and voice major. Dance carries a lot of credits and she has been in a high school class since 7th grade and as an 8th grader for some reason got high school credit for her choir. (It's an 8-9 choir so everoe must get HS credit no matter what grade) But mikkmoms you are right the school makes it tricky-- special requirements for early graduation...</p>

<p>We are looking for pre-college programs for the summer. She does take some classes at CCM's pre-college, but is in her second year in the HS advanced dance classes there. I am sure there are things she can do through HS, but if it is just biding time maybe she should just move on.</p>

<p>And just to be clear, she is not such a phenom that an early move is obvious. She is in advanced dance because she does ballet daily for 3 plus hours which is considerably more than most of her MT peers. It is impossible for me to know where she stands vocally as I have no ear.</p>

<p>So after this very long post, I guess we are just in an exploring phase and trying to gather as much information as possible.</p>

<p>I'm the mom of a daughter who did graduate high school early (after junior year) and went on for a BFA degree in MT, and is now a freshman at NYU/Tisch/CAP21, from where I just returned for Parent Weekend. I can try to help. By the way, this is not the same situation as the other poster, Mikksmom, was referring to...leaving school early after junior year without a diploma...which is often referred to as early entrance or early enrollment, different thing. My D earned a high school diploma and graduated after three years of high school which I believe is what you are discussing....early graduation. </p>

<p>These cases are VERY individual and I don't know your daughter of course. It is not for everyone. As far as how it affects the actual ADMISSIONS/AUDITION process.....I called every school on my D's list when she came to us mid year in tenth grade begging and making her case to us to graduate early and I asked each school, NOT ABOUT HER....simply the POLICY about admitting students who graduated high school early. I did not want to proceed with her plans if this was going to negatively affect her admissions chances or if schools were not keen on such applicants. Every school told me that they do accept early graduates who fulfilled the requirements for admission. You really should inquire at each school. You need not give your child's name. </p>

<p>As I am sure you are well aware, the reasons for graduating early should be compelling and in more than one area of development. It was never our intentions for our child to graduate early and in fact, it all came from her and was not planned (until she put the plan in motion with our approval in tenth grade). Not only do YOU have to weigh the issues for your daughter "in-house", but the schools will also take extra care in evaluating such candidates to determine if THEY believe they are ready for college. I want to add here that my daughter added to every application, a personal statement (this was not her regular app essays) articulating her reasons for choosing to graduate early. Also her guidance counselor spoke to this issue in his report. </p>

<p>You need to evaluate her readiness in several areas of development.....academically/intellectually, socially, personally, and artistically. Being academically ready to undertake college is not all that it takes. There are other ways to satisfy being advanced that way. There are ways to do dual enrollment at some high schools with college courses, and many other ways to expand academic choices for advanced students besides graduating early. I have another advanced student in my family who did not graduate early but did have to have some academic accomodations made senior year due to being so accelerated in school.</p>

<p>I guess one way to explain this is through personal experience which may not apply to your daughter but it points out the kinds of issues that come up with such kids. </p>

<p>For my daughter, it has always been a challenge to meet her academic needs in school. First she was admitted early to Kindergarten (thus not only did she graduate early, she entered early and started college this year at 16 1/2). Throughout her schooling many accomodations had to be made for her being "advanced" academically. She was placed in multi-age classes through elem school, always with grades above hers in the class. She did numerous indep. studies in elem school as well as was given above grade level accelerated work on an individual basis. In middle school, she took several high school classes....in English, Math, and French (never with the intent to graduate early but simply to meet her learning needs). She earned several high school credits in middle school. She also took a college level writing course through Johns Hopkins in 8th grade. She completed several indep. studies in math and history as well while still in middle school, for credit. She has always been someone to pursue academic challenge. Because of this, she came close to exhausting most of the most demanding courses at our high school by the end of junior year and did not feel compelled to stay a fourth year without enough high level courses remaining to take, plus had completed the graduation requirements by the end of junior year. </p>

<p>Socially, she was always put in classes with much older kids, as well as was placed with older kids in her all of her extracurricular pursuits. At her summer theater program (sleepaway for 8 years), she was always grouped and was closest with older peers....roomed with them every year as well. She felt that was the right grouping for her socially. As they moved onto college, she wanted to move on with this grouping. In this much older grouping (not even just kids one grade above hers but more), she was socially adept and people did not consider her as "younger". She actually took on leadership positions in older peer groupings. This is where she felt she belonged. Now that she is at college, she says that people who are just meeting her continue to comment when learning her real age, that they can't believe her real age because she does not come across to them as younger, never has. </p>

<p>Emotionally, she felt ready for the independence required of college life. She had been away from home and was very anxious to move onto this stage of her life. </p>

<p>She had theatrical/artistic reasons as well. She felt she had pretty much exhausted the training and production experience available to her at this level locally. She had reached the goals she had set for herself theatrically in a high school setting. She had been the leads in the high school productions since 7th grade, had taken the most advanced dance classes and had gotten into the selective repertory troupe at her dance studio for years, won the highest state awards for voice, had created and directed a few musicals, and was simply ready for the next step in her training and did not feel she would benefit from another year doing similar things at this level with no where really higher to move. She wanted further challenge. She wanted more advanced training and opportunities. </p>

<p>We all know our own kids. If someone else was telling me this story about their kid, yeah, I would pause and wonder....graduating at 16 1/2??? Yikes. But this is the kid I've got. Knowing her as I do, I could not argue with any of her well articulated reasons, intense drive/passion, very strong will.....and frankly, anyone who knows her personally is not surprised whatsoever when they hear she graduated early. So, you know your kid and must evaluate all these areas and think about how compelling the reasons are in several developmental areas. Think about your child surviving socially in college. I already knew my child mixed socially in programs away from home for years with a much older grouping, let alone at home. She was not concerned about any of this. She wanted to do this. In fact, she is doing it now and has not had any problems and is loving the whole deal in every respect....academically, socially, personally, artistically.</p>

<p>The only thing I can say is that I was hesitant as a PARENT because I was not anxious for my kid to leave home one year earlier! And I always couldn't imagine her on her own so soon and the responsibility that comes with not only college but in her case, even being in a city (having come from a very rural area). But that is more my problem as it has not been her problem, lol. I've gotten used to it. She is thriving. This is who she is. Love the kid you've got. Just like kids with problems like learning disabilities, you gotta try to find ways to make it work for kids of this sort too. She has never been a "normal" child who followed a normal path, particularly with regard to schooling. This is just one more part of that journey. So far, it seems to be the right one for HER. Besides all that, if you knew her, you'd know that there was no way I could keep her "down"....it would not have been a good year at all if I had not given in. She knows herself. </p>

<p>As you can see, colleges WERE willing to take her and she had many acceptances to BFA programs with scholarship. Even at the one she ended up at, she was selected as a Scholar, one of about 15-18 kids in all of the Tisch freshman class, so they overlooked her being young. Or maybe they evaluated her despite her being young and upon careful examination considering being an early graduate, were still willing to take her and also put her into a leadership group. </p>

<p>I recall when she got her only full out rejection which was fairly early in the audition season, she started to wonder if she had reduced her chances by having one less year under her belt of training than the other applicants but then stopped the doubt from that one outcome and stayed the course and she happily received many acceptances after that rejection. Perhaps she'd have done even better by waiting one more year, we'll never know. But she did good enough to have a choice of programs that were willing to take her and is very happy going to one of her first choice schools after all. </p>

<p>I hope that personal story is helpful to you some as you begin to think about the possibilities in your own family. You are starting much earlier in thinking about this path than we did. It was my child's idea and it came in tenth grade, while we were immersed in her sister's senior year college admissions process and one at a time was really all I wanted to deal with but you do what you gotta do. You gotta take the kid you have and run with it. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>PS...In reading the little bit you shared about your D's experiences, it does sound like this is a path worth thinking about as a possibility if she feels she will have exhausted the offerings and levels where she is at and not be learning new things in the fourth year or moving onto more challenging groupings if she is already at the highest level ones for a few years. Also get some opinions of those who work with her. One need not be a "phenom". It is not about that. It is simply about being in the appropriate level placement in the various developmental areas. Look at her in all those areas....academically (she sounds advanced), artistically (is placed advanced), socially, and emotionally.</p>

<p>Susan
thank you so much for the time you spent with your reply. Your daughter's story provided some good thinking points for us as a family. Your daughter sounds a lot like my D's best buddy, who also started school a year early and wants to graduate a year early (and wants to go to NYU). But her mother is very resistent to the idea of sending her daughter off to the city at 16 and a half. (This kids is VERY petite currently and this plays into some of it for her.)</p>

<p>My D is not particularly academically advanced- she is an over achiever (in that she is achieving more than test scores would ever anticipate) who because she is very busy, disciplined, and used to working with professionals has learned to be productive and just get things done. Its really more of a case of being a strong fish in a weak pool. But hard work accounts for much in life and we want to encourage her to continue to develop strong habits.</p>

<p>She and her friend are the ones planning their college futures. They have been pouring over the college bulletins and course requirements trying to figure out how they can get out of high school and into the colleges they are interested. Whether or not this happens, we are encouraging it since keeping them motivated to do well will only help whatever the final decision is.</p>

<p>Hearing your daughters progress through will now help me to put some perspective on the talks we have and look at all parts of the equation. It was good to hear that it did not seem to hurt your daughter to graduate early and it is useful to know that calling schools is an option when the times comes helps. I think my husband and my biggest concern right now is artistically, other than her friend, they seem to be in a rather talent weak cluster of years. And she and her friend are RARELY considered for the same parts since friend is small and blond and D is tall and African American. It is not that they need to compete with other kids but I don't see the programs she is in currently needing to develop higher level courses for the 2 kids currently in their age group. But then families move in and out and that may change.</p>

<p>Now I am rambling, so I end.
Thanks</p>

<p>Keeping calm...glad you found it helpful to hear another journey. </p>

<p>For continued artistic challenge....go outside of school and look at adult regional theater. I see your D has already worked professionally and that may be where some challenge will be with that. If there are outside classes or private lessons that are more challenging than school, that is another place. We don't have a performing arts high school where we live. Also your D can create challenges artistically....like my D wrote musical revues and directed/produced/choreographed/musically directed them and this was a new challenge. </p>

<p>Further, I might suggest summer programs away from home (if you can afford these) where she will likely be in a more talented pool of kids for further challenge and training. I know what it is like for a kid to stand out locally or regionally. But then when that same kid goes to a summer intensive, she is mixed in with all the standouts from all over the country so that is further challenge, plus has other benefits of being with those who share that passion. It is also a chance to work with other professional staff to get something different than from the home teachers, as well as professional directors. That can be a nice balance to the training/productions at home. At least you have a performing arts high school, as well as CCM prep, and I do know that there are various theater groups at various levels in your regoin. </p>

<p>Do you know Dancersmom? She posts here and her daughter is from your area and also did CCM prep and is now at FSU. I have an online friend who is 21 who did CCM prep and who at one time likely went to your PA high school (though switched to home school) and so I have heard of things available in your area. Ironically, I saw this young woman in NYC this past weekend, where she is now in school, as she came to my D's performance at NYU and met up with me. Your D might keep looking at auditions in your region to supplement what is offered at school too. If there is further acceleration in terms of placement in classes at her school or studios, I'd look into that and making sure she is sufficiently challenged. Also private lessons are a way of individualizing and meeting her level of need in terms of voice and acting too. </p>

<p>It sounds like you have a talented and motivated daughter and I am sure at some point, after you have explored all options, you will find the right one that is appropriate for her. It is still a little early yet but glad to hear she is a dreamer with big dreams. I hope she goes for it. </p>

<p>Tell her friend's mom I know lots of petite kids in BFA programs, some at NYU even. My kid is not as petite but is still 5'3". In my opinion she looks her true age but she comes across in other respects as older, such as verbally and socially. If I can let my country kid do this, tell her she can....LOL. You at least are from a metropolitan area. My kid has never been on the loose in a city before! By the way, a petite friend (this is just coincidental...but she is 4'10" and a fourth year CAP student now) told my D that she knew an early high school graduate at CAP (this was when my D was thinking of graduating early) and so we knew they had accepted someone like this before. Now you know about my kid too. It can be done.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>keeping calm</p>

<p>I believe our d's go to the same school. Mine is a senior. Although she hasn't considered it, a boy in her class graduated a year early in May 2005. PM me and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.
Susan</p>

<p>Keeping Calm,
I have sent you a private message; be sure to look for it. My D graduated from your D's H.S. I'm very well versed in what is available in arts training in Cincinnati. I would be happy to help you any way I can.</p>

<p>Kathy</p>