Excellent post @Calliene, totally agree. If you’ve got a kid that is pushed to the limit of what they thought they were able to do, in a group that might outshine them by a mile, and STILL wants to keep going, then you’re probably stuck driving to MT/acting/dance/musical gigs of one kind or another for the next four years. S purposely pushed himself into opportunities where he thought he would find people more talented than himself and appreciated the work he had to do to “catch up”. Ironically, what happened is that he eventually ran out of a significant number of peers willing to WORK as hard as he did. To his chagrin, he is finding - to a somewhat lesser extent - the same is true in college. The work is always there to be done. Keeping up the drive to continue it is the hard part. Luckily for my S, the work and his passion are one and the same. It’s just the sleep that is hard to come by.
I agree with @Calliene that if at all possible, have your child experience a bigger talent pool (along with an immersive experience) than what some have locally. My daughter’s experience was similar to Calliene’s daughter in that she grew up in a small place and it was a bit easier to stand out. She went away starting at age 9 every summer to Stagedoor Manor, where kids came from all over and so many were the “stars” in their home towns too. Those summers played a very significant role in my D’s development in the field and establishment of her goals as well.
Learning you are a little fish in a big sea is very important. D began to learn that lesson from attending a theatre camp that drew talent from all over NYC and Long Island. She then attended the MT Summer intensive at NYU Steinhardt and saw what the national pool was like. Luckily she was prepared to not be the only star when she went to off to attend NYU.
Probably her proudest achievements in HS had been playing Belle in Beauty and the Beast, and being the president of her high school. The first girl she sat next to at freshman orientation for MT had done the exact same things as a senior. So much for feeling unique and unparalleled. D was well prepared and laughed it off, but the other girl looked stricken and it took her a while to get over not being special in a program with many talented students.
All great advice! My D also did several summer programs (OCU, MPulse, ArtsBridge, Cherubs) over her HS summers, and I think one of the best things it did for her was give her a reality check about how many talented kids there are out there competing for a limited number of college programs. It also was a great way to actually spend time on different campuses in different regions and visit other area schools. Another huge plus is having an amazing network of friends who are going through this now, or who have gone through it before to talk to about different programs, experiences…
I would like to add that since your daughter is still younger, don’t let her get so caught up in the MT process for aiming for college that she does not enjoy her high school years! My D is going to be a junior this fall. We are going to be getting into crazy stuff here soon but I must remind myself not to let it consume us. That is difficult since MT is so competitive. We must remember, no matter what happens that my D will end up where she needs to be. It will depend a lot on finances too. Plus she attends an arts high school, so the advice for not being in a spring show her senior year will not be an option for her. That is the main show for her school every yr and she would not miss it for the world. So, that being said, just do your research but don’t pressure your daughter too much on the way…I was doing that initially. I had my D do a camp in NYC last summer. She loved it and it really pushed her in dance, which was great. but this summer she is not going far away, she said she wanted to do local theater with her friends and "Take a summer to herself "before the summer before her senior year, since she knows she will have to go to a college prep camp that summer. We do not really have access to the expensive coaching that some others do. We may may take advantage of a nearby university MT professor that offers coaching but that will be it and only a few times to pick audition material.
Such great advice. I am loving the links posted by several of you. There are so many opportunities available if you only know where to look! I have looked for some of this information and given up in frustration so thank you for pointing newcomers in the right direction!
I have read through all of your responses again today and have another follow up question. Do things like all-state choir or one-act play state competitions benefit the students when it comes to college admission? I understand that the training for these activities is beneficial, but my question is really related to the admissions process. Reading the comments on this post really makes me think they aren’t as important as I would have thought.
My anecdotal response would be that no - neither all state choir or state thespian competitions will make a difference in admissions - save the training that these give you. My D’s HS didn’t have a thespian troupe - so no state thespian festivals to participate in - and no choir program either… which is why she played an instrument in the band throughout HS - so that she’d have a working knowledge of music from her HS education. I think training is the key - and if participation in these things for your D will help with that - then it’s worth it - but if there are other opportunities that you and she feel will help her more toward her ultimate goal - don’t sweat it if it conflicts with these things. Just make the most of the opportunities that are available to you… and I’m going to beat a dead horse here - make sure you are getting the dance training.
Funny anecdote related to the above…but when my D auditioned for MT at NYU/Tisch, which has a brief interview portion included, the professor who was the auditor commented about my D having been in All States for Chorus, which was on her resume. I doubt it had any affect on being admitted, but it was something the auditor commented about and how fun that is, and so on.
I agree with kategrizz that EC’s like all-state choir and one-act play competitions probably won’t play much of a part in the artistic admissions process for most of the programs listed at the top of this forum, especially the BFA programs. However, they may help in the following circumstances:
- Schools that are very academically selective for admission.
- Some BA programs and schools that are less competitive for entry and/or those that only audition-for-scholarships.
- Some scholarship programs, especially those based on leadership.
I do think there is value to ECs that your child enjoys and can make time for, but I agree, I don’t think it will make a huge difference when it comes to admission. Son is a percussionist and it did come up frequently during interviews, but I think it was the auditor making conversation to put son at ease.
Because my D didn’t even have the opportunity to pursue these things at her HS - she found other EC’s to round out the resume for the kinds of things that EmsDad points out. (President of her Drama Club, competing in some regional competitions, etc.) So - I guess my point is - if you have the opportunity, and it works for you - GREAT - but if you don’t have the opportunity - encourage your S or D to make other opportunities for themselves.
The importance of EC’s that are on a resume will depend on the school. Younger D was accepted to NYU Steinhart as a studio art major. But her resume was filled with choir, musical theatre and acappella EC’s, and she had been torn between studying MT or art up until senior year. I was a bit concerned with her gpa since it was about 90.1 weighted and for art (like MT) acceptance is based 50% on academics at NYU. She was accepted ED to NYU and I was quite surprised when she got an offer to join the scholars program since I had been holding my breathe over her academic acceptance.
A year later, D asked one of the deans who runs the scholars program for a letter of recommendation. It was very insightful. The letter was all about how D’s application from the very beginning stood out because she was the embodiment of what Steinhardt offered–art, music, theatre and education. So all of those EC’s–including the one’s not focused on studio art–did make a difference in her acceptance. They also positioned her as a leader and someone who was multi-faceted.
^^ @uskoolfish Somewhat of a similar experience is when my D was admitted to NYU/Tisch, she was selected to be a Tisch Scholar (this is not a scholarship), which no longer exists. The letter mentioned the criteria for selection and one was leadership and they were looking for future leaders. When my D applied, she didn’t even know there was a thing called Tisch Scholars, but I realized that her Activity Resume had some signifiant leadership endeavors on it and so I guess they read that.
I do think that schools like to see students who have a broader background than just theatre. For older D (who was MT major), there was a real stress in her program on learning, reading and experiencing things outside of a MT bubble, because those life experiences will make you a better actor and will allow you to understand more characterizations. And seeing yourself as a leader is important in theatre as well. So those EC’s like student government, manager of an acappella group or being a board member of a club can be important.
As with everything else in the process- I think it depends on the school. I imagine that a school with a separate academic admissions process might weigh ECs more heavily- after all, you are supposed to be proving that you are up to the “standard” for that school. In schools were it is all about the audition…it seems that they might weigh less. They place I think ECs would matter most would be at competitive BA schools like Northwestern, Brown, UCLA etc. According to conventional wisdom for applying to those types of schools (regardless of major) ECs (and essays) can make or break you.
That may be true for admissions, @toowonderful. But ECs can help with scholarship opportunities. Our D has a leadership scholarship in addition to academic and talent $. She was offered similar scholarships at most schools to which she was accepted based on her service and leadership. And she received a number of outside scholarships (not through her college) also. So while I do not think ECs help gain acceptance to many MT programs, it’s possible it could make your favorite program more affordable. and some of the activities with which she was involved were often remarked on during interviews.
I completely agree with you @vvnstar - and I certainly don’t think ECs are ever a bad thing. (esp in terms of demonstrating leadership etc) That was one of the disadvantages of the PA program D did in HS- lots of performance opportunities- but few ECs. She could still participate in ECs through her regular HS- (though that was tough since she was often rehearsing immediately after school) and of course community opportunities, summers etc. D applied (unsuccessfully- but hey, fun to try) to an Ivy last year and while she had the grades/scores (as do so many others)- we knew she was a long shot b/c she didn’t have the well rounded EC “package” that many of those types of competitive schools like to see.
If we had it to do over, I would make my D decide on fewer schools to apply to, with one safety school. She ended up at her dream school after all, so all that wasted time and money… For her top three choices audition on campus. And definitely plan on going to Unifieds in Chicago or New York. Such an awesome experience!