<p>My advice: hold your heads high, but don’t let them swell. You have entered an elite program of an elite institution, and should be afforded respect as such, but lording it over people or excesively bragging about it costs you respect in the eyes of others. Let the content of your character be as formidable as your intellect.</p>
<p>CC: S received his Echols notification in the mail on the 17th.</p>
<p>Thought I might contribute to the discussion here…</p>
<p>DISCLAIMER: I do not think that all Echols scholars are like the ones I describe below. Some of my best friends are/were first year Echols. However, as a regular first year student at the time, I am just describing the way that I felt.</p>
<p>I am currently a 2nd year at UVA. Despite being accepted to some pretty outstanding schools as a senior in high school (WashU in St. Louis, Vanderbilt, Cornell, W&M), I was not offered Echols status as part of my admission. To be honest, I was pretty bitter about it, considering I knew a handfull of students who got the status but were denied to the other top schools that I was accepted to. I thought long and hard about it but with a bit of pressure from my parents, I decided to enroll to UVA as a regular/non-Echols student instead of going to one of the “better” private schools. </p>
<p>During my first year, I held a pretty big grudge against the program. I was coming in with 40 college credits (8 AP exams and scored a 5 on every single exam) but I as a normal first year student, I had the latest registration time possible for the school. I had to take all of these general education classes even though I had my heart set on science. As a potential chemistry major (and because I had AP credit), I opted to take the “honors” chemistry series which, of course, was nearly half Echols Scholars. Many of these students were VERY pretentious, know-it-alls, and thought that they were much smarter than the “regular” students. They would always make inside jokes with each other that only the Echols kids would understand. It seemed like they had their own elitist clique and it really started to bug me. Because they all lived together and knew each other, it was immediately obvious that you did not “belong” to their group of friends. My worst memory is the condescending sneer I got from a peer in that class when I told him I lived in McCormick dorms and not Watson-Webb/Balz-Dobie (where the Echols live).</p>
<p>One of the reasons, however, that I did choose UVA was because I knew I would be able to apply to the program myself at the end of my first year. With a 3.9 GPA at the end of my first year, I was ultimately accepted to the program. Now, on paper, I am an Echols Scholar just like all those students who drove me crazy first year. A little hypocritical I suppose…but I was really envious of the early registration time and exemption from those very annoying gen-ed classes (I had my heart set on science as early as 11th grade). </p>
<p>I still occasionally run into 1st year Echols from first year who don’t know that I’m technically now an Echols scholar. They still treat me like crap and it is pretty annoying, but I’m over it. They can have their super ego if it helps them sleep at night.</p>
<p>Anyways, what I’m trying to get at here is this. Being accepted to the Echols/Rodman program is an outstanding accomplishment and you should definitely be proud of yourselves. However, do NOT let it go to your head. There are other, VERY bright students who were not offered Echols status.</p>
<p>If you were not accepted to Echols and are a little bitter about it (like I was), dont be. You can always apply to the program (the acceptance rate is very generous, ~50%) and reap the benefits for 3 of your 4 years at the school. Also, you will be getting to know the general student body a bit better than the Echols students your first year and meet some really interesting people (for example, I had two baseball players in my first year hall and it was really awesome).</p>
<p>All in all, however, being an Echols scholar is not a huge deal at all. No matter what, all UVA students take the same classes and get the same degree. After your first year and after you’ve declared a major, all students are pretty much seen as the same by the school.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your experience, ChemUnder. Feelings of bitterness are understanable, particularly in view of the you-can’t-come-in-our-clubhouse attitude you encountered. </p>
<p>May I ask whether freshman frequently get shut out of their first choice picks for classes at UVA? Does the school do a good job of anticipating demand for particular classes? Do students have difficulty meeting the requirements for their majors?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Yes, thanks for the very thorough and insightful post, ChemUnder.</p>
<p>just search the forum about course registration. it’s common to get locked out initially but with class shopping week it is common to get in to many classes (but not all/especially unrealistic ones that 3rd/4th years need to take). by that i mean, people switch classes a lot in the first week, so staying on the waitlist and attending class is a great way to get into a class with a lot of movement in enrollment. some classes are just going to be locked until 3rd/4th year because it is a huge university. for example a few years ago the spanish department removed the minor and blocked enrollment in all classes to allow majors only. it is part of a large university. another example is how i could not take math 334 until my 3rd year, even with 2 years of AP credits helping my registration time, because so many 3rd and 4th year math majors need the class. it is offered every year, so it is not a big deal. same with HCI in the CS department. the alternative is a small college where you don’t even have choices because there are so few classes (all of my friends who went to small colleges has 0 choices in their 1st year schedules - they were all random gen ed requirements). i would take picking my classes and not getting everything i wanted over not being able to pick any classes.</p>
<p>My daughter is a first year Echols scholar living in Balz-Dobie. The dorm is only a year and a half old, with air-conditioning, elevators, and hall baths. The common room furnishings are nice, and the dorm smells good with fresh paint and new carpet. There are some non-echols students living in Balz-Dobie, and daughter reports that no one knows who is/is not Echols. There are at least 2 more dorms being built next door, that I believe should be occupied this fall. The O-Hill cafeteria is near-by, so no one feels isolated.</p>
<p>You’re welcome guys. Sorry if I came off as a bit of ranting but I thought I should share how I felt.</p>
<p>“May I ask whether freshman frequently get shut out of their first choice picks for classes at UVA? Does the school do a good job of anticipating demand for particular classes? Do students have difficulty meeting the requirements for their majors?”</p>
<p>In all honesty, it depends what classes you’re looking for. A lot of the time, you may not be able to get the EXACT class time that you want, but you can usually compromise for your 2nd or 3rd choice class time. For example, I was able finish my language requirement and take SPAN2020 my first semester first year, despite that class being notorious for being dominated by 2nd/3rd years. I did not get my first choice class time, but was able to settle for like a 9am-10am MWF. Not ideal, but it got the job done. Without the Echols registration time, however, it is very difficult to get into higher level (300/400) level classes as a first year. But, I wouldn’t say thats a huge deal because there is no real reason to take those classes unless you already have your major picked out the summer before your first year and you want to graduate early.</p>
<p>More usually, though, most first years take large intro classes. Examples are intro chem, intro psych, macro/micro economics, etc. These big intro classes are usually not too difficult to get into even as a first year, although (again) you sometimes may not get your first choice time slot. </p>
<p>As hazelorb has said, you can usually get in off the wait-list for a class if you’re persistant enough. A LOT of people change their schedules around during the first week of class, meaning that you can usually get into a class if your position on the wait list is good enough. It also depends on the professor, but if you show your face for the first week of class and there seems to be extra room, the professor will usually let you into the class.</p>
<p>But to more directly answer your first question, I would generally say that first years (freshmen) do NOT get shut out of their first choice classes at UVA, unless their first choice classes are upper 300/400 level classes that only majors would be taking. The school does a decent job at offering multiple times for general first year classes so that everyone can fit them into their schedule.</p>
<p>As for your second question, I would say its a mixed batch. One example is intro biology. Despite the fact that there are a LOT of incoming first year bio majors every year (like my younger brother and one of my roommates), most of them will not be even able to take intro bio until their second year. I can’t really speak much from the humanities perspective because my course load is pretty science heavy, but I think it is better in those departments (history, political science, foreign affairs, etc.) than in the sciences because every pre-med student needs chemistry, biology, physics, etc. Additionally, I believe there is a little more flexibility in those departments concerning required classes for your major.</p>
<p>As for your last question, I would definitely say no. Unless you are constantly changing your major between very different subjects (like urban planning to computer science), it is very easy to fulfill all your major requirements. Also, if you are a declared major during your first/second year, you get priority registration over EVERYONE else (even the Echols). As long as you are smart with your scheduling each semester (there is no hand holding with association deans to make sure you are taking the right classes), I would say it is very easy to meet your requirements for your major.</p>
<p>Here is a slightly different perspective from a parent of a fourth year in Arts and Sciences – but not a hard science major. Scheduling can be a challenge for many who get no priority for registration times – this includes, but is not limited to first semester scheduling during summer orientation. It just is for most. That said, there are many, many courses offered each semester that will satisfy some requirement, so students are not really disadvantaged and they may even find a new area of interest as a result. My best advice is to be flexible. My child has taken a number of classes he wasn’t really interested in to fill out a semester schedule. One or two he grew to enjoy; others, he just put in the time and fulfilled a requirement.</p>
<p>The reason for the registration challenges are many. Yes, UVa is a large university. UVa doesn’t require students to select a major when they apply, so it is harder to anticipate demand for various courses. Interestingly, another complicating factor is AP/IB credits – because so many UVa students arrive with a semester or two of college credit, there are no longer “typical” first-year or second year course-loads. This leads to additional challenges for departments in trying to set up classes. </p>
<p>Other problems relate to the faculty – there was a hiring freeze for a number of years due to declining state funding and the faculty is aging. Fewer professors has an obvious impact on course availability. Maybe not so obvious is the impact of an aging faculty. While some notable professors, including Ken Elzinga, choose to teach introductory courses, many long-tenured professors won’t teach them. Instead, many older faculty seek to teach “niche” classes related to their particular areas of interest and scholarship. These tend to be smaller 15 to 60 student classes. And they are often so specialized that there is only one teacher qualified to teach them. If they turn out to be popular, there will still be only a few able to take those classes during their UVa career.</p>
<p>But, as ChemUndergrad said above, the bottom line is students graduate in four years. In the College of Arts and Sciences, one has to absent extenuating circumstances justifying an exemption from the four-year requirement. However, you might not get to take every course offered at UVa that you wanted to take. As a second semester fourth year, my S was waitlisted on two of the four classes he wanted. He will nevertheless graduate on time this May. And, he wouldn’t trade his four years in Charlottesville for anything.</p>
<p>Hey guys, so I really REALLY wanted to be an Echols scholar. I have been wanting to be a part of that program since 10th grade, and I have wanted to go to UVa since I was 2. Sadly, I didn’t get the email. (which was sent out on my birthday, which made it a little more depressing.) anyways, I digress. The point is that I thought I had everything that they were looking for in an Echols scholar. I really have no idea what I did wrong. I have tried my hardest so that I could be accepted to this program, but apparently what I did didn’t work. Please respond, because I really am at a loss.</p>
<p>In the interest of full disclosure, I’m an Echols Scholar. But I have heard so many different stories from Echols kids that frankly, it seems a little random to me who gets in. I think they really looked for strong writing and lots of transfer credit(???) but I promise you Echols isn’t the be all and end all of your UVa experience.
I know several valedictorians, a guy in grad level math his first year, a girl who speaks fluent Polish, and another girl who speaks five(!) languages who are not Echols. One of the most organized, positive, and awesome girls in my dorm (she runs almost all the social stuff) is not Echols, and just got into WW by accident! Meanwhile, I’ve heard SATs of ~1700 from at least one Echols kid before. You are special and wonderful whether the Echols program accepted you or not, and given the wide variety of people accepted, it may just not have been your day when they were reviewing your app.
Old dorms are fun! Everyone’s outside all the time. It’s a bonding experience. Watson Webb and Balz Dobie? Lots of great people, but I don’t think we bond as much as people in Old Dorms. Plus, it’s an instant connection to other people you’ll meet, whereas I get eye rolls (though they’re warranted).
You’ll be fine. I promise. You can always reapply to Echols, but unless you really need to get into Spanish 1010, you’ll be fine. Some of the most interesting, cool people I’ve met have been outside of Echols.</p>
<p>I’m currently a 4th Year non-Echols RA in Balz-Dobie (a Echols Dorm) with a hall of Echols/Rodman scholars and non-Echols/Rodman scholars. Honestly if you asked me to tell you who is who on a first meeting I wouldn’t be able make a distinction between the two groups. I am equally impressed by my non-Echols/Rodman boys as I am with my Echols/Rodman boys. Furthermore, as a 4th year non-Echols Mathematics Major with a 3.954 GPA, I know for a fact you can definitely play ball with the Echols/Rodman scholars. I did. Actually, I kinda laughed when a bunch of my Echols Scholar connections didn’t get Phi Beta Kappa early and I did. In fact, not being Echols forced me to get the “Liberal Arts” component of Phi Beta Kappa done out of necessity =P</p>
<p>woo woo math majors rocking the phi beta kappa</p>
<p>That is a major weakness of the Echols program, in my opinion. I have some friends that swore off math/english and it’s…not great. Engineers and mathematicians need to be able to write and English majors have to understand taxes to some extent, at least! Fortunately, lots of majors require at least some humanities or math, and most Echols really like a wide array of stuff and took quite a few AP courses, anyway.</p>
<p>Hmm. I revisited this thread after a few weeks, and am glad I did. Based on ChemUndergrad’s posts (very helpful, thank you!), and responses to it, UVA just dropped lower on our list.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for sharing their perspectives.</p>
<p>My son is not an Echols, but he has been able to get into classes he wanted, with some patience. For some classes he had to wait until 2nd year. For one very popular class, he had to attend the class for a week and a half before he officially was allowed into it. I think that was a test by the professor - the prof wanted to separate out the students who really wanted to get into that class. </p>
<p>When he was on a wait list, he was told his number on the list, so he knew whether he should expect to get into the class or not.</p>
<p>In some cases, a prof is not allowed to accept additional students into a class because of fire code limits on a classroom.</p>
<p>The hope is that with the improving economy, the improving stock market (which impacts the U.'s $4 billion non-medical endowment), and the increase in giving to the U., that the U. will be able to bring the faculty numbers up to full strength. Most colleges cut back on positions during the Great Recession. UVa was one of the few colleges that did not lay off staff during those years, although most people had to endure pay freezes.</p>
<p>With many UVa faculty retirements expected, that can be a good thing. There has never been a better time for a university to find highly qualified faculty, particularly since so many other colleges are only hiring part-time adjuncts.</p>