Economics at LSE, Cambridge or Northwestern(MMSS)?

College Search & Selection
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<p>As a few people have pointed out, the Cambridge experience is different. The Oxbridge (Oxford and Cambridge) system is really and truly one (well two) of a kind. I spent my junior year at Oxford, so allow me to point out a few of the differences, which I think get lost on most Americans.</p>

<p>Cambridge (like Oxford) operates on the tutorial system. Basically, it works like this. You have one (or two) tutors. You meet with your tutor, generally one on one (sometimes there’s one other student there) for an hour a week. You bring your week’s work, generally an essay - though in econ this might be a problem set - and discuss it for that hour. The process is intense, and your tutor will know immediately if you don’t know your stuff. Slack off one week, and you will get caught. Outside of these one or two hours a week that you meet with your tutor, you have no firm commitments. There are lectures, but no one takes attendance and in many subjects, most of the students go only rarely if at all. You will basically spend most of your week in the library reading and learning on your own. That takes a lot of discipline, and many students don’t handle the pressure well. The attrition rate at Oxbridge is surprisingly high when compared to the elite American schools. Also, keep in mind, that the essays you turn in , don’t really matter much, all that is really is important is two sets of exams - one after your first year and one at the end. These are really high-stress affairs. If you don’t “test well”, you won’t be able to handle them. Finally, the Oxbridge system really depends on your tutors. If you get good ones, you’ll learn a lot and have a great time. If you get inferior ones, you’ll have a sorry experience.</p>

<p>Now, to turn to your initial questions. In terms of prestige, Cambridge has the most “general” prestige, but within economics, LSE wins hands down, and not just because it has “economics” in the name. </p>

<p>For employability, you say you want to go to grad school, so the answer is that where you go as an undergraduate doesn’t matter except very marginally. People will look at the institution where you got your Masters/PhD and once ever glance at your UG institution. All 3 of these schools situate you very well for grad school.</p>

<p>Social life depends on what you want. Cambridge has a lovely feel and social-life centered on an ancient university in a town that is centered on the university. Northwestern and LSE are both urban. Personally, London is my favorite city in the world, and I say go there, but be aware of what you’re getting - an enormous, international city. If you want a real “campus” feel, go to Cambridge. Also, don’t forget that the drinking age is 18 in the UK and 21 in the US, this does make a difference in terms of the social scene.</p>

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<p>potatoes345, Northwestern’s location is suburban with a traditional college campus. It’s near Chicago but it’s hardly urban. Students can hop on the train or take the intercampus shuttle into the city. Stop posting misconceptions about schools you don’t know about!</p>

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<p>Yes, Northwestern is not an urban campus, but it is an urban setting. It is centered on Chicago. Cambridge is not like that. If you really don’t understand the difference between the Cambridge environment and the Northwestern environment, then I simply can’t help you.</p>

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<p>potatoes345, Northwestern is within the city of Evanston (roughly 80,000), not the city of Chicago (roughly 3 million).</p>

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<p>Yes, tenishs I’m well aware of that. I’d like to remind you that the last time we crossed paths, you were insisting that Northwestern is basically in Chicago, while I was politely trying to point out that it’s 12 miles from the loop. I see that you just try to say whatever you think will make Northwestern look best… but that’s okay, not everyone can actually try to present facts.</p>

<p>Speaking as someone who lives about 13.5 miles from the loop, though in another direction, I will tell you this. If I meet someone, not from the Chicago area, and they ask where I’m from, I say “Chicago”. Why? Because the suburbs including Evanston are all in the Chicago metropolitan area. Chicago is the dominant force in all of those places.</p>

<p>If you’re from Cambridge, and someone asks where you’re from, you say “Cambridge” because it’s not a suburb. It is a city centered on the ancient University of Cambridge, and steeped in the associated traditions.</p>

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<p>@warblersrule86</p>

<p>last year, when I asked the professors and friends in my univ about the decision between Cam and UMich, the answer was quite obvious.
what you think about my statement is totally up to you, and I do not care. oxbridge maybe highly respected in your world, but not mine. I am sorry.</p>

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<p>One last thing to tack on about Cambridge that’s worth mentioning. All that anyone does in UK higher education right now is moan and groan about impending budget cuts. It’s anyone guess exactly what will happen, but there’s a very real possibility of devastating cuts to the budgets at Oxford and Cambridge that would have a significant (though as of yet unknown) effect on the quality and nature of instruction at those universities over the next several years. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.</p>

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<p>Seta, </p>

<p>Thanks first. I guess your case is about graduate school right? In terms of Business School, I also think that Umich is better than Cambridge (I don’t even know whether they have) for graduate studies. What I mean is that we are talking about undergraduate schools and I think it’s totally different from talking about graduate schools.</p>

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<p>warblersrule86,</p>

<p>Thanks for your information. May I ask you that what do you think of a student you are going to interview for graduate studies if he worked for a year after high school and then got his BA at Cambridge?</p>

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<p>Sam Lee, </p>

<p>Thanks. Your advice is really important. One of my friends’ sister works in HSBC and she told me that people went to US for UG often stay there and people went to UK often go back to their homeland after graduation. (she’s asian, I don’t know whether it works for other people) This to some extent shows that to find a job in UK is more difficule than that in the US.</p>

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<p>potatoes345,</p>

<p>Your experience alone says a lot since you have been in both situations. May I ask you how do you feel about your junior year at Oxford? Was it enjoyful? And Did you really like the tutorial system? Which education system do you prefer? Thanks a lot!!</p>

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<p>LemonHunter,
I certainly enjoyed Oxford, but I was also conscious of its flaws. Personally, I prefer the American system. The difference comes down partly to what kind of student you are and partly who your tutors are.</p>

<p>The best thing about the American system, in my opinion, is that you have the freedom to explore a broad variety of classes and disciplines. At Cambridge, you’ll be doing all economics all the time. If you’re really committed to economics, then go for it, but if you think you’d like to explore other areas, it’s not for you. Personally, I think one of the most valuable parts of my education has been its breadth. </p>

<p>The best and worst thing about Oxbridge is the tutorial system. Your experience will be exactly as good or bad as your tutors are. The tutor I worked with at Oxford during Michaelmas (the 1st term) was horrible. I hated that term and spent most of it wishing I was back in America. During Hilary and Trinity, though, I worked with excellent tutors. Those two terms were perhaps the most academically rewarding experience I’ve had. The trouble, though, is that there’s no buffer. In America, you have 4 or 5 professors at a time, if one of them sucks, it doesn’t ruin the semester. At Oxbridge, it’s not like that.</p>

<p>I must emphasize again that at Oxford and Cambridge all of the responsibility falls on you, and the work is very independent. I did very well at Oxford as a junior because I had reached a point where I could handle that, but I’m not sure that I would’ve been prepared for that level of independence straight out of high school. The transition from an American high school (you are from an American high school?) is even more intense than from a British one. As I said before, the attrition rate at Oxford and Cambridge is much higher than at elite American schools.</p>

<p>So, to succeed at Cambridge, you need to be a real “self-starter”. Be honest with yourself, is that a quality you have? You also need to be able to figure things out on your own, and you have to find that style of work interesting; it’s very different from what you experienced in high school, wherever you went. You also have to be able to handle a different kind of pressure than you’d typically experience in America. One of the interesting things about Oxford for me was how consistent the workload was - I wrote exactly the same amount every week. In America, on the other hand, there are periods of high activity (mid-terms and finals) and lower activity when you can afford to slack off a little bit. Of course, at the same time, Oxford/Cambridge give new meaning to “high stakes testing” as essentially everything ends up riding on two sets of exams.</p>

<p>There’s an old joke in Britain: “Why are Oxford and Cambridge such good preparation for the civil service?” Answer “Because you learn how to explain to important people why you didn’t do what you were supposed to do,” and it’s probably true. Tutors vary, but many tutors will assign you an amount of work that they know is impossible, just to see how you deal with it. Many tutors also won’t tell you how well you’re actually doing. In America you get back a grade on every paper/test. At Oxford and Cambridge, many tutors just give you a mark at the end. Some of them enjoy playing mind games about your progress. On the whole, Cambridge will be challenging, intimidating, and sometimes overwhelming, but it will also be rewarding if you make it through.</p>

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<p>I’d go to LSE. It’s the best option on your list.</p>

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<p>potatoes345,</p>

<p>Is there any way I can know in advance who my tutor is? For example, by looking at the Economics Dept website? I noticed that there are only 5 professors there in my college(Churchill). Is my tutor going to be one of them? Actually one of my friends who’s now doing Chemistry at Cambridge said that her supervisor(is supervisor same as tutor?) is a student doing PhD. </p>

<p>I guess I am the type of person that is self-motivated to learn new things. So either at Northwestern where I will be pushed by the trend to study or at Cambridge, I will try my best.</p>

<p>I am now thinking about two plans. First is to intern (or to be an assistant of a college economics professor) in my gap year and then attend Cambridge. Second is to attend Northwestern this fall. As I don’t very much like lectures and citi-centered school, LSE would be my last option I think, although it’s three year and its economics dept is the most famous one.</p>

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<p>bruno123,</p>

<p>Thanks though I might not go there. Or could you explain your reasons?</p>

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<p>So ED is voided if an applicant chooses to go to a school outside the US? Maybe it’s just me, but that doesn’t sound fair. All the students who want to go to international schools might as well apply ED somewhere that isn’t their top choice then. If a school’s not a place someone would absolutely attend assuming all the financials work out, then they shouldn’t deserve the same benefits of ED as the kid who utilizes ED as it was intended to be used. JMO.</p>

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<p>schrizto, don’t assume adcoms are not aware of the, what shall we call it… flexibility, inherent in the ED process for an international applicant.</p>

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<p>It doesn’t look like this is something limited to international students. If what people are saying in this thread are true, then US citizens would also be able to choose to attend a school outside the US and override an ED acceptance.</p>

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<p>My reasons are purely academic. Out of the 3 schools you mentioned, LSE has the strongest economics department, academically speaking. </p>

<p>Answering another of your questions, a “supervisor” at Cambridge is the same as a “tutor” at Oxford. Also, you may have a supervisor/tutor from a college other than your own. That is especially true if you happen to be affiliated with one of the smaller colleges. Finally, you may also have different supervisors for different papers.</p>

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<p>The difference is that the ED school doesn’t have the punitive power (for lack of a better term) to inform the other schools that so-and-so was accepted ED. There’s an unspoken agreement among top schools that they honor one another’s ED and if need be, they reserve the right to revoke an admissions offer to someone who is playing the game and double-dipping. NU could technically inform Oxford / Cambridge that someone is in violation of their ED, but how much they’d care … I doubt all that much. What obligations do O / C have to any American universities?</p>