We encouraged our kids to find one or two EC’s that they were really interested in, and not to waste time belonging to a lot of clubs. For our son, debate and newspaper absorbed a huge amount of his time, and he won state-wide awards in both activities. These, on top of his main hobby (fantasy baseball), ended up defining what he became in his career after college, where he majored in economics. His h.s. GPA was so-so (3.9ish) and his test scores were outstanding. But he was an accomplished person.
Post # 20- that gpa was stellar.
@am9799, yeah, ECs matter for more than the tippy-top. From what I have observed, they matter for many privates (and especially LACs) for a long way down. It’s more that schools can be less choosy the farther down the rankings you go, so they’ll want to shape a class with kids with great ECs, but they also are willing to take kids or throw money at kids with only great stats in order to keep their 75-25 percentiles acceptably high.
Go to each college’s Common Data Set, and it will tell you whether that college considers EC as “Very Important,” “Important,” “Considered,” or “Not Considered.” As far as EC goes, I’ve seen all sorts of different responses. Harvard, I believe, “considers” ECs, whereas Princeton considers them “Very Important.” However, when it comes to “Talent,” you’ll see that it’s always “Very Important,” particularly with highly selective colleges. Of course, what’s on EC’s often portray special talents, and not all talents are equally desired by top colleges, either, as they may have a glut of particular talents that particular admissions cycle.
This Southeast Asian girl got accepted at all Ivies plus Stanford etc. I’d say it’s because of her ECs. Her interview mentioned her elementary school teacher’s encouragement. She announced her acceptances on twitter.
Have to agree that grades and scores are not enough at the top. impressive ECs at a national or international level (RSI, Intel, Siemens, published research in a major journal, national writing awards, etc.) are the difference between the 4.0 uw 2350 +SAT kid that gets multiple HYPMS admits and the kid with the same scores (particularly true for Asian males) that gets a single or no admit and is wait listed everywhere else. Legacy helps as well. At son’s HS, the kids with the multiple admits were all recognized at the national or international level. The single admits were, for the most part, legacies.
But the kids with “merely” state level awards, or activities that are hard to measure also get into top colleges. I saw no evidence that kids were only getting into legacy schools - they dominated single admits because they applied ED or SCEA and then were done.
Our Science Olympiad team operated on a shoestring and could never compete with the big guys with deep pockets. But we got to States every year, and did well in some of the events regularly. We were never going to go to Nationals so no Natonal Level awards. That didn’t seem to hurt too much, the top SO kids all went to top 25 colleges.
just wanted to say “great question”!
One thing about EC’s is that the list has to make a coherent sense to the adcom. If it’s all over the place with no rhyme or reason, the adcoms would question the merits of those activities. Obviously, some activities are genuine passion of yours that are totally different. That’s where essays need to bring those interests together so that adcoms can have a good picture of you as a person. The worst thing you can do with EC’s is to just put a bunch of short-lived activities together that only leads the adcoms to conclude that you only participated in those just to fill the EC list.
My kid had basically NO ECs. She got into several not well known privates with merit aid
Given my introvert D’s personality, my frugal ways, and the fact we live in West Texas, I know D won’t have great ECs. So we choose Auto Merit schools. This takes the stress out for us. Luckily she is a strong tester.
Although sometimes EC’s can make a difference with selective “holistic” admissions, especially when, say, the orchestra needs a bassoon, I think that really it is more about what the EC says about the student than the EC itself.
Musicians and dancers are dedicated, disciplined and work hard- and maybe they collaborate well. I was struck by the kid who made origami earrings and sold them: that kind of thing really stands out. I read about a young person who went to South America to collect butterflies. Someone might go to Iceland to take photographs. Etc. Creative, entrepreneurial, original types who get great letters of recommendation about their many interests, talents and most of all “character.”
That said, some of these activities take money. I think admissions offices are at least trying to be sensitive to money issues and honor the kids working at the ice cream stand or local drug store. Some EC’s require a parent at home to drive, and of course to pay. There is a lot of talk about “socioeconomic diversity” on elite campuses, and time will tell if they really mean it.
I agree with compmom. ECs can make a difference but not always. If you are rich or famous it doesn’t matter. Some kids are admitted on academics only. Everything needs to be taken in context.
It’s likely that multiple ECs (sports, music and others) were the reason why this Midwest white boy got accepted to all Ivies plus Stanford (and MIT).
http://www.wday.com/news/4244075-fargo-north-senior-accepted-all-8-ivy-league-schools
Being from North Dakota probably helped
I’d say that it’s pointless to engage in EC’s just for the point of looking good for colleges.
But when the student has a strong, independent desire or passion to participate in an EC - in addition to the benefit of the EC’s themselves, they can be rewarded in college admissions because of the value of the EC to the college and/or the story it tells about the student. And that could be the key to admissions in a college where the student’s grades and test scores would otherwise be unremarkable.
But the point is that kids with those interests will pursue them regardless, and most will later structure their college search around schools that will allow them to continue to participate in whatever it was that excited them – and in so doing tend to gravitate toward schools that value what they value, whether it is a sport, musical instrument, community service, whatever.
So I think EC’s matter a LOT… but only when they are important to the student irrespective of college admissions.
In looking back at the results my son had from college admissions, I have concluded that ECs make more of a difference than I thought they did. He is an excellent student (1570 SAT and straight As at a top boarding school, with a very challenging set of classes). He’s also a well-rounded kid – as good at humanities as science/math, nearly fluent in a difficult foreign language, plays two varsity sports, well-liked by faculty, and generally just a nice kid (if I do say so myself!). I thought that would be pretty much sufficient to get him in anywhere he’d want to go. But it turns out that above-average white kids from the Northeast are pretty much a dime a dozen, and you have to find some way to really stand out. While he participates in a number of ECs, he doesn’t have any particularly amazing accomplishments in any of them and he’s spread himself out with several different types of ECs, no real common theme. Given the extremely substantial legacy connections he has at Princeton, I have to believe that it was a lack of astonishingly great ECs that landed him on the WL there. But c’est la vie. He did the stuff he was interested in and didn’t feign interest in other things. (I may however be a little bit more insistent that my younger kids be more focused!)
I struggle with this.
Our S19 is running XC and Track. Does it for the comradery and friendships but isn’t a star. Still, it shows dedication. They practice year round for 12 hours per week including the summers.
He loves to draw and paint and has some serious talent but doesn’t want to be pushed to do any more than he wants to do. He’s taking all of the honors art classes at school and will take AP Portfolio. He will have a portfolio to attach to his applications. He thinks that’s good enough on the art front. I think he should enter some contests (just with work he already has - no additional work needed) but he’s not interested. He takes a private art class with a local woman and she’s awesome. Been with her weekly since fourth grade. I’ve asked him to consider taking a two week class this summer at the Art Institute of Chicago but he says he’s got enough going on. I’m fully aware that I’m trying to make his story more impressive, but I also think he would like these classes.
He’s taking photos for the yearbook next year and is happy about that. He wants to lead the photographers senior year but doesn’t have room in his class schedule to take Yearbook class (which is required for yearbook leadership). He now has to consider taking zero period gym so he can fit that class into senior year! He loves taking photos and I think working on the yearbook still shows his “art” interest but I still think he could do more on the art front.
I’ve suggested he join the junior board at our local Community House for volunteer work and leadership. He dragged his feet but ended up inviting some friends and now they love it. So…I don’t know how much to push him for anything because, who knows, he might end up really liking it and it looks good too! He will be applying to selective LACs and I really do think his ECs will matter.
Also keep in mind that the Common Data Set for each college will let you know how importnat “Extracurricular activities” are…Relative importance of each of the following academic and nonacademic factors in first-time, firstyear,
degree-seeking (freshman) admission decisions.
Private schools may show “Very Important” but Big State schools may just have it “considered”
It is really about are you admitting on stats only or not?
My D had a nice set of ECs, but nothing that would really set her apart. Where they were useful was in generating essay ideas–lots of raw material to talk about leadership, significant accomplishments, etc. She had one Honors College app that required 5 or 6 essays; and while I remember her taking a long time to finish them, it wasn’t because she didn’t have anything to say.
My S had to write a total of two essays for his applications: the Common App essay, and the “Anything else to tell us?” essay. He had very few ECs, but they were things he truly enjoyed and spent many hours on. He doesn’t like to write, but he knocked out both essays in a couple of evenings because he was found it easy to write about the ECs.
Two other things:
- Jobs were significant ECs for both of my kids.
- Volunteering was minimal (D) to practically non-existent (S). They each tried a few things, but nothing clicked in terms of interest, time commitment, etc., so they did not continue to search for something just to “check off a box.”
Both did very well in terms of admissions/merit at match schools.