When ECs are more important than academics...

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm not sure what I'm looking for here.... maybe just some commiseration and a chance to vomit my worries onto the keyboard via CC (sorry, that was gross.)</p>

<p>My daughter is bright and has always done well academically. She's got an uw gpa of 3.95 (one B her whole hs career), is excelling in an IB program, etc etc. She's poised and well spoken and a great kid. </p>

<p>She's captain of her school's dance team and it is All. About. Dance. She is passionate about dance and dance team, and truly could care less about academics, though she continues to get good grades. She has no idea what major she might like, she's been accepted to 6 schools, waiting on 2, good merit aid, and really, could give a rat's patootie about the school's offerings. She wants to be on the college's dance team. </p>

<p>This is not classical ballet-focused dance. It's competition dance team. They're great dancers, but it's more athletic, more showy, more-- gah-- say, NBA dancers dancing. And though she's a great dancer, there's no guarantee she'd even make the dance team at the colleges she's looking at. </p>

<p>Her dad and I are overeducated nerds. Okay, he's a nerd, I'm not. :D I partied like crazy in college and even in med school, but I still was academically nerdy. It's strange for us to have this gorgeous, popular girl who is smart but cares a lot more about something we see as... not important, in the long run. We're so proud of her dancing, but we're worried.</p>

<p>She eventually petered out on scholarship apps but of course put her heart and soul into the one for the state dance team association-- three essays, etc. For a scholarship of about $600, lol. But that's the one she wants. </p>

<p>Anyone out there with experience or words of wisdom for me? We're trying not to push her re choosing a school, but it may come down to dance teams. Yikes. If her passion was music, or AcDec, or something... college-ier, it would easier to let her go for it. It just feels like college is a secondary goal for her. Advice?</p>

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<p>Is she choosing say, Alabama over Vanderbilt? </p>

<p>or</p>

<p>Is she choosing say, UT-Chattanooga over Vanderbilt?</p>

<p>The first seems to not be a big deal as both can offer her a great education. The second, well…what do you think?</p>

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<p>College is a big investment, whether you are full pay or not. Most families really need to stretch their resource in order to afford a college EDUCATION. Your daughter needs to grasp the idea that going to college is for academic learning, not to pursue ECs. </p>

<p>I´ve had this discussion with few friends about their kids´sports in college. Those kids were Div I athletes, they would only go to a school if they could continue with their sports. Most of them ended up quiting their sports, and at the end of day, they still needed their diploma to get a job or into a graduate school.</p>

<p>It appears your D is capable of keeping up her school work and dance, so she won´t have to quite dancing in order to keep up with her school wokr. If she could get into a college that has a dance program AND a rigorous academic program, then there would be no issue. I don´t think she should settle on a college because of dance. </p>

<p>It is very normal for a HS kid to think EC is the most important thing, they do out grow it later on, but you don´t want them to make decision which may effect them in the long term because of EC.</p>

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<p>Jaylynn, as I read your post I empathize. My D, a top student, cares more about her EC (track & field) than academics. Sure she gets As but the passion for academics is not at the same level…yet. I was just thinking that my D needs to chose a college that will allow her to run & jump AND encounter inspiring teachers & pursue academic challenges. College will hopefully be a time of growth and discovery for our children. </p>

<p>Let her dance! That focus, commitment, and sense of purpose will eventually spill over into other things in life…her major, a career, parenthood, community involvement.</p>

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<p>I would suggest she attend college where she has the best chance of making the school’s dance team and good academics.
Dance is her passion and so you and she need to do research.
Travel to the schools she got acceptances to sit in on squad rehearsals, talk to the dance directors, plan an over night visit preferably staying with a host on the dance squad.
If she fails to make the squad or has an injury she can she still get a good education?</p>

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<p>I agree with oldfort’s comments, and have also witnessed the"shedding" of the passion for the EC, particularly sports related ECs once the kids are in college. </p>

<p>I know kids who grabbed a chance to play a sport/ participate on a dance team in college who came to regret it. They quit their sport, then looked around and didn’t really like the college itself very much.</p>

<p>A wise college coach who recruited my son asked him to pretend he couldn’t play his sport while he looked at the college, and to ask himself if he would want to be there without the sport. After an overnight visit, my son realized that the college was way too small for him. Instead of playing at a small, liberal arts DIII school, he is playing his sport on the nationally ranked club team at our state flagship, and enjoying every minute of it.</p>

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<p>Yup, yup, yup, you’re all right on the money. </p>

<p>The schools she’s looking at are midsize LACs, good schools, not tippy-top cutthroat schools. She’d get a good education at any of them, though it would be nice if she had an idea of what her major might be. Some of them have good dance teams, one has one that gets seen a fair amount because of its basketball team (Gonzaga). </p>

<p>I don’t discount her EC; she’s so passionate about it. I want her to continue to love it. She’s been in contact with dance team members at some of the schools and will hopefully meet with some of them at upcoming accepted student visits. </p>

<p>But it’s true that it’s the education not the dance that will matter in the end. Thanks for your input. I’m thinking, thinking…</p>

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<p>I have a dance-crazed daughter too, OP, and her one non-negotiable was that the college had to have an outlet for her to continue to dance (without majoring). She’s a junior now and has kept her grades up, while spending 10 hours a week on her dance activities. That’s pretty comparable to her HS schedule; she learned long ago to organize and manage her time so that she could do both – and I’m sure your D is the same way. That’s a wonderful thing for them to learn at such an early age. </p>

<p>They are dancers; it’s how they think of themselves. And we have to admit it – the lessons they’ve learn at the studio and on the stage have contributed in large measure to the wonderful young women they are now. If we try to get them to set aside something they love so much, we are not only fighting a losing battle; we’re doing them a disservice.</p>

<p>But you can help her keep a clear head about it. Don’t tell her that dance is unimportant in this decision, but help her sort out the options. Help her to include other criteria in the decision, so that she ends up with the best combination of academics, financial aid, and dance opportunities.</p>

<p>ETA – From your last post, I think she’s on the right track. She’s going to get a fine education at an LAC, and the small size will give her opportunities to exercise leadership that she wouldn’t have at a bigger school. </p>

<p>College may be a secondary goal for her right now, but if she follows her passion to college, she’ll still end up with a degree.</p>

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<p>I agree. Our daughter had several criteria for college selections and one was to be able to play the oboe/English horn in the college orchestra (not a band…an orchestra) and take music lessons while in college but not as a music major/minor. She also wanted schools with well regarded engineering and science programs, and she wanted a “pleasing climate”. She only looked at schools that had all of her criteria. ALL OF THEM…not just the orchestra.</p>

<p>DD said that having that playing in the orchestra was her “relaxation” in contrast to her engineering and biology courses. She looked forward to her lessons, and orchestra rehearsals every week. BUT she would not have chosen a college based solely on this activity…it had to have the strong sciences as well.</p>

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<p>We have the similar situation…dd is only looking at schools where she can participate in the band. She’s been involved in this activity since she was 6, and is getting her beginning level coaches certification and will also be doing judging certification in a year. </p>

<p>There are so many schools out there, I believe a fit can be made for more than just academics. </p>

<p>In our case, dd is interested in three majors, but has been focusing on one in particular. Of the schools we’ve been looking at, only two don’t have the major. So I feel we’ll find a fit.</p>

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<p>jaylynn, I feel you! H and I are the nerdiest, and we always imagined D at…well, Oxford would have been good, lol. D’s passion for theater began when she was …8, maybe? And it has only grown. I always thought it would shift but no. She did very well in high school, while putting in hours and hours at the theater every week, and in the summer, every minute. She will go to college based on auditions-- her grades, scores hardly matter to the places she’s applied.</p>

<p>It’s a little different but there’s that same thing-- an overriding passion that really powers the rest of her life. I think that’s as important a gift as intellectual curiosity or so many other things and that the drive behind it will morph into something else as life carries her along. To have a chance to follow that passion wherever it takes her, when it’s such a great motivating force…is very exciting, and worth so much. So-- I think you’re both lucky here, partly because you don’t yet know how this will grow into its next phase, just that it will be really fun to see how it happens. </p>

<p>So, yes, I’d find the place she likes best that fits your financial situation and let her go. That’s what I’m doing-- the liberal arts education may suffer some but she can return to it when she’s older, and I think someone who’s used to letting their ambition carry them along is likely to do everything with more vigor and commitment, as the time comes.</p>

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<p>Thank you all very much. I love your post, LasMa, and Gwen, I’ve been reading along about your D’s auditions. See, that seems like it’s on altogether another level to me-- that kind of acting talent CAN translate into a wonderful college major and career. My daughter’s dance involvement is not at that level; if she was going to be a balletically trained dance major, that would be different. This kind of dance… sigh. Can you feel my [slight] scorn for it? I bet you can! It’s just not the same kind of art that “real” dance, or theater, or music could be. But it’s still her passion. I resolve to help her find a great college where she can have intellectual curiosity, hopefully find an academic passion, and still dance her heart out.</p>

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<p>I was very sad when D1 couldn´t continue with her ballet training when she got to college. She didn´t think the ballet classes were up to par. But she ended up finding a local ballet school where she taught few classes a week. She worked with skaters who needed some ballet training, and even some athletes. She started with only few students (drop in class), but it became quite popular, and she got a lot of satisfaction out of teaching. She also joined the school´s oldest dance club and met many other semi-professional dancers like her. Their performances were very well attended by students and local residents.</p>

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<p>jaylynn, yes-- there’s an intellectual component missing from this kind of dance…but she’s your daughter and that part of her has got to be there, ready to stream in with the rest (or she wouldn’t have the grades she does!). She’s got two parents who made their lives out of intellect (well, I say this because you describe yourselves as nerds), so maybe that is something she takes for granted, almost-- she can develop it anytime. I hope you keep posting – I’m sure you will find the great college you’re looking for and that she will have a great experience there!</p>

<p>ps-- H is nerdier than I am too, so much so that I think D was maybe diverted. She’s making a choice to be different, partly because it’s her nature and partly in a quiet rebellion against his values-- or the big pile of books that goes with those values.</p>

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<p>oldfort-- yes, if she doesn’t make a college dance team she should be able to find a studio/company/club where she can continue to hone her skills, maybe use her leadership skills, etc. </p>

<p>Gwen–you’re a sweetie. She is the child of two physicians. A terrible fate for a smart girl who is much more interested in dance team and boyfriend. Luckily we have not told her, “Neurosurgeon! Or ELSE!”</p>

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<p>I guess one question is, of all the schools that she’s been accepted to that are affordable, are there any that you would be upset for her to go to?</p>

<p>If not, and she chooses the one that she thinks will work best for dance, and they’re all LACs…I think you’re good. At any LAC she’ll be able to pursue most academic interests, even change her major (I did, 3 times!), and also be able to dance.</p>

<p>Discussing the other considerations there may be - year abroad programs, location, whatever is also a good idea.</p>

<p>She loves to dance…she can do it and also do well academically…better than spending all her free time drinking or whatever, right?</p>

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<p>jaylynn, right off the top, my first thought reading your post was that this girl is never going to gain the freshman 15 (AKA “dorm butt”). She will stay in shape and work off the stress that all students encounter. Sounds like a plan. </p>

<p>My older S is a junior in college and dating a girl who is very bright, and also seriously into dance. In fact, he brought her home for a visit this w/e, and they had to get back to school a bit early due to her dance rehearsal this evening for their upcoming show.</p>

<p>I say, as long as your D is also getting good grades and working on her degree, dance away. It’s fun, it’s great exercise, she’ll meet other kids who are also into dance…and she’ll get an education.</p>

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<p>I guess I don’t see the problem. If she is as passionate as you say, why not encourage her to look into that as a career, not so much being a Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader, but getting a business/marketing degree and explore owning/operating a dance program after she graduates? It sounds like she has applied to great schools that not only meet her academic needs but her EC’s.</p>

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<p>When are dance team tryouts at these schools? I know cheerleading tryouts are in the spring for the upcoming year and some schools let high school senior tryout.</p>

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<p>Great points all. Yes, you’re all right; she should be fine and get a good education and hopefully get to dance, too. She’s not interested in business, but that could change. Dorm butt-- ha. </p>

<p>toledo-- most of the schools have tryouts in the fall right around registration, it looks like. She couldn’t try out in the spring-- too far, most of these schools. Though you’re right; the U of Oregon (where we live) allows hs kids to try out for the cheer team in the spring. </p>

<p>And don’t think the academic nerd doesn’t cringe every time she sees the grammar problem in my thread’s title. <em>shudder</em></p>