I think this is exactly right. And i think kids really hurt themselves when they or their parents load up on a bunch of activities because they think it is what schools’ want to see.
A few years ago, my son went through high school with a group of 5-6 friends who all did very well academically, took the same IB curriculum and whose stats were within spitting distance of each others. I got to know most of them very well because I taught the mock trial team they participated in together, and because they spent a great deal of time eating pizza and playing x box in my basement. They all participated in a number of activities in high school. All but one also had that “one thing” that they really enjoyed and poured themselves into. One kid rowed, another was really involved in latin club, a third was heavy into robotics, my son played football, etc. They were, in the words of the school’s president, “well lopsided”. The remaining kid was programmed to the nth degree. A ton of ECs, volunteering, etc., but nothing that really stood out. When admissions decisions for “those schools” came out, that kid had the most disappointing day and I am convinced it was because he appeared packaged and not authentic the way some of his buddies did. It was really unfortunate too, because the kid is a helacious musician and really enjoys composing. But he never had the time to delve into that in high school, because he was always running from mock trial to debate to stage crew to marching band to yearbook.
IDK, The family next door to us (we live in a competitive NE state) had two kids who were both valedictorians in their respective grades. Both had high GPAs and high test scores. They each only had one activity- the son had jazz band and the daughter key club.
Both applied to multiple ivy’s and top private schools. Neither were accepted to any. Both only accepted to state schools and Seton Hall (their safety schools). Both were disappointed in how their college acceptances played out…
IMO, It was the lack of ECs that played a big factor. Plenty of students from same HS (in their respective grades) w lessor stats accepted to ivies and top private schools…
@runswimyoga I hear those stories all of the time. Jazz band. Key Club. Not interesting. Not to say they should have done something else or something more. If that’s what they were “interested in”, then they should have expected early on that their applications may not be competitive. Kids need to be told his stuff. From parents, from guidance counselors so that they aren’t surprised. I told our S19 that it stinks but the bottom line is that he has to find something he likes. And do it to the best of his ability and go above and beyond IF he wants to go to X kind of schools. If he isn’t interested in going to a super competitive college, that’s fine with us but I didn’t want him coming to us junior year with high GPA and SAT and upset because he didn’t know what else it took to get a decent shot.
I think that it depends upon where the student wants to go. Both of my daughters were accepted where they wanted to go, one with “okay” ECs and one with almost no ECs. If you want to go to an Ivy League university or equivalent in the USA then in most cases you probably need great ECs. Otherwise with very strong grades and very strong SATs it doesn’t seem to matter much. Outside the USA it doesn’t seem to matter at all.
I can’t help but wonder if it makes the most sense to do the ECs that you love, and apply to the schools where you can keep doing them. So, D17 did not apply to Wellesley because they do not have a dance department, and dance is her EC, and she wants to keep dancing regardless of what she majors in. She also did not feel like she had a hook for their application, so the app would waste time and money. Whereas the schools that have really cool dance departments were interested in her (except Barnard, which has a great dance department and waitlisted her, but that was most likely a stats problem). In an ideal world would it not work holistically in this way?
Don’t underestimate the power of an unpackaged kid with genuine and self motivated interests combined with great grades and test scores. It may not be a ticket into HYPMS but if this kid nails the interview, writes a powerful essay, and applies widely to colleges outside of his geographic region, he’s going to have his pick of great schools.
It’s a lot easier for an unpackaged kid with authentic passions to have a great interview and also have the confidence to write a terrific essay in his own voice.
@soxmom, all isn’t lost! I think that the Air Force really likes kids who have played a lot of video games because they have such quick reaction times. And don’t forget that gaming design is a lucrative career field. And what about being a surgeon with robotics? I’m sure there are various other careers that also value these skills. I could envision a hilarious essay about his mad skills, like I Love Lucy at the chocolate factory.
@melvin123, it so happens that one of his favorite ‘videogames’ are all the flight simulators. He has the technical details for approaches and take offs at multiple random airports all over the world memorized as a result. So Air Force definitely has to be in the running for him at some point!
@runswimyoga Jazz band could make a great one-and-only EC depending on the passion of the kid. If he is spending 20-30 hours a week involved in an audition-only band, volunteering at an after-school music program for at-risk youth, playing in a praise worship with his church, composing his own music, spending summers at Interlochen or Juiliard, making all-state band … the stakes are raised. A student who is really “jazzed up” (sorry, couldn’t resist) by giving an interview on how Glen Miller changed musical history or how he wants to emulate Harry Connick Jr. by establishing a music program in his town is on a different level than the kid who spends fourth period in jazz band at school and doesn’t touch his instrument the rest of the day.
@tutumom2001 Good point about the jazz band. Kids with that much interest in something are desirable…but a student shouldn’t fake it if they don’t love it. I think we all need to acknowledge that there are kids who LOVE something and kids who don’t. Our ballerina daughter STILL wants to get the studio 90 minutes before class just to be there because she loves it so much…even after dancing for 11 years.
If a student hasn’t found what he loves when he’s 16, it doesn’t make him a lesser student. Lots of people bloom later. Kids and parents just need to accept that it’s sometimes the kids who found a passion early who stand out in applications. That’s just the way it is.
As “EC” means “extra-curricular” then every kid has them, whether if it is a job for pay or reading books/magazines or, yes, video game playing. Some may require skills or show attributes that colleges value more than others.
Maybe what ECs distinguish is kids who excel at academics AND do time-consuming activities from those who must spend all their time studying to maintain similar grades/test scores?
@OHMomof2 Agree. ECs show that high stat kids can manage their time. I know one student who, when asked what he does for extra-curriculars, said he “does school”. LOL. Meaning that his class load is so crazy that he has no time for anything else. Some kids like this take zero period gym so they can take an extra AP class. Or they take Health (which can’t be taken for honors credit) during the summer so it doesn’t count towards GPA!
btw, I don’t know any student like this who is not pushed by their parents to bag ECs and study, study, study. It never seems to be the child’s choice in the cases I know.
Extra curriculars are just that, things you do outside of your regular curriculum. I believe colleges like to know what a student’s ECs are because they tell them information about a student that class work will not. The idea of having an “impressive” EC or combination thereof to impress a college seems like it defeats the purpose and really doesn’t tell the university much about you. Your ECs are your ECs. I’d be much more interested in what a student does that they would do even if a college would never know.
Question: my kid is self working through “Art of Problem Solving” math, such as number theory, probability, rigorous Algebra topics that are not taught in school . No online class, no tutor, (she is way beyond me in math). She has no interest in math competitions. She has not done any math camps. she is not a genius, not brilliant, but a strong math student who puts her head down and grinds away. Math is her favorite subject and she will most likely have a math related major…
@BingeWatcher
If your D applies to a variety of schools she will probably have to answer a bunch of questions or write short essays for who knows what prompts. You never know when things come handy
My younger son took the aviation test when he was applying for Officer Training School. He did so well, they kept asking him are you SURE you don’t want to be a pilot. He said there was no question that video game experience is a huge help on that test. (BTW they fly planes in the Navy too. )
I think working ones way through the stuff in the Art of Problem Solving is a worthwhile thing to get into your application somewhere. I’m pretty sure my older kid mentioned doing some of the Opensource Courseware stuff at MIT in passing in his essay.
My free application advice is to take a little time to think about the story you want to tell. Try a few essays and see what works. Something that seems like a good main essay may turn out better as the answer to your favorite EC, even if it isn’t a typical EC.
What does she bring to the college that another student doesn’t?
College ad coms are not in the business of passing judgment on the choices students make. They are in the business of assembling a class with a variety of interests and talents represented. So an applicant with a particular, less common academic strength or talent, or history of participation in activities of value to the college, brings something to the table that others don’t.
The reason colleges value EC’s is because it gives them a preview of the role(s) the student is likely to later fill on campus, not just in class but as part of the campus community.
@BingeWatcher – I guess what I would answer is that if this is truly what she loves doing, she does it in her spare time and would rather do that than anything else – then yes, that “counts for something.” It counts for a lot. It’s what makes her unique. I think you should treasure that, no matter what colleges she gets into.
The standard advice would be to encourage her to display her love of math in more visible ways – through math competitions or whatever.
ECs matter. And writing well about yourself matters. I worked with a student who had a 28 on her ACT, and she got into Cal. She applied to a humanities major, and had some very unique ECs (including a year of dancing in NYC before deciding she did not want to be a professional dancer).
Here’s a quote from a UCLA app reader:
More and more besides grade performance, community service over a long period of time in leadership roles, sports, clubs and special interest w/ leadership roles over an elongated time hold great value. And of course a great essay doesn’t hurt.
)