<p>Hi everyone!
I’m currently a junior in high school but Barnard has been my dream school for awhile now. I plan to apply ED next fall. However, I’m in need of financial aid. I’ve heard that for those who need financial aid, ED is not a wise decision. But, if I do get accepted by Barnard next fall and receive a reasonable amount of aid, I would definitely go. That being said, I don’t plan to compare Barnard’s aid with other schools’ aid to decide what school I would attend. Though another school might offer more aid, I would still attend Barnard if the tuition is reasonable. Should I apply ED or not?</p>
<p>No, if you truly need financial aid to attend, you should not apply ED. Apply RD. Roughly 85% of the students who are accepted to Barnard each year are accepted in the RD round.</p>
<p>No college, including Barnard, will give you a final aid award until they have your financial information in the spring. Estimated awards can change between fall and spring. Also, if you are accepted in the fall and the offer you receive does not seem reasonable – and you turn down Barnard for those reasons – then there is no going back – even if you don’t get any better offers in the spring.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that information is correct. That is, I believe some schools recognize insufficient financial aid as a valid reason for withdrawing from an ED commitment. Barnard alone can give you a definitive answer though, so don’t rely on CC. You can also get an idea of what you might expect from their online estimator.</p>
<p>calmom, I’m really scared to apply RD though because I heard it was tougher. But my financial situation is hindering my choices. That doesn’t really seem fair though for Barnard to change their award after some time because it can hugely affect many students’ decisions. But I can see where they’re coming from because they want to be sure of the financial situation.</p>
<p>notakid, are you saying that if I do get accepted, I can contact Barnard for a definite answer to my financial aid question?? And thank you for the tip!</p>
<p>No, what I was saying is that you should ask Barnard exactly what the policy is before you decide whether to apply ED.</p>
<p>I believe a lot of schools do allow the admitted students to pull out if the school cant meet their financial need, and barnards one of these schools. But that wasn’t my question. I was asking if I should still apply ED if I’m in need of financial aid but am not so dependent on it that I will absolutely choose the school that provides me with the most aid. Since most people advise those in need of financial aid to compare their packages before making a decision.</p>
<p>I applied and was accepted ED even though I need quite a bit of financial aid. I still haven’t gotten my aid package yet so I can’t tell you if they assumption that they don’t give aid to EDers is true, but the admissions officers swear up and down that the calculator on the website is accurate (or rather, as accurate as the information it receives). So put your information into the calculator, see what number comes up, and if it seems doable then I’d say go for it. </p>
<p>Also, there is always the option of appealing to the financial aid office if you are accepted without substantial aid. And, worst case scenario, you can back out if they don’t offer you enough aid (I’m fairly certain that’s the only way you can get out of an ED agreement). </p>
<p>If you truly feel that Barnard is the right place for you then I urge you to pursue ED, because I can honestly say that I doubt I’d be accepted had I applied RD. Plus the feeling of knowing where you’re going this early is so nice.</p>
<p>First, nobody here is assuming that they don’t give aid to EDers. They do. The difference is that in the ED round, Barnard will not have all the information they will use to determine your final aid package. Your parents income tax forms, for example.</p>
<p>So Calmom was not suggesting that Barnard will just randomly change what they offer you. She was stating (correctly) that you will not know your final aid package until the spring. And, really, until you get your statement in June every year before you start school in the fall.</p>
<p>here’s the worst case scenario for someone applying ED who needs financial aid:</p>
<p>Say you get accepted (hooray) and you get a financial aid offer that you and your parents decide just is not enough for your family to be able to afford for you to got there. So you have to tell Barnard “no, thank you” and look elsewhere.</p>
<p>Then you apply RD to a bunch of schools and you get in, but it turns out that Barnards offer of aid was not that bad afar all, in comparison. Or your family decides they can just suck it up and send you any way.</p>
<p>At that point you CANNOT go back and tell Barnard “never mind, I want to come after all.” </p>
<p>So if you could potentially see this happening to you, don’t apply ED. Also, if you are on the “cusp” as far as stats for students admitted to Barnard, don’t assume ED gives you some kind of advantage. It’s just not reasonable to assume that a selective school like Barnard would accept someone ED that is on the low end of the range, when they have lost of RD students to look at…</p>
<p>Just my two cents (or three, or four).</p>
<p>Thank you, amurd. I think I will pursue ED. Barnard is the biggest dream of mine and I would much rather know earlier than later if I had been accepted. </p>
<p>Churchmusicmom, I don’t see that situation happening to me. If Barnard were to just give me enough aid so that the tuition there would be similar to the tuition to the state universities here in California, I would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Barnard. If push comes to shove however, I would be satisfied going to a UC. My uw GPA is a 3.76,weighted is a 4.3, and my sat is 2220, I do believe my gpa is bit low for Barnard but I think it’s enough to give me a chance. That’s one of the reasons I want to apply ED- I can reassure them of my interest so that I can have a bit of an advantage despite my average GPA.</p>
<p>
That’s a myth, based on a simply mathematical fallacy and lack of understanding of the college admission process, and cultivated by colleges in an effort to increase their revenues. ED provides a college with the ability to fill roughly 40% of its class with full-pay or near full-pay students. They know that smart students who truly need financial aid will not forego the opportunity to compare offers. Barnard does not have a financial aid budget large enough to meet full need of its students in a completely open, need-blind admission process – so ED pulls in a wealthier applicant pool. </p>
<p>No college admissions professional will tie up spaces in its incoming class with students who are weaker than typical of the RD pool, so ED only favors students who either have stronger stats than average for the RD pool, or have some sort of hook. The most significant hooks for ED are being a recruited athlete (Barnard is the only LAC that participates in Ivy League athletics, so there can be some serious recruiting going on for some sports); or “development” case, meaning the parents are extremely wealthy and likely to done big bucks to the college if their daughter gets accepted. </p>
<p>If you have weaker stats than average for the RD pool and no particular hook, then ED just means you get rejected sooner. ED is a smaller pool of generally stronger students; the admissions committee picks from the top of the ED pool, not the bottom, and turn down more students than they admit.</p>
<p>
Barnard gives need-based aid only, no merit aid. They do not and cannot give you a final award until the spring, after all your documentation is in. All they can do is give you an estimate, but that can change if your parents financial circumstances are different than they expected – for example, if a parent gets an unexpected end-of-year bonus at work, that will show up on the tax returns and result in a higher than anticipated EFC. </p>
<p>If you are admitted ED, you will receive an estimated financial aid award, but it will not be the final award. It may end up staying the same – but the point is that (a) if you accept your spot, and things change between December and April, you won’t have any thing to fall back on, unlike the RD students who are likely to have quite a few options; and (b) you won’t have any basis for comparison-- your parents may decide that a financial aid package is unreasonable and you will have to turn down Barnard, and then find out in the spring that no other college is offering you anything better. In the latter scenario you may end up taking on heavy debt to attend some less desirable college simply because you had unrealistic expectations as to finances in December.</p>
<p>
I don’t think your GPA is a problem… but in general, ED is disadvantageous to ED applicants because you are asking the ad com to make a decision without seeing your fall semester senior year grades. For a student with a solid record of A’s from grades 9-11 – no problem – for a student who has a weaker transcript, then you are giving up the one thing you have to potentially strengthen your application.</p>
<p>As you are only a junior I think that you need to wait out the year and see what your grades are like at the end of this year. You need to have a very strong 11th grade year, both in terms of courses completed and overall GPA, to even think about applying ED. (That goes for everyone).</p>
<p>Just my $.02: My freshman and sophomore years were mediocre, my SAT scores were only a bit above Barnard’s average (I got a 2100, including a 600 in math, and my SAT IIs were a 640 and a 700…those might’ve had something to do with the fact that I didn’t study and went to a party the night before I took them), and I took on-level math/science courses. However, my grades skyrocketed junior year, I had a 94 average for the first marking period of senior year, and my ECs were really good. I got in ED.</p>
<p>Also, regarding the financial aid situation, I just got my aid package and my parents were absolutely shocked by how good it was - I only have a couple thousand in work study/loans and my EFC is around the same as it would be if I went to Penn State. Take that as you will.</p>
<p>jrm – I’m glad you have a financial aid award you are happy with.</p>
<p>beatifulmind: keep in mind that everyone’s situation is different. My daughter also received a financial aid award from Barnard that seemed very generous in comparison to other colleges, but the financial aid offers from UCSF and UC Santa Barbara would have been much easier for us. I had to borrow the difference – I was willing to do so because of the perceived quality of the education – but I would not have been able to make that choice without seeing all the options. It wasn’t my daughter’s money, for the most part – it was mine. </p>
<p>Over the years on CC I have received PM’s from students who are unhappy with their financial awards from Barnard --they write me to try to find out what I did to get good aid for my daughter, or ask how to “appeal” or negotiate – but the bottom line is that everyone’s financial situation is different. It is a huge mistake to make financial decisions based on what happened to someone else, when you have no knowledge whatsoever of the details of their finances. </p>
<p>Where are your parents in all of this? If find it rather frustrating to see a 17 year old kid being so cavalier with her parents’ money – it seems that the decision on whether or not to apply ED is one that should be made only with the parents’ full understanding and approval of what that entails.</p>
<p>If my kid wanted to me to buy a car for her – and I was willing – I would want to shop around. I wouldn’t just tell her to pick the car she wanted and pay whatever the dealer asked. The difference between college and a car is that college is far more expensive – so there is even more of a need to weigh and compare options.</p>
<p>I am a parent and my daughter would love to attend Barnard. My daughter did not apply ED because of concerns about the amount of financial aid that might be awarded. She will now be applying RA. I am still concerned about the amount of aid Barnard might award, but at least now we will be able to compare awards. There is also a possibility that Barnard might increase its award in response to a better award by a comparable college. I think this provides her with her best opportunity to attend Barnard as I do not believe that applying early increases the chances of acceptance, at least not for someone like my daughter.</p>
<p>
They won’t. You can also not “appeal” a financial aid award, either ED or RD, based on any sort of information that would be outside their normal aid formula. You can get an award increased if you can point out facts relevant to the FAFSA or Profile calculations, or something that might fit within the exercise of professional judgment. One advantage of being able to compare awards with other colleges is that it can be a way of learning about the existence of such facts – it could be issues that you hadn’t considered would apply to your situation. To get that information you might need to contact the financial aid departments of respective colleges to learn how they determined the award.</p>
<p>Calmom-
The net price calculator for Barnard is much higher for us than most of the other colleges our daughter is considering. I am pretty sure that this is due to their treatment of home equity (they apparently do not limit their consideration of it and it is our only significant asset). I have heard that some colleges will sometimes match financial awards from comparable colleges. Are you saying that Barnard has a policy against doing so?</p>
<p>Barnard does not “match” awards. They are extremely formulaic. You can get a more favorable award if you can show them some fact that would change the numbers going into the formula – for example, a recent appraisal showing that your house is worth less than they think it is. </p>
<p>Did the net price calculator tell you how to determine your home value? When my d. was at Barnard, they used the federal housing index multiplier to calculate value, which resulted in valuation of my home well below the appraised market value. If you have substantial home equity, it is likely you have lived in your home for some time, and that could result in a figure more favorable than the number you entered.</p>
<p>After reading [6</a> Ugly Tricks Financial Aid Offices Use](<a href=“http://puddingicecream.hubpages.com/hub/Ugly-Tricks-Financial-Aid-Offices-Use]6”>http://puddingicecream.hubpages.com/hub/Ugly-Tricks-Financial-Aid-Offices-Use) I was kinda worried about the financial aid at Barnard. To be honest, Barnard’s financial aid is reasonable but you might get a much better offer at another school (some of the girls my year got much better offers from schools such as Columbia University) but then again, it depends on if you can actually get in. </p>
<p>calmom is right in that Barnard doesn’t “match” awards but this girl my year applied ED and got a horrible financial aid package. So she had to talk to the folks at Barnard’s financial aid office because they made a mistake so this goes to show that you shouldn’t be afraid to do ED if Barnard’s what you really want because the package might be doable or adjustable, but maybe not the best offer.</p>
<p>And to clarify, I know first-hand from my close friends that Barnard DOES give merit-based aid. This is often not publicized.</p>
<p>And the gpa 3.73 uw is fine - most of those girls are in the A minus range but that’s not to say that you’re set if you’re in that range or above.</p>