ED and Financial Aid

Parents Forum
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<p>Life is full of trade-offs. Would that it were not so.</p>

<p>I know of several kids who applied to their dream school ED; applied for aid; were satisfied with the package and then due to changing circumstances had to renegotiate the aid package. You don't give up your ability to ask the school to reconsider the package when you apply ED, you just give up your ability to fax them a "competing offer" and see if they bite. I know of no instance where a parental illness, job loss, unusual business damages, etc. didn't result in a thoughtful review of the numbers and in most cases a revision upwards. You always have the option of requesting a review given new information.... it's just the ability to try and pressure the school "well if you don't change the self-help component to a grant kid will go to school X instead of to your school" that goes away.</p>

<p>For many folks who get aid, they can live with that. My neighbors kid is at Princeton-- he applied early and was accepted, and they said that his package was within $100 of what their online aid calculator said that he'd get. So-- to them, since the package was doable (although certainly not as attractive as another private school where he'd been assured of something close to a free ride with merit aid) they went ahead with it and don't regret it.</p>

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<p>There is a poster, can't remember the name, whose S wanted to apply to Columbia ED. They knew they'd need aid. They met ahead of time with Columbia FA, were satisfied they'd be treated fairly, and he went ahead and applied. He was accepted and did indeed get a fair package. Again, yes he would most certainly have gotten more merit aid elsewhere, but they made the choice that worked for them.</p>

23

<p>Garland,</p>

<p>I think you are talking about columbiamom and her so's experience in the ED process.</p>

<p>I read some of these posting and I am shocked at hearing about some kids file ED , get the FA package, then take the package to their parents who then tell them that they can't afford or are not willing to pay for the education. Some of them are the same kids who may call us over involved as their parents let them make all of the choices.<br>
While the choice of what school to attend belongs to the student, the financing of the education belongs to the parent. </p>

<p>I think that there is also a problem in the fact that some families do not take the time to educate themselves on the fa process and do not carefully review the FA policies at different schools. Yes, it is a fact all FA is not created equally even when a school says they will meet 100% of your demonstrated need. As Carloyn stated one school could give you a package heavy on loans, another may give you a package heavy on grants but both schools have met 100% of your demonstrated need. </p>

<p>Things that parents need to keep in mind:</p>

<p>Yes, you may "look good on paper" but you are cash poor, but if you are sitting on almost 1 million in home equity, the school will consider you able to pay full freight.</p>

<p>You may have the ex-spouse from hell that you don't ever want to speak to in life, but guess what the college thinks that the two of you , despite your differences are responsible for paying for your kids education and are the first people that the college looks to.</p>

<p>I know that we don't like to involve our kids in the gritty details of our finances, but we do have to seriously sit down with them perhaps even run the numbers with them so they can see for themselves, where you stand as a family in the FA process.</p>

<p>Tell them up front what we can afford and are willing to pay, beg, or borrow. If this number is "written in stone" make sure that your child knows it and getting in to the ivy of his/her dreams with a sticker price that you cannot afford isn't going to change it.</p>

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<p>Sybbie, agreed, absolutely. My point is that there some families who do educate themselves, understand the ranges, look at the worst-case scenario, and say ok, so be it. We'll brace for that, celebrate if it should be better. Certainly there should be much communication and research done by all parties ahead of time.</p>

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<p>"I know of several kids who applied to their dream school ED; applied for aid; were satisfied with the package and then due to changing circumstances had to renegotiate the aid package."</p>

<p>While that might be true, I think it is wise to repeat that one should NOT believe that the original ED financial aid is the starting point for negotiations. There is a difference between clarifying one's situation and have wild expectations. For instance, short of very unusual circumstances, anyone believing that a school will come up with a better need-based aid than the FAFSA estimate ought to check what he puts in his pipe. Anyone with rental properties or self-employment income who expects that the 100% of his unmet need will NOT change from the FAFSA estimate is also dreaming. </p>

<p>From my vantage point, people who are complaining after the fact did not pay sufficient attention to the available information. The ostrich-like attitude of burying his head in the sand and hope for the best does not really apply. </p>

<p>The same can be said for people who display a veiled image of envy. A number of people love to present the process of college admission as blatantly unfair and look for any reason to explain any possible rejection. Rather than focusing on the hyper-selectivity of schools or the single digit acceptances, they seem to feel better after pointing a doubting finger at ED/EA applicants, URM, athletes, musicians, or other development cases. Behind every admission, there is a very valid reason that may not be apparent to the outsiders. Even if such type of reaction is understandable on a human level, it does not make it right. </p>

<p>No matter the form it takes, I always resent the posts that openly question the relative merits of a certain sub-group. To use a bad cliche, the grass is always greener on the neighbor's side. Most outsiders fail to understand that students are evaluated in the context of their true peers. Juan Gonzalez of El Paso is not compared to John Tudor Wellington III of Rye. That does not make it any easier for either candidate as the bar and expectations is set at different levels. </p>

<p>In the end, it is the cynical and repeated claim of blatant unfairness that is ... unfair to the successful applicant.</p>

26

<p>Where in the IM questions does one place the information about sibling tuition? I'm in that situation and haven't ever noticed that. Your advice would be greatly appreciated.</p>

27

<p>D didn't apply ED- but after 9/11 freshman year- her dad was laid off and then was rehired in a lower ranked job. Only when we had received the new pay stub indicating the lower pay scale and the layoff notice, was the school able to reevaluate the aid package.
They will adjust, but they need documentation of new circumstances, not just your statement that they must be smoking something to come up with your EFC ;)</p>

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<p>Z-Mom, check the last page of this pamphlet:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/prof/counselors/pay/profile-application-instructions.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/prof/counselors/pay/profile-application-instructions.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Section M—Dependent Family
Member Listing
60. Be sure to complete all parts of this question, giving the
information asked for about each family member reported in question
1 or 27 except the student's parents, who give information in Section
N. If there are more than eight family members (including the student and
parents), list first those who will be in school or college at least half-time.
List the others in Section P. If information is reported in both 2 and 27, give
information first about the members of the parents’ household, followed by
information about members of the student’s household. Be sure to include
the age and relationship code for each family member. In the 2005-06
school year section, enter the name of each school for each family member
attending school, including a private preschool, a public or private elementary
or secondary school, or a college or graduate school.</p>

<p>When completing the 2005-06 Parent's Contribution Field, give the best
estimate of the amount of money you paid or will pay toward 2005-06 school
or college expenses, including tuition and fees, books and supplies, room and
board, transportation, and personal expenses. Don't include amounts you plan
to withdraw from Section 529 prepaid tuition plans.</p>

<p>In the 2006-07 College or University Type box, choose the type of college or
university each family member will attend from the drop-down list.</p>

<p>Section Q—Supplemental Information
Section Q, if included, contains additional questions required by one or
more of your colleges and programs. At the end of the section is a list of the
colleges and programs that requested them and the question codes each
requested. We will report the answers to the questions in this section only to
the colleges and programs that requested them. Any specific questions about
how these questions should be answered, or the way this information will be
used, should be directed to the college or program requesting this information.</p>

<p>The exact amount of tuition paid for siblings will probably be asked through a supplemental verification process. Be prepared to send a copy of the bill.</p>

29

<p>Xiggi, that was my point-- ED doesn't allow you to go back and whine; it does allow you to add new information, clarify a point upon which reasonable people can disagree, or request a review in subsequent years when your situation changes, i.e. elderly parent moves in requiring a move to part-time employment by one of the parents. I don't see that as negotiating.... the schools invite reasonable dialogue.</p>

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<p>Thank you so very much for taking the time to post that.</p>

31

<p>If you think I am whining I am not. I am stating that because of financial circimstances, students with money have the advantage over EQUALLY OR MORE QUALFIED students that need to do the RD pool becuase of finances. It is not envy. It is saying that if you have money, you have the chance to apply earlier in a smaller pool of people. That is just statistics. If you are in a pool that takes 30% of applicants as opposed to 10%, and the pool you are in probably has more people in the same finanicial circumstances to having the money to pay straight up, those with money have an advantage even though them are NOT MORE QUALIFIED than many in the RD pool.</p>

<p>Read some of the posts in other threads. They back me up. Unfair, maybe,/ Reality. Yes</p>

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<p>As for questioning the merits of a certain sub group- so what, we do that here all the time- athletes, prep school kids, public school kids, minorities, legacies</p>

<p>If there were studies done, and the college probably wouldn't wnat it doen, I would bet that the majority of students accepted ED do not apply for financial aid in the way the RD kids do. Its a bit financial, and to deny that is being naive.</p>

<p>Money talks, we all know it. So to pretend it doesn't cause it might hurt an applicants feelings, well gee, sorry, fif you are financial able to make the ED choice, you take it. Why not? But don't tell me that doesn't effect equally or more qualified students, who in a one-to-one situation might out shine another applicant, but because they can't apply ED due to FA questions, but not allowing them to compete with students with money changes a the pool of students competing.</p>

<p>That is a reality. Reality should be talked about. Why not?</p>

<p>A reality, there have been only 5 black Senators in the history of the United States, two during the reconstruction. That is reality. Not pretty, but true non the less</p>

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<p>By way, we CAN apply ED, due to our financial circumstances, so do not assume anything about someone who questions the system.</p>

<p>Some people care about others, not just themselves and what we can get of ourselves and how we benefit. </p>

<p>Sometimes, people do care about others and how our choices effect them.</p>

<p>But, if people want to assume jealousy, fine, that is their vision of the world and other people. Not mine.</p>

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<p>CGM, you're making a lot of asssumptions-- first, that a student who applies ED is less qualified. Yes, I do take offense at that. </p>

<p>Secondly, that only some people can apply Ed. As I said, I know people in many income brackets who applied ED, including lower and middle income.</p>

<p>Third, that you know who does or who doesn't care about other people. That's a breathtaking generality.</p>

<p>I wish your child best of luck in college admissions. Many people have many reasons to forego ED; it's not for everyone.</p>

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<p>NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Early college applicants may gain an edge during admissions, but their financial aid options can get hurt in the process.</p>

<p>Many schools offer either an early decision or early action admissions option. Both plans allow students to apply early, usually in November, and get an admission decision from their college of choice in December or January -- well ahead of regular admissions decisions which mostly arrive in April.</p>

<p>But since early decision plans are "binding," which means student must agree to attend the school if they are accepted, the best financial aid packages may not go to them.</p>

<p>"Schools will tell you they treat everyone the same, but I suspect that on occasion there are some regular decision applicants who might get a 'sweeter package'", especially if they have special talents and are a hot prospect, said Deborah Schmidt of AdmissionsConsultants.</p>

<p>If your child has been accepted to college early decision, they do have the option to back out of the binding agreement if they aren't offered an adequate financial aid package. But first parents need to figure out exactly what "adequate" means.</p>

<p>Evaluating your aid package
The first step for early applicants is to evaluate the projected aid package they receive with their admission offer to see if it meets their full needs.</p>

<p>Students accepted under early action plans don't have to commit to the school accepting them, so they have the option of weighing financial aid packages from competing colleges. But evaluating the aid award can be tricky for early decision students because they don't have other packages with which to compare.</p>

<p>"You have a consumer decision to make, but you don't have a frame of reference to work with," said Carl Buck, vice president of funding solutions at Thomson Peterson's.</p>

<p>Colleges look at each applicant's financial situation and calculate an "expected family contribution." They then try to make up the difference between the EFC and what it costs to attend that school for a year with aid in the form of grants, scholarships, loans and work-study awards.</p>

<p>Parents will want to consider the composition of the financial aid award, such as the ratio of grants to loans, and make sure it's something they can handle, Schmidt said.</p>

<p>Loans help alleviate the immediate pain of large tuition bills, but they weigh students with debt once they graduate. Grants, on the other hand, don't have to be paid back.</p>

<p>While early decision students don't have the option of comparing offers from other schools, they can still estimate how much aid someone with their financial situation can expect from competing schools, said Sandy Baum, senior policy analyst at the College Board. Several schools offer online calculators that generate estimated aid packages for students depending on their specific details.</p>

<p>Getting a better deal
If the aid award is considered adequate, then students are ready to move forward and attend their top choice college. But when the package doesn't meet expectations, there are still options available.</p>

<p>Call the financial aid office of the college offering the award, Buck suggested. Schools don't always do the best job explaining the financial aid award, so it's important for parents to communicate where the aid award isn't meeting full need.</p>

<p>Packages can be revised if a student misestimates his or her situation or if there are changes to their financial circumstances, such as if a parent loses a job. The projected aid awards offered to early decision students are based on estimated 2005 income, Baum said. Students need to submit their final financial information for 2005 when the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, or FAFSA -- a government form that students must fill out for federal aid -- is made available on Jan. 1.</p>

<h2>If the award doesn't meet full need, students can back out of the binding agreement -- and it won't work against them. They can reapply under regular decision and hope for a better financial aid package as well as apply to other schools. This is really a last resort, though, and in keeping with the ethics of the admissions process, students should only choose this option when the package truly doesn't meet their needs, Schmidt said.</h2>

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<p>This from Wake Forest</p>

<p>If students believe it would be advantageous to compare financial aid packages from several schools or await decisions concerning merit scholarships, they would be advised to apply during the regular admissions cycle. All applicants should be aware that Early Decision is a binding commitment on the part of the university and the student, and the student is expected to honor that commitment.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.petersons.com/common/article.asp?id=465&path=ug.gs.advice&sponsor=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.petersons.com/common/article.asp?id=465&path=ug.gs.advice&sponsor=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and this from the Stanford Paper
"This year, the pool of 4,503 was very diverse. The regular applicant pool, which is usually around 20,000, however, tends to be even more diverse. A number of factors contribute to this, including those students who choose to apply during the regular cycle because of financial aid."</p>

<p>Dartmouth Paper
Dartmouth received 1,317 Early Decision applications this fall, a 12 percent increase over last year's 1,180 and an important trend reversal against last year's lull in applications. Every Ivy League school received fewer early applications in 2004 than in 2003, which had some college officials worried. This year, however, every Ivy League school -- with the exception of Harvard University -- experienced an increase in applications, from Columbia's 3.5 percent to the University of Pennsylvania's 21 percent jump.</p>

<p>"There was so much discussion about Early Decision and its downsides, and people were much more cautious [last year]," Dean Furstenberg said.</p>

<p>Early applications received an explosion of popularity when rumors of easier acceptances inspired many students to apply early in recent years. Many parents and high school counselors began to discourage applying early, however, especially after realizing that students who apply to binding schools are required to attend no matter what financial aid package they receive. In 2002, Yale University and Stanford University switched from binding Early Decision to non-restrictive single-choice Early Action policies that allow students to apply to other schools after being accepted."-Early decisions accept 30 percent of applicants</p>

<p>So even counselors are telling students that are qualified equally with students of means to NOT APPLY EARLY because of fin aid packages...hmm</p>

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<p>Those who do opt out of their Early Decision contract are released to pursue lower-cost school options, such as state schools and/or schools that award merit aid. The admission offer to Columbia is then cancelled. A candidate who withdraws from Columbia’s Early Decision offer will not be allowed to reconsider Columbia’s financial aid estimate in the spring Regular Decision cycle, and will not be able to reinstate the original offer of admission."</p>

<p>The devil is in the details. (thanks xggi)</p>

39

<p>The fact that students who need financial aid are better off applying EA or RD does not mean that those who are admitted ED and do not need financial aid are less qualified--which is the implication. This is totally faulty logic. In fact, a case could be made (also using flawed logic) that the students whose families are financially well off are better prepared for college. SAT scores, after all, correlate most closely with SES. For every student who needs to compare financial aid packages, there is a private school applicant feeling that s/he is being shut out of top schools because they do not want to admit too many students from the same background.</p>

<p>For the record, S1 did not apply ED or EA because he wanted to have more time to decide which college to apply to. S2 applied EA because he had a residual concern that he might change his mind (he did not) and the college which was his #1 choice happened to be SCEA.
I paid/am paying full fare for both and never considered their applying for financial aid or even merit scholarships.</p>

40

<p>CGM--None of that argues with anything i've said:</p>

<p>Yes, you don't get to compare packages, but many people choose to go with whatever the package they get from the ED school, rather than compare, because it's the one they want.</p>

<p>The fact that others would rather compare packages and pick the school which offers the best money doesn't mean they have to; packages at full need schools are not going to be substantially different.</p>

<p>One reason that I think that ED demographics is skewed is that most students at non-elite high schools don't even know ED exists--at our hs, for instance, it's almost unknown. But those who do choose it are from a very wide demographic. At wealthier schools, it's viewed as a strategy, so many more students from these schools use it. I definitely agreet that the hs my kids went to should get better informed on these issues.</p>

<p>Again, I point to columbiamom's story, whose S needed aid from Columbia to apply ED, was satisfied that he would get it, and did.</p>