ED Binding - What if I don't want to go?

Applying to College
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<p>"Thus, IMO at many colleges using ED, wealthy white, less qualified students, are taking spaces that could go to more qualified students who are less well off." </p>

<p>I would like to refute your statement, northstarmom, about ED being for less qualified students. Many statistics I've read say that ED rates aren't THAT much higher than regular. and as for myself, I applied early not because I needed my stats to be raised, but because I was fed up with the arduous process of college admissions. Now that I've been accepted, I can spend the 2nd semester of my senior year celebrating the past four years and not worrying about which school I am going to.</p>

<p>I would offer as a solution to ED is.. Maybe schools should try to push up the Regular decision letters. The main reason I applied ED (I did love my school, but I had many others that loved too) was that I can't imagine waiting until April to know. The wait would be torture.</p>

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<p>I think Greensleeves 1028 says it all. I know my son insisted on applying ED because he loved the school (but, like Greensleves1028 had others he liked), but also because he wanted to be done with this extremely demanding and pressure filled process. I do not agree with the tone of the young man who questioned his options under binding ED but I think there are many students who are pressured into applying ED because they have been pressured not just this year, but for many years, into securing a spot in a selective college and have been told that ED offers some advantage, regardless of whether or not that is really true when we adults sit down and analyze that data. Years of working hard on courses, grades, ECs, sports, etc. - years of positioning for a spot - not to mention peer and parental pressure - these kids lay their whole identities and souls on the line during this process, much more so than I did when I applied to college 30 years ago - and they are still very young. Last summer and spring we listened to 15 different admissions officers tout their requirements - we like to see you take as many APs as possible, we like to see you take on leadership roles, we like to see people in the top 10% of their classes, etc., etc., etc. We looked at rates of admission, "stats" that were sometimes alarming. It was easy to forget that there is a bottom 25% to the SAT scale - wasn't that for athletes only? We read CC and saw how many kids were rejected with high SATs and great GPAs.....What would the average 16 - 17 yo think? It seemed pretty scary to me - I know he was sweating it. I suppose the students with 1600s and straight As, and their parents, are not as worried but the average or slightly better than average student who has some weaknesses in his/her "resume" is given the message that they have spent many years on a goal that might not be fulfilled. We can all tell our children that they will end up somewhere and that they will be happy and successful regardless of where they go and <em>I</em> believe that is true - but I don't believe that is the message that society or even the admissions officers have sent to our students. No wonder so many students today apply ED. I don't excuse the young man's disrespect but I think the binding nature of ED, necessary to make it work, of course, is not appropriate for most l6 and 17 yo students. And, as someone mentioned, not everyone has parents who sit on CC and offer reasoned or seasoned advice, and certainly many students are not as influenced by parents as by society and peers. ED is for the benefit of the schools, mostly, not the students. That said, my son is very happy with his decision and we are happy that he is happy. Personally, I would have preferred that he apply to a variety of schools but we allowed him to make this choice. Now, he can focus on his other goal of applying ED - to enjoy the remainder of his senior high school year. Last night he played Monopoly with his brother - unbelievable! For the first time in 3.25 years I have seen him relax a bit on a school night. I like Greensleeves solution even though maybe ED gave my son some an advantage (who really knows although he is above the top 75%tile based on SATs) - speed up the RD process and let these kids to have some normalcy.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: I think ED is wrong on several counts. Affirmative action for wealthy people, as you put it, substituting for a declining use of outright legacy admissions. A bonus for those who are on top of the rules of the game, which also cuts heavily in favor of wealth and class. Beyond that, I'm in partial agreement with Rileydog: ED is unfair to the very decision-making processes of volatile young people. (However, RileyDog, the answer to an unfair game isn't to cheat, it's to not play. The ED clauses you sign are very clear...don't like them? Don't sign, don't do it.) I've seen so many students change their minds about not just what college but what kind of college, e.g., LAC vs. large university, or urban vs. rural, etc. that I'm very wary of having students in the beginning of their senior year lock in a life-changing commitment.</p>

<p>However, if a student makes that commitment, they've made it. It's like an 18-year-old signing up with the Army. This spoiled brat "the rules are for other people only" approach will not be sustained.</p>

<p>Greensleeves: waiting? Yes, it's tough. Almost excruciating. Even for very top students as you described. But developing self-discipline is good too. You suck it up and wait.</p>

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<p>so appearntly only white rich people apply ed. come on guys this is ridiculous</p>

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<p>For people who doubt the advantage that wealthy people have in binding ED:</p>

<p>From the Columbia University Spectator Dec. 11, 2004: <a href="http://www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/04/09/4076291b840b9%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/04/09/4076291b840b9&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"It is more than three times harder to be accepted here via regular decision.</p>

<p>While the decrease in Columbia College's admission rate to under 11 percent may well boost its US News & World Report ranking, this statistic points to gross inequities in the admissions game. Once again, early decision applicants, with an approximate 30 percent admission rate, account for nearly half of the class of 2008.</p>

<p>The Columbia admissions web site says that the higher acceptance rate under the early decision program reflects "the remarkable strength of a self-selected applicant pool." While the admissions office does not release a comparison of academic achievement in the early decision and regular decision pool, we can safely assert that any difference in "strength" certainly does not warrant a 300 percent better chance of admission to Columbia. ....</p>

<p>The strategizing of early decision benefits predominantly wealthy applicants who have greater access to advisers and counselors who know the intricacies of the admissions game and the mathematical advantages of applying early. In addition, financially disadvantaged students are less likely to apply early decision. While the system is not technically binding, it presents obstancles to students hoping to compare financial aid packages."</p>

<p>--</p>

<p>From the University of Virginia "Cavalier Daily," Nov. 26, 2002: <a href="http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=14338&pid=943%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=14338&pid=943&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"The University offers financial aid estimates to early decision applicants that want one, but the admissions office itself admits that few applicants capitalize on this offer. An estimate cannot possibly be accurate to the real amount the University will offer. </p>

<p>Without a chance to haggle with the financial aid office, talented and financially strapped students abandon the early decision process to ensure the maximum amount of financial aid. Wealthy applicants do not have to worry about financial aid, so they dominate the early decision applicant pool. </p>

<p>In order to ensure all students have a fair shot at attending the University, the University must either remove the binding early decision policy entirely, or convert the early decision policy into a non-binding early action program. "</p>

<p>--</p>

<p>USA Today, Oct. 31, 2004: <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-11-01-edit_x.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-11-01-edit_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"But in return for early certainty, students trade away their opportunity to weigh multiple acceptance offers and use their senior year to make sure they're choosing the right colleges. They also give up the ability to negotiate financial-aid packages.</p>

<p>No surprise, then, that compared to students applying on the regular schedule, early decision candidates are more likely to be wealthy and come from private schools. They also are less likely to be minorities.</p>

<p>Early decision was pioneered at elite colleges more than 30 years ago to streamline the admissions process for highly qualified, privileged seniors who were sure of the college they wished to attend. But that system, which started out filling roughly10% of a freshman class, has ballooned out of control. Today, some colleges will choose as much as 60% of next fall's class through early decision."</p>

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<p>Nortstarmom is absolutely right about ED programs. I do want to tell you that before things became so crazy that ED was quite simply something for kids who knew what their first college choice was. Pure and simple. In my day, it was used just for that. It was not to get special advantages or anything else. Also in those days, the top schools would just defer anyone who needed financial aid as they understood that such students should be comparing packages. That happened to my brother's best friend, and may have happened to me as well--my ED app went awry, no idea what exactly happened to it, had to reapply from scratch to that school RD. </p>

<p>Nowdays there are a lot of pressures for kids to apply ED as a strategy, a sounding board, for insurance,...any number of reasons that have nothing to do with the school being the student's top choice. At my son's school more than 65% applied early this year. But as NSM brings up, this sort of thing tends to occur in the areas and schools that have the more priviliged children. </p>

<p>One thing I have always resented about ED is the myth that so many colleges have perpetrated. They claim that because the ED pool has much higher calibre students than the RD, the higher percentages of those accepted there are mainly because of the better student. Statistical analyses have shown that this is not true. In my opinion, the single most important thing a student can do to enhance his chances after doing all of the required testtaking, apps, good grades, recs, etc, is getting the complete app, testscores, transcripts and recs to the college AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. Every single year for more than 10 years, my early birds get in at twice the rate and more than the kids who apply later. And I don't just mean applying early. Those who get those apps in within a week or so after they are made available do very well in admissions if they are in the upper statistical ranges for admissions. And it makes perfect sense. Adcoms looking at their first apps of the season who see top test scores, top grades, great recs, wonderful ECs, why the heck are they not going to admit the kid? They are ADMISSION folk, afterall, and that is their mission, to put together a class for new year, and they are eager to get started. But once they are on their 100th app that looks exactly the same as a bunch of the others, they have to start diversifying. Uh, oh, the chem sections are becoming full already when we are just within the first few weeks of admissions; better slow down on those science majors. And we do need some more kids in modern languages even if their stats are not that perfect, and maybe we should watch all of those NY/NJ kids; we do want some geographic diversity. What? No URMS, better start keeping an eye on that. Too many legacies already, and I hear that a bunch of congressmen who are alums have their kids applying as well. The coaches still need to talk to us about their needs. And so on and so on. All of a sudden the 4000 SAT with the years of classical music and flawless recs and essays has become one in a stack, whereas the more unusual apps start to stand out. This is the part of admissions that I have found that Asian families in particular do not comprehend. Your application is compared to all of the other kids accepted prior to your time up at the examination slot, and if you are too much like kids already accepted, even a top profile may not get you an immediate in. You are put aside and then compared with the stack that is so set aside so that the best of that bunch can be accepted. </p>

<p>The college process has become so difficult and stressed for families that Early programs simply end the misery sooner. Who the heck wants to continue the process beyond December? So there are pragmatic reasons for wanting this early response. I am ashamed to say that with older son, now finished with college, I was ready for him to commit early to school that he liked but was hedging, because I was just done with dealing with this issue, and frankly, I did not think it would make that much of a difference where he ended up among clusters of his colleges, and that early possibilty was a good as any, in my book.</p>

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<p>As stated before by many, this process IS hell. I'm the type of student who is in the top 10%, takes all the APs, but isn't in the top 5% percent or anything like that. I'm an above average AP student, if that makes sense. I wish to work in the journalism industry or eventually make my way into the world of writing in some form. What really scared me was that in every one of the biographies of the best people in the field, none of them came from "San diego state". They all came from the elite, well-known schools. As for me.... I've been stressing out about college since the midway through my junior year. Hell, I've been thinking about taking anti-depressants at the rate I've been going. I applied early decision to BU because I visited the campus in August and it just FELT RIGHT. Everything clicked for me their, I felt for the first time in my life that I could fit in somewhere. I find out Wednesday if I'm accepted ED or not.... if I'm not.... then I'm spending my winter break filling out atleast 5-6 more applications to other east coast schools. It's nerve wracking, because if we get rejected, then we've just spent our last four years for what becomes, essentially, nothing.</p>

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<p>TheIntellectual, you have my sympathies. </p>

<p>The <em>only</em> thing I would fault you for is having waited to find out the ED decision before working on your other apps, including essays. Working on the other apps after the ED app goes in helps keep you from putting all your emotional eggs in one basket. It also winds up giving you more time, less stress, working on those apps which in turn helps produce better apps.</p>

<p>Whichever way your ED decision comes out, good luck.</p>

<p>Ian, it would be stupid to say that only rich white people apply to ED. But it's ignorant to not understand that the process is heavily tilted towards certain demographics.
NSM has posted some good links.</p>

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<p>I strongly doubt you'd get accepted to MIT.. but you could always try, of course. If I were you, I'd be a bit more realistic and responsible and stick with your ED school.</p>

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<p>Intellectual:
Some colleges that famous journalists graduated from:
Barbara Walters: Sarah Lawrence
Leonard Pitts (winner, 2004 Pulitzer, commentary) U Southern Cal</p>

<p>Walter Cronkite University of Tex.
Isabel Wilkerson (Pulitzer winner from NY Times articles), Howard University</p>

<p>Dorothy Rabinowitz, 2001 Pulitzer winner, commentary, Wall Street Journal, Queens
College</p>

<p>Rick Bragg, 1996 Pulitzer feature writing, NY Times, Jacksonville State University</p>

<p>Anthony Shadid, 2004 Pulitzer international reporting, Washington Post, University of Wisconsin</p>

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<p>i disagree that ED is evil in making students think theyve gotta apply SOMEWHERE early decision. i am amazed that people dont realize that there are single-choice early action schools that they do not have to commit to. I'm one of those persons, and i did not apply to any ED schools simply because i want to keep my options open. im still not sure whether i want engineering or business. however, i did apply to an SCEA because i wanted the supposed admissions boost SOMEWHERE, and even if there is no boost, at least i get to know in december, to take the pressure off. even if i get in, there are a couple of other schools i will apply to simply to compare FinAid packages. im not a picky person, and so i know id be happy almost anywhere, and so because of this i have no set first-choice. my dream school actually is Stanford, but since im from NJ the distance is an issue. so i have no first choice but i still have options.</p>

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<p>The original purpose of ED was just fine, but the whole early thing has blown up into stress causers. Not just ED but EA. Many schools where so many of the students apply early have an atmosphere you can cut with a knife around this time of the year. I always now recommend a few schools as safeties with rolling and/or early feedback, because it is really tough when you are in that environment without something in your pocket. And it is getting worse now with ED2 and Interim Decision and more rolling programs. The stress just continues through the year. When I applied to college, you basically got your apps and stuff out by the end of the year and then forgot about the whole thing until April when the news came rolling in. Very few kids applied early. Some kids may have heard earlier than others who applied to the state or local schools but for some reason I don't really remember much about all of that. </p>

<p>It's great for those who get into their first choice schools or at least get a school in their pockets but it causes a lot of stress that just was not there for others. It really accelerates the process.</p>

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<p>So our choices are - abolish ED and everyone find out in April; abolish ED, but move the RD acceptances up a month or two, or change ED to universal SCEA.
I have a little different take on this - I think colleges do ED for the same reason they structure anything else in admissions in the manner they do - it is good for them. That it indirectly benefits the wealthy, I don't think is deliberate, other than they need a base number of paying customers to keep from draining the endowment. It is unfortunate, and as NSM stated, but no one picked up on, it probably hurts middle income white kids most of all.
A thought, if schools weren't worried about yield, rankings, and maybe finances, could SCEA spread throughout the system?</p>

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<p>People who withdraw from ED acceptances (for indecision, not financial/familial circumstances) should be required to write apologies to all those who were deferred or rejected during the ED round for needlessly stealing one of the spots.</p>

<p>I've got my fingers crossed that not playing the ED-advantage strategy will still work for me. The more the ED/EA results come in, though, the more I bite my lip with regret.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the list of journalists... I guess it's not the "my carreer is over before it began" fear. It's more that college is the first part of my life that I have a modicrum of control over. This is it, this is where my life's biography begins. </p>

<p>As for ED, I think that if used properly, it's great. I think that for people like me, who DO put their emotional eggs in one basket, who will go to this school regardless of other conditions, ED is a godsend.</p>

<p>I have filled out other applications.... for the UCali and CalStates. Even then though... it felt like I was "failing" myself if I don't get into BU. I don't think I would be nearly as bad if I hadn't visited the campus and fallen in love with Boston.</p>

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<p>TheIntellectual, I spent five days in Boston after dropping D off at Smith and it is an absolutely fabulous town and I can see why you want to go there. But is there no other attractive choice between BU and the UC's/CalState's?</p>

<p>WillyW, we were talking about this over dinner tonight with another couple. UCLA actually has impacted <em>classes</em> that you are not permitted to drop if you enroll. Not permitted because you are screwing other students who would have loved to have had that space.</p>

<p>This whole Ignoring ED Commitment thing is like driving on the shoulder of the freeway because you don't want to be stuck in the traffic jam. (Image may only work in LA...I dunno.)</p>

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<p>Thanks TheDad, and as for if their are other schools that look attractive.... well yes, but I'm acting in a rather blind manner when it comes to choosing colleges. Picking up one of those insider college books means nothing once you actually visit the campus and realize how much the books DON'T tell you. I was all set to go to American Uni, until I visited the school and realized that it really didn't work for what I wanted out of a school. Other choices.... Geoge washington, george mason, Tufts. Not too many to choose from and I guess there's the subconscious domino effect going on in my mind as well. "If I don't get into Bu, and their standards are like GWs, then I won't get into Gw and if I don't....." </p>

<p>Anyone else know of any URBAN area campuses that are on the east coast? Thanks!</p>

<p>This college admissions process needs some major reform, bad.</p>

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<p>TheIntellectual,
Here is another list of famous journalist from not-so-elite schools...</p>

<p>Jay Matthews, a Harvard grad and Washington Post staff writer, wrote the following in his column "Better than Famous" (April 8, 2001):
"Perhaps Ivies once ran the Post newsroom, but not anymore. Here are the alma maters of the paper's top editors in roughly descending order of influence: Ohio State, Occidental, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, State University of New York at Buffalo, Colorado State, Harvard, Michigan, American and Florida. The Occidental alum, managing editor Steve Coll, arrived there 13 years after I left, but stayed, graduated, and has had a successful career without benefit of the Ivy League..."</p>

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<p>For what its worth, applying ED has an unexpected side benefit for my s. last year. He chose ED because, after a very detailed search and visit of many (13) schools, he too found the one that absolutely "felt right" and wanted to apply ED, choosing it over the ivies. We know he would get some National Merit aid, and fortunately the school he chose was a reasonable (comparatively), mangeable cost. He also won several small scholarships outside of the school. At any rate, he heard in early December and was done. Then, in January , my mother became gravely ill and was hospitalized on life support for 5 weeks before passing away in early March. This required multiple flights to the NE from our home in the S. after each of her 3 surgeries, and painful waits as she lingered after each one. This was a very difficult time for all of us, and my s. missed a lot of school during this time. It was not only a blessing that he didn't have to worry about getting any last minute college application stuff taken care of, but we are all comforted by the fact that my mother knew where my s. was going to college, and was proud of, and thrilled for him. That brings us all a good deal of solace. This does not mean that ED is right for everyone, but it certainly was a blessing for us.</p>

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<p>TheDad, i got your similie, in ny when it pouring rain, normaly thier are 2 lanes, it becomes 4, with some of the crappiest roads in the world</p>